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ICP vs. ICS: The Better Targeting Framework ft. Utkarsh Rana
In this episode, I sit down with Utkarsh Rana, Head of GTM at C17, one of the top lead generation and outbound agencies in the world.
Utkarsh shares the agency's sophisticated approach to automated lead generation using Trigify for intent-based prospecting, generating 6,000 qualified leads per week on autopilot through webhook integrations with Clay tables that handle verification, enrichment, and multi-channel sequencing. We dive deep into the critical distinction between ICP (Ideal Customer Profile) and ICS (Ideal Customer Situation), with Utkarsh explaining why most replies come from situation-based targeting rather than demographic profiles alone. He reveals C17's strategy for reaching enterprise accounts, maintaining low contact limits (maximum 3 people per company), ensuring every email is AI-personalized, and scaling infrastructure with numerous mailboxes to avoid spam filters. We explore his philosophy on AI tools in outbound, where he argues the industry needs to focus less on adopting every new AI tool and more on fundamentals: better offers, superior targeting, and higher volume.
Enjoy 🙂
(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards
(00:26) What C17 Does: Lead Gen Agency & Clay Partner
(00:54) Alex Hormozi Campaign: 1.7M Emails in 4 Weeks
(02:51) The Trigify System: 6K Leads Per Week on Autopilot
(04:23) Expanding by Account: Finding More Contacts from Valid Companies
(05:28) Miro & WNBA Success: Enterprise Outbound Strategy
(07:03) Utkarsh's Journey: Customer Support to Clay Expert to C17
(09:22) How Clay Changed Everything: Personalization at Scale
(10:29) ICS vs ICP: Ideal Customer Situation Framework
(11:47) Future of Outbound: Less AI Tools, More Fundamentals
(13:38) Goals: Cracking Staffing, Scaling GTM, Japan Trip
🔗 CONNECT WITH UTKARSH
👥 LinkedIn
💻 Website
🎥 YouTube
🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV
🎥 YouTube Channel
🐦 X (Twitter)
💻 Website
👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - [email protected]
🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW
If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)
👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH
You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.
View all episodes
By Saurav GuptaIn this episode, I sit down with Utkarsh Rana, Head of GTM at C17, one of the top lead generation and outbound agencies in the world.
Utkarsh shares the agency's sophisticated approach to automated lead generation using Trigify for intent-based prospecting, generating 6,000 qualified leads per week on autopilot through webhook integrations with Clay tables that handle verification, enrichment, and multi-channel sequencing. We dive deep into the critical distinction between ICP (Ideal Customer Profile) and ICS (Ideal Customer Situation), with Utkarsh explaining why most replies come from situation-based targeting rather than demographic profiles alone. He reveals C17's strategy for reaching enterprise accounts, maintaining low contact limits (maximum 3 people per company), ensuring every email is AI-personalized, and scaling infrastructure with numerous mailboxes to avoid spam filters. We explore his philosophy on AI tools in outbound, where he argues the industry needs to focus less on adopting every new AI tool and more on fundamentals: better offers, superior targeting, and higher volume.
Enjoy 🙂
(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards
(00:26) What C17 Does: Lead Gen Agency & Clay Partner
(00:54) Alex Hormozi Campaign: 1.7M Emails in 4 Weeks
(02:51) The Trigify System: 6K Leads Per Week on Autopilot
(04:23) Expanding by Account: Finding More Contacts from Valid Companies
(05:28) Miro & WNBA Success: Enterprise Outbound Strategy
(07:03) Utkarsh's Journey: Customer Support to Clay Expert to C17
(09:22) How Clay Changed Everything: Personalization at Scale
(10:29) ICS vs ICP: Ideal Customer Situation Framework
(11:47) Future of Outbound: Less AI Tools, More Fundamentals
(13:38) Goals: Cracking Staffing, Scaling GTM, Japan Trip
🔗 CONNECT WITH UTKARSH
👥 LinkedIn
💻 Website
🎥 YouTube
🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV
🎥 YouTube Channel
🐦 X (Twitter)
💻 Website
👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - [email protected]
🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW
If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)
👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH
You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.