In this intellectually rich and historically grounded episode of In Layman Terms, I sit down with Pastor Justin McMahan of Living Water Fellowship Church in Tillamook, Oregon. With a background spanning business, politics, community service, and ministry, Pastor Justin brings a multidimensional perspective to one of the most pressing questions of our time: Can a secular society truly sustain itself—or does the West need God to thrive?

We explore the recent Charlie Kirk memorial and whether it crossed the line between church and state, unpack the rise of Christian nationalism, and reflect on the original intent behind the separation of church and state.

Pastor Justin shares insights from his current sermon series, Church Hurt, available now on YouTube, and reminds us that Christianity’s mission is about hearts and souls—not just political victories. While acknowledging the harm done when faith is weaponized, we also consider the historical pattern: civilizations that drift from their spiritual foundations often falter.

Visit LivingWaterCoast.com to learn more about Pastor Justin’s ministry and messages.