Mid-size law firms are getting squeezed from both ends. Big law has the capital to invest in AI and the salaries to attract top talent. Boutiques can specialize tightly and move fast. So where does that leave everyone in the middle?

Melanie Chaney, firm-wide managing partner of Liebert Cassidy Whitmore, has a front-row seat to that question. LCW has grown from 45 attorneys to 120 over the past two decades, and Chaney — just a few months into her tenure leading the firm — is candid about the challenges that come with that position in the market: recruitment, AI costs, and figuring out how junior attorneys develop their skills when the tasks they used to learn on are being automated away.

In this episode of In the Counsel's Chair, she makes the case that mid-size firms still have a real value proposition — but that a long track record is no excuse to stop innovating.

About Melanie: Melanie L. Chaney is the Firm-wide Managing Partner of Liebert Cassidy Whitmore, California’s leading education, public sector, nonprofit, and labor & employment law firm serving public agencies, educational institutions, and nonprofits. She brings decades of experience advising cities, school districts, and public safety departments on complex and high-stakes labor relations matters. Her practice includes collective bargaining under the MMBA and EERA, handling labor disputes before the California Public Employment Relations Board, and representing public entities in employment litigation in state and federal court. She also conducts workplace investigations, counsels agencies on personnel policies, and regularly provides training on labor and employment issues.

When Jason de Bretteville's client refused to take the easy off-ramp -- a dismissal that would have let everyone walk away quietly -- it set the stage for a sanctions ruling that may finally put teeth into a 30-year-old law. The court was blunt: widespread practice doesn't make a practice acceptable.

Jason is a partner at Stradling Yocca Carlson & Rauth LLP, Chair of the firm's Litigation Department and Co-Chair of its Enforcement Defense and Investigations Practice. In this episode of In the Counsel's Chair, he walks through the case that produced what may be the first-ever sanctions ruling against a plaintiff for filing a bare-bones placeholder complaint in a securities fraud class action -- and what it could mean for how the plaintiff's bar operates going forward.

Jason also explains the structural reasons this practice has persisted for three decades despite the PSLRA, what it would take for defense lawyers to routinely push back, and how AI is shifting the calculus for smaller firms competing against larger ones.

About Jason: Jason de Bretteville defends companies, financial institutions and executives in high-stakes civil and criminal litigation matters. When other legal teams see hurdles and complications or say it simply cannot be done, Jason finds the evidence and arguments that win. He is a tenacious litigator whose deep industry and regulatory experience, knowledge of the courts and ability to connect with judges and juries have earned him a reputation as a serious trial threat.

Jason served as an assistant U.S. attorney in the Central District of California from 2001 through 2006. As a prosecutor, he tried seven felony cases to verdict, investigated and prosecuted significant crimes of violence and fraud, supervised teams of federal agents engaged in the detection and prevention of terrorist activity, and briefed and argued numerous cases before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit.

Jason has secured favorable settlements and trial and appellate victories for clients facing civil and criminal allegations relating to securities fraud, white-collar crime and abuses of the False Claims Act and the FCP. He also has represented medical device companies, hedge funds, private equity firms, investment banks, technology companies, consumer goods manufacturers, oil and gas concerns, and other companies in a wide variety of complex business disputes. When he is not litigating, he helps his clients optimize their compliance programs and navigate pre-litigation securities matters to minimize potential liability.

When Yakub Hazzard's team discovered that opposing counsel had improperly kept a privileged memo in a high-stakes Motown royalties case, it became a turning point. "That was like the game changing moment in the litigation where it went from the plaintiff seeming to have a lot of momentum to them being completely on their heels."

Now Chair of Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp, Yakub shares three cases from a long career that taught him essential lessons about entertainment litigation. From representing Berry Gordy and Motown in a dispute with legendary songwriting trio Holland-Dozier-Holland, to achieving one of the few published 9th Circuit decisions on copyright termination in a case involving the Ray Charles Foundation, these cases reveal what it takes to navigate high-stakes entertainment disputes.

Yakub also explains his early career moves, what it takes to represent elite clients effectively, and his concerns about the future of the entertainment industry and attorneys given the rise of artificial intelligence.

About Yakub: Yakub Hazzard is the Chair of Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp and former Co-Chair of the Litigation Practice Group. Mr. Hazzard specializes in litigating high-profile matters involving intellectual property, right of publicity, privacy, breach of contract, profit participation, commercial disputes, and other media & entertainment-related conflicts across a wide range of industries. He has also handled employment litigation matters for clients.

Vid Prabhakaran has a clear belief about AI in law: "We don't believe that AI is going to replace lawyers, but we do believe that lawyers who use AI in a sophisticated way are going to replace lawyers who don't." And when he hears partners argue that associates need drudgery work because it's foundational to their future success, he's blunt: "I think they're full of it."

As partner-in-charge of Davis Wright Tremaine's San Francisco office, Vid is navigating three major shifts: AI's impact on legal billing models, political attacks on DEI, and California's climate leadership in the absence of federal direction.

In this conversation, Vid explains how he's using AI to eliminate associate drudgery and refocus their work on strategic analysis—and why this shift will force law firms toward value-based pricing. He also shares how he's protecting inclusion programs amid political attacks, why his energy clients care more about regulatory certainty than climate politics, and what's at stake in California's climate disclosure battle. Plus: why data centers represent the energy industry's biggest wild card.

About Vid: Vidhya Prabhakaran is a veteran energy lawyer and the San Francisco partner-in-charge at Davis Wright Tremaine. He helps clients navigate regulatory complexities as California transitions to economically viable greener power sources. Vid advocates for companies throughout the industry who envision an efficient and reliable energy marketplace and seek to successfully invest in the state’s energy future. He has particular expertise representing clients before the California Public Utilities Commission and helping them achieve successful outcomes when trying to work with or around the large investor-owned utilities.

Vid has a long record of public service and commitment to social impact. Through constant mentoring and networking, he has helped sustain pipeline programs, boosted the ranks of diverse judges, and established pro bono partnerships with leading clients. His extensive list of honors includes the National Asian Pacific American Bar Association's "Best Under 40" award, South Asian Bar Association of Northern California's Mentorship Award, the Minority Bar Coalition's Unity Award, and the Pro Bono Leadership Award from Legal Services for Children.

He has served as president of multiple organizations, including the Bar Association of San Francisco, the South Asian Bar Association of Northern California, the Yale Club of Northern California, and the California Conference of Public Utilities Counsel. He is the current president of the Energy Bar Association – Western Chapter.

In this episode of In the Counsel's Chair, Kristina Lawson offers a roadmap for attorneys considering a leap into public service — and explains why more lawyers should be willing to make it.

Kristina is the first female Managing Partner in Hanson Bridgett's 65-year history, overseeing more than 200 attorneys across eight California offices. She's also a former Mayor of Walnut Creek, current chair of the Bay Area Council, and a gubernatorial appointee to California's Medical Board.

In this conversation, Kristina discusses what convinced her to run for city council, how she managed a contested campaign while working full-time with a newborn, and which skills from legal practice gave her an advantage in office. She explains why she ultimately chose to leave elected office after one term and how she's continued advancing the issues she cares about — housing, affordability, community development — from the private sector.

She also shares practical strategies for balancing legal practice with public service and makes the case for why firm leaders need to value civic engagement as deeply as client work.

About Kristina: Kristina Lawson serves as the Managing Partner and Chair of the firm’s Management Committee at Hanson Bridgett. As the firm’s chief executive, she oversees all aspects of the firm’s strategic direction and management.

In addition to leading the firm, Kristina serves as the Chair of the Executive Committee and Board of Directors of the Bay Area Council, an organization of 300+ influential employers committed to working with public and community leaders to keep the Bay Area the most innovative, globally competitive, inclusive, and sustainable region in the world.

Kristina is a specialist in complex California entitlement, land use, environmental/natural resources, and municipal matters.

In the third episode of In the Counsel's Chair, David Kaye shares his perspective on global free speech monitoring and contemporary threats to expression in America.

David Kaye spent six years as the United Nations Special Rapporteur on freedom of opinion and expression, traveling from Ethiopia to Japan investigating how governments enable -- or suppress -- free speech. Now a clinical professor at UC Irvine School of Law, he's turned his attention to pressures emerging at home.

In this conversation, David explains his work monitoring global free speech for the UN. He breaks down what Europe's Digital Services Act and the UK's Online Safety Act actually do, shares his view on why American critics of European tech regulation are often arguing in bad faith, and offers his assessment of how the current administration's approach to free speech differs from its predecessors.

He also shares his perspective on what he sees as the biggest threats to expression in America right now.

About David: David Kaye is a clinical professor of law at the University of California, Irvine, and the former United Nations Special Rapporteur on the promotion and protection of the right to freedom of opinion and expression (2014-2020). He is the U.S. Independent Expert to the European Commission for Democracy through Law ("Venice Commission") and author of "Speech Police: The Global Struggle to Govern the Internet." A member of the Council on Foreign Relations, his work focuses on the intersection of human rights, technology, and international law.

Daralyn Durie and a group of colleagues took what most would consider a terrible risk in 2009 -- launching a boutique trial firm in the middle of the financial crisis, operating out of a borrowed conference room with spotty cell reception.

Fourteen years later, after building Durie Tangri into a 37-lawyer firm known for high-stakes IP and class action defense, the partners merged with Morrison Foerster in 2023.

In this conversation, Daralyn shares the unglamorous realities of firm founding (city business licenses, anyone?), the major cases they tackled (including existential patent litigation against Accenture and class action trials for the California State University system), and what it's like spending five months trying a case in Sonoma County with three associates -- including regular fights over whose shower actually had hot water. She reflects on why the partners prioritized launching junior talent over profit maximization, the tensions that came with staying small, and whether she'd do it all again. Plus: why she's been recommending a book about moral ambition to other lawyers, and her prediction for how AI will reshape boutique firms.

About Daralyn: Daralyn Durie is among the top trial lawyers in the country, acting as go-to trial counsel for both plaintiffs and defendants. Daralyn’s exceptional track record has earned her consistent recognition from leading national publications. She’s a fellow in the American College of Trial Lawyers, a member of the American Board of Trial Advocates, and an inductee into the California Trial Lawyer Hall of Fame.

John Nadolenco didn't plan to become a class action defense specialist — he made a strategic bet during the dot-com era that bigger, higher-stakes cases would define the future of Big Law. Three decades later, as managing partner of Mayer Brown's Los Angeles office and after a series of high-stakes class action defense wins (including at the U.S. Supreme Court), he's proven himself right. In this conversation, John shares how he approaches impossibly complex technology cases (hint: it involves a lot of YouTube), why he championed the fight against "no injury" class actions all the way to the Supreme Court, and how he balances trial work with leadership by waking up "crazy early." Plus: the one book about robots that's reshaping how he thinks about AI in legal practice.

Episode Chapters

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to John Nadolenco

01:06 Career Path and Class Action Defense

20:38 Office Management and Culture Post-COVID

27:39 Mentorship and Developing Future Leaders

34:01 Final Thoughts and Recommendations

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Introducing In the Counsel's Chair -- a new podcast from the Daily Journal talking to legal leaders across California and beyond.