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Indemnity vs Insurance 2023 – Which one is best for you? – GF019
NEW EPISODE LIVE for public access!
Do you know the difference between dental indemnity and insurance? And which one might be better for you? Today we have Dr. Neel Jaiswal, founder of Professional Dental Indemnity (PDI), to shed light on this crucial topic (as our security and sleep depends on it!)
https://youtu.be/SmLM5cr4mzo
Watch GF019 on Youtube
Should you choose a 'claims occurred' or 'claims made' policy? Dr. Jaiswal's transparent advice aids in choosing what is best for you at your stage of your career.
Need to Read it? Check out the Full Episode Transcript below!
Get a quote from PDI and save £thousands on your policy.
If you liked this episode, you will also like 10 Commandments for Staying Out of Trouble
Did you know? You can get CPD from the Web App or Phone App and watch premium clinical videos, for less than a tax deductible Nando’s per month?
Click below for full episode transcript:
Episode Teaser: And what you don't want to do is have to cover the costs of somebody else's mistakes. So, with an insurance pool, we put all the good dentists, so to speak, in one pool. And let's call them the distressed dentists, paying 30, 40, 50, 80, 100 grand in another pool. So, there's different risk factors and different prices. So, if something happens in the other pool, it's not having a knock-on effect on yours, so your premium doesn't go up. Whereas with a mutual everyone's in the same pool. So that's why you can be saying, I haven't had a complaint. Why is my indemnity going up, insurance going up every year? Now, obviously some of that's expenses, cost of living, but it's disproportionately high, but it's because you're paying for other people's errors and emissions.
Jaz's Introduction:Indemnity vs Insurance. I don't know if it's like a UK thing. I'm kind of sure it is. Although when I was in Singapore, I was with dental protection. So let's give you a bit of background first, right? Indemnity is a bit like the big organizations, mutuals like DDU and dental protection, whereas Insurance are kind of like a newcomer in the last 10 years. There's these different insurance products.
So what's the need for these? Well, when I was in Singapore, when I moved from the UK to Singapore, I was paying so much lower to be part of dental protection at the time, like, compared to UK fees, Singapore, it was so much easier to get protected as a clinician.
This is because in Singapore at the time, dentists were getting sued way less than they are in the UK, which is nice, and also taxes are lower, which is really cool. Anyway, came back to the UK, and now that I've been paying way less in Singapore, to have to pay what I was getting quoted for with DDU at the time, or Dental Protection, or whoever, It was a bitter pill to swallow.
So already I was thinking surely there must be a better way. Why am I a non-implant dentist who hadn't had any complaints at that point? Why am I paying so much so that it covers the high-risk dentist, right? Cause that's the way it works. These mutuals, they work because they've divided all the costs between all the members.
And this is why your premium goes up year by year by year, even though you didn't really use their services. That's when insurances came my radar and my friend, Dr. Neel Jaiswal, who's a fantastic conscientious clinician. He started PDI, which is Professional Dental Indemnity. So, I had a chat with him, I went to their evening, I met the underwriters, the lawyers there, and I was very impressed with what he was setting up.
But what he taught me and what I learned also from the Facebook groups and dentistry is that, oh, I had this complaint, and my indemnity organization is choosing not to defend me. Now that's a big eye opener, right? Because what we learn now is that these big mutuals, their cover is discretionary. Meaning that should they choose not to defend you, they won't.
They're not obligated to. They're not an insurance. Okay. It's different. And this is something that I've been learning. And in this episode, as we learn about Indemnity versus Insurance, you see that I'm relearning all these things all over again. Some great analogies there for you. It's a very tricky thing to get your head around, but you know what? It is so important, right?
Your career is so important to get the right type of insurance for your career is important to make sure you're protected, and your patients are protected. This episode is not as sexy as bonding and composite veneers and stuff. But like I said, this is really, really key. So please do listen all the way to the end because I guarantee you're going to learn a lot.
And if you do listen all the way to the end, you might actually gain so much that you will make sure that you have the right product. You'd be clued up next time when you'll do a renewal and it'll probably save you thousands. So, let's listen to Dr. Neel Jaiswal.
Main Episode:Dr. Neel Jaiswal, welcome back to the Protrusive Dental Podcast. All those episodes ago, the fourth ever episode was on microscopes and something to do with diva mode and that kind of stuff. It went to a funny little digress and that was gosh, so many years ago now. It's so great to welcome you back in a different reincarnation. Before we're talking about magnification loops and I remember I came to shadow you, we use your microscope.
And you've kind of pivoted a little bit. I know you were involved in the field of medical legal at the time as well, but you've grown PDI. And so we want to talk about that. We want to learn about the difference between Indemnity and Insurance. But for those who hadn't listened to that episode, tell us about yourself, Neel.
[Neel]So I'm a general dental practitioner. I've got a private practice in Hertfordshire and I've been involved in various teaching things over the years with microscopes, with tubules, with study clubs. And most of my education was with sort of Frank Spear in the States. Went there over quite a few times, which really changed my whole dynamic.
And I was sort of heading along the clinical pathway and building up the specialist practice. And I think probably at the time that we did our first podcast, we weren't so happy with the state of affairs, with the GDC, with indemnity, with being let down. And I kind of, I was trying to help people.
And I met my business partner, Gary, who said he was in indemnity for plastic surgeons. And I told him about what was happening, and one thing led to another and PDI started. And it really just came about from wanting to help our colleagues and having someone on our side really. And that was probably about the time that we did our first podcast. So, I've come a long way and congratulations to you as well. I mean, how far you've come. I mean, amazing podcast.
[Jaz]I appreciate it so much. And you reach out to me now and again saying that you and Cam listen to it. And it puts your daughter, Aria, to sleep. You told me a few times. I'm sure it puts a lot of people to sleep.
But yeah, I'm so glad that Aria is getting some sleep out of it, which is great. And when you mentioned Gary, I hate Gary, tongue in cheek because we went to the Dentinal Tubules Congress and it was fancy dress, right? And me and him, right. I thought if I go as Alan from The Hangover. Okay. And I have the baby with me, baby Carlos with me and no one's going to come as Alan from Hangover, and he came as Alan from Hangover.
It's like he was wearing the same dress as me. That really annoyed me, but yeah, it's all fun and games. Tell me in terms of how much of what you do now is revolved around you running your dental practice and how much of it is doing the professional dental indemnity, PDI, which is the product that you at the moment seeing the issues that we were having with the traditional indemnity that you raised.
[Neel] I think, as you know, being a dentist, just being an associate is a full-time job with the amount of treatment planning you do. Being a father is a full-time job. And running a dentist company is a full-time job. So I think I've got three full time jobs. How I split my time, I don't really, it just sort of becomes, not firefighting, when the practice is a bit of firefighting. But generally, I kind of work two days a week. And two days a week I'm daddy daycare. And two days a week is PDI. But every evening could be anything. And all our clients can WhatsApp me anytime, any day. And we super quick at responding, which is one of our pluses.
[Jaz]Which is why all those years ago, I switched from my I'm not going to name who I was with. I mean, when I was in Singapore, I was with Dental Protection. When I was in the UK, I was with another indemnity organization. It was all good and stuff. But the quotes that were coming back were getting higher and higher and higher year by year. And I still to this day, touch wood, it's going to come.
It's going to come eventually. Touch wood. I still haven't had a proper complaint that, there was a few like little hints that I approached indemnity for the, 'Hey, can you help me formulate a response kind of thing?' And nothing ever came of it. But it's something that is going to come eventually.
But despite that, despite me feeling like I was doing all the right things, the quotes I was getting back was higher, higher, higher, wasn't doing implants, still going ever higher. And so I wanted to try something that would significantly reduce the bill, but it wasn't just about going something that was cheap.
It was something that was something that would regulate and meet the regulatory standards, but also trust. I'm a huge person of trust and I trusted you, Neel. And I said, okay, Neel. You've got this new thing. You are obviously disgruntled with the indemnity organizations. You're starting something. I attended your evening talk and I thought, okay, this makes sense to me.
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By Jaz GulatiNEW EPISODE LIVE for public access!
Do you know the difference between dental indemnity and insurance? And which one might be better for you? Today we have Dr. Neel Jaiswal, founder of Professional Dental Indemnity (PDI), to shed light on this crucial topic (as our security and sleep depends on it!)
https://youtu.be/SmLM5cr4mzo
Watch GF019 on Youtube
Should you choose a 'claims occurred' or 'claims made' policy? Dr. Jaiswal's transparent advice aids in choosing what is best for you at your stage of your career.
Need to Read it? Check out the Full Episode Transcript below!
Get a quote from PDI and save £thousands on your policy.
If you liked this episode, you will also like 10 Commandments for Staying Out of Trouble
Did you know? You can get CPD from the Web App or Phone App and watch premium clinical videos, for less than a tax deductible Nando’s per month?
Click below for full episode transcript:
Episode Teaser: And what you don't want to do is have to cover the costs of somebody else's mistakes. So, with an insurance pool, we put all the good dentists, so to speak, in one pool. And let's call them the distressed dentists, paying 30, 40, 50, 80, 100 grand in another pool. So, there's different risk factors and different prices. So, if something happens in the other pool, it's not having a knock-on effect on yours, so your premium doesn't go up. Whereas with a mutual everyone's in the same pool. So that's why you can be saying, I haven't had a complaint. Why is my indemnity going up, insurance going up every year? Now, obviously some of that's expenses, cost of living, but it's disproportionately high, but it's because you're paying for other people's errors and emissions.
Jaz's Introduction:Indemnity vs Insurance. I don't know if it's like a UK thing. I'm kind of sure it is. Although when I was in Singapore, I was with dental protection. So let's give you a bit of background first, right? Indemnity is a bit like the big organizations, mutuals like DDU and dental protection, whereas Insurance are kind of like a newcomer in the last 10 years. There's these different insurance products.
So what's the need for these? Well, when I was in Singapore, when I moved from the UK to Singapore, I was paying so much lower to be part of dental protection at the time, like, compared to UK fees, Singapore, it was so much easier to get protected as a clinician.
This is because in Singapore at the time, dentists were getting sued way less than they are in the UK, which is nice, and also taxes are lower, which is really cool. Anyway, came back to the UK, and now that I've been paying way less in Singapore, to have to pay what I was getting quoted for with DDU at the time, or Dental Protection, or whoever, It was a bitter pill to swallow.
So already I was thinking surely there must be a better way. Why am I a non-implant dentist who hadn't had any complaints at that point? Why am I paying so much so that it covers the high-risk dentist, right? Cause that's the way it works. These mutuals, they work because they've divided all the costs between all the members.
And this is why your premium goes up year by year by year, even though you didn't really use their services. That's when insurances came my radar and my friend, Dr. Neel Jaiswal, who's a fantastic conscientious clinician. He started PDI, which is Professional Dental Indemnity. So, I had a chat with him, I went to their evening, I met the underwriters, the lawyers there, and I was very impressed with what he was setting up.
But what he taught me and what I learned also from the Facebook groups and dentistry is that, oh, I had this complaint, and my indemnity organization is choosing not to defend me. Now that's a big eye opener, right? Because what we learn now is that these big mutuals, their cover is discretionary. Meaning that should they choose not to defend you, they won't.
They're not obligated to. They're not an insurance. Okay. It's different. And this is something that I've been learning. And in this episode, as we learn about Indemnity versus Insurance, you see that I'm relearning all these things all over again. Some great analogies there for you. It's a very tricky thing to get your head around, but you know what? It is so important, right?
Your career is so important to get the right type of insurance for your career is important to make sure you're protected, and your patients are protected. This episode is not as sexy as bonding and composite veneers and stuff. But like I said, this is really, really key. So please do listen all the way to the end because I guarantee you're going to learn a lot.
And if you do listen all the way to the end, you might actually gain so much that you will make sure that you have the right product. You'd be clued up next time when you'll do a renewal and it'll probably save you thousands. So, let's listen to Dr. Neel Jaiswal.
Main Episode:Dr. Neel Jaiswal, welcome back to the Protrusive Dental Podcast. All those episodes ago, the fourth ever episode was on microscopes and something to do with diva mode and that kind of stuff. It went to a funny little digress and that was gosh, so many years ago now. It's so great to welcome you back in a different reincarnation. Before we're talking about magnification loops and I remember I came to shadow you, we use your microscope.
And you've kind of pivoted a little bit. I know you were involved in the field of medical legal at the time as well, but you've grown PDI. And so we want to talk about that. We want to learn about the difference between Indemnity and Insurance. But for those who hadn't listened to that episode, tell us about yourself, Neel.
[Neel]So I'm a general dental practitioner. I've got a private practice in Hertfordshire and I've been involved in various teaching things over the years with microscopes, with tubules, with study clubs. And most of my education was with sort of Frank Spear in the States. Went there over quite a few times, which really changed my whole dynamic.
And I was sort of heading along the clinical pathway and building up the specialist practice. And I think probably at the time that we did our first podcast, we weren't so happy with the state of affairs, with the GDC, with indemnity, with being let down. And I kind of, I was trying to help people.
And I met my business partner, Gary, who said he was in indemnity for plastic surgeons. And I told him about what was happening, and one thing led to another and PDI started. And it really just came about from wanting to help our colleagues and having someone on our side really. And that was probably about the time that we did our first podcast. So, I've come a long way and congratulations to you as well. I mean, how far you've come. I mean, amazing podcast.
[Jaz]I appreciate it so much. And you reach out to me now and again saying that you and Cam listen to it. And it puts your daughter, Aria, to sleep. You told me a few times. I'm sure it puts a lot of people to sleep.
But yeah, I'm so glad that Aria is getting some sleep out of it, which is great. And when you mentioned Gary, I hate Gary, tongue in cheek because we went to the Dentinal Tubules Congress and it was fancy dress, right? And me and him, right. I thought if I go as Alan from The Hangover. Okay. And I have the baby with me, baby Carlos with me and no one's going to come as Alan from Hangover, and he came as Alan from Hangover.
It's like he was wearing the same dress as me. That really annoyed me, but yeah, it's all fun and games. Tell me in terms of how much of what you do now is revolved around you running your dental practice and how much of it is doing the professional dental indemnity, PDI, which is the product that you at the moment seeing the issues that we were having with the traditional indemnity that you raised.
[Neel] I think, as you know, being a dentist, just being an associate is a full-time job with the amount of treatment planning you do. Being a father is a full-time job. And running a dentist company is a full-time job. So I think I've got three full time jobs. How I split my time, I don't really, it just sort of becomes, not firefighting, when the practice is a bit of firefighting. But generally, I kind of work two days a week. And two days a week I'm daddy daycare. And two days a week is PDI. But every evening could be anything. And all our clients can WhatsApp me anytime, any day. And we super quick at responding, which is one of our pluses.
[Jaz]Which is why all those years ago, I switched from my I'm not going to name who I was with. I mean, when I was in Singapore, I was with Dental Protection. When I was in the UK, I was with another indemnity organization. It was all good and stuff. But the quotes that were coming back were getting higher and higher and higher year by year. And I still to this day, touch wood, it's going to come.
It's going to come eventually. Touch wood. I still haven't had a proper complaint that, there was a few like little hints that I approached indemnity for the, 'Hey, can you help me formulate a response kind of thing?' And nothing ever came of it. But it's something that is going to come eventually.
But despite that, despite me feeling like I was doing all the right things, the quotes I was getting back was higher, higher, higher, wasn't doing implants, still going ever higher. And so I wanted to try something that would significantly reduce the bill, but it wasn't just about going something that was cheap.
It was something that was something that would regulate and meet the regulatory standards, but also trust. I'm a huge person of trust and I trusted you, Neel. And I said, okay, Neel. You've got this new thing. You are obviously disgruntled with the indemnity organizations. You're starting something. I attended your evening talk and I thought, okay, this makes sense to me.