Inquiry with Kelly Chase

No UFO Amnesty

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If you’ve been following me on Instagram or X, you are already aware that I am currently in the process of coming forward with the full story of what happened to me in 2023. It is a process that is happening in stages because I am naming powerful people and known members of the intelligence community and I need to move methodically to ensure my safety and the safety of others. I am afraid, but I am more afraid of one day meeting my maker and explaining how I wasn’t brave enough to speak up in the face of depraved acts of exploitation and abuse. If I was the only one impacted, I would lick my wounds and move on. But there are so many others. Many of them are also afraid. Everything I am doing now is for them. The outlines of what I have revealed so far are this:

Myself and another woman were drugged in Palo Alto on the day after the first Sol symposium, which was Sunday, November 19th, 2023. I believe, based on other information I have collected, that we were likely drugged by my former business partner, Jay Christopher King, but I can’t know that for sure. Multiple big names, including Leslie Kean, knew what happened to us and were involved in convincing us to not file a police report. I was told at the time that this was a military abduction carried out by a shadowy team led by retired Army Col. John Alexander and that it had been reported directly to the DoD who could address it in ways that the police could not. I believed this for years. But in April of this year, when I received allegations of sexual misconduct about Jay, the details of those allegations made me reconsider what occurred that night. 

I have raised other issues of concern. One issue is whether or not Garry Nolan was made aware of the fact that three people who had been invited to the conference had been drugged at the hotel where all of the conference speakers were staying, allegedly by another one of the conference attendees. I was told by Leslie Kean that Garry had been made aware of the situation. I found it very strange and disconcerting at the time that the morning after the drugging event Garry only reached out to cancel a scheduled interview with us for our docuseries and never said anything else about it. 

So I asked Garry Nolan on X, whether or not he knew. He responded that he did not know. I encourage you to go look at that exchange which is documented on my X and Instagram accounts to draw your own conclusions. For now, I have no reason not to take Garry at his word that he didn’t know. He has encouraged me to file a police report, which I have done and will be publicly available in the next couple of days. But if we’re working from the assumption that Garry Nolan is telling the truth about not knowing, then that means that Leslie Kean lied when she told us that Garry had been alerted to what happened to us. I’d like to know why that is. 

I’d also like to know why she was so certain it was John Alexander who was responsible for the MILAB? What was the nature of the report that we were told was filed at the DoD? Where did that report go and what ever came of it?

I’m asking these questions publicly because I have been lied to, gaslit, and terrorized for three years about what happened on Nov 19, 2023 in Palo Alto. I don’t know what actually happened to me, but I do know that multiple crimes were committed by someone, and everyone seems to be lying about it. I can’t make sense of anyone’s actions. And so I’m going to ask these questions in public. If they are answered privately, I will make those answers public. This is going to happen in the bright light of day. I am going to find out what happened that night, and I’m going to make sure that everyone else knows what happened that night, too.So that’s one set of issues that I have been speaking about publicly. There are others which I will dive into in more detail soon. What is going on in the worlds of ufology, psionics, and consciousness studies is extraordinarily dark, and it is wide-reaching. And the rot reaches all the way to the top—to people I once considered heroes, as well as colleagues and friends. I’ve seen it, and now that I have regained my agency and my voice, they are literally never going to shut me up about what has happened to me and so many other innocent people who were only looking for community and answers to life’s greatest mysteries.

In the coming days and weeks I’m going to lay out my own story in detail. I will name every name and I will tell you everything that I know about what happened on the night of Nov 19, 2023. It is my hope that others will join me when they see the power that the truth holds. 

I believe that they will. This wave has been rising, and the time to speak is now. 

For today, this episode I’m about to share with you is something that I actually wrote a few weeks ago after David Grusch appeared on Joe Rogan. But I scrapped at the time because I decided it was too risky to release it. But now that I’ve decided to go public with my story, it occurs to me that it is actually the perfect introduction and provides some critical context to the questions that I will be asking about what happened that night.

So let’s do it.

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In this Halloween episode, I begin a new series on Plato’s Cave and why I've come to believe that the cave is not simply an allegory, but the manifest reality of human experience.

I revisit the anomalous experience that obliterated everything I thought I knew about reality, and explore its parallels with near-death experiences and the kind of spiritual death that comes with seeing beyond the shadows. But leaving the cave is only half the story. What happens when you return?

I've come to think that returning from the cave is a lot like becoming a ghost. And just like a ghost, you're very likely to scare your family and friends.

Topics explored: Plato’s Cave | anomalous experiences | spiritual death | near-death experiences | mystical experiences | astrology | Socrates | ghost folklore | Victorian spiritualism | the loneliness of transformation | truth and belief

Inquiry with Kelly Chase is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio. Produced in partnership with Voltage.fm.

03:09 Introduction
04:37 From Darkness to Light
10:20 Dying To The World
15:13 Becoming A Ghost

Referenced in This EpisodeSupport the ShowConnect with KellyTimestamps

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In this episode of Inquiry, Kelly Chase sits down with author Joshua Cutchin to discuss his latest book, The Inverted Path: Supernatural Disorientation and Interruptions in Travel. At the center of the conversation is the strange phenomenon of being "pixie-led," an experience in which people become inexplicably lost, compelled to wander, or unable to leave familiar places. Josh traces these patterns across centuries of fairy lore, UFO encounters, ghost stories, and cryptid sightings, uncovering surprising similarities between experiences we usually treat as unrelated.

From there, the conversation moves into stranger territory. What if the phenomenon operates according to narrative rather than ordinary physical causation? Kelly and Josh explore the role of disorientation, interruption, and uncertainty in anomalous experiences, and how getting lost might sometimes be the beginning of finding something. They discuss the relationship between trauma and transformation, the importance of mystery, and whether the modern push for UFO disclosure risks overlooking what makes these experiences meaningful in the first place.

Finally, they consider whether humanity is approaching some larger shift in consciousness, and what that might actually look like. Rather than a single moment of revelation, perhaps the change we're waiting for is already unfolding through individual experiences, cultural transformation, and the gradual re-enchantment of everyday life.

Topics explored: Joshua Cutchin | The Inverted Path | pixie-led phenomenon | fairy folklore | supernatural disorientation | UFO encounters | paranormal experiences | cryptozoology | ghost encounters | anomalous travel | missing time | engine stoppage | Budd Hopkins | Kenneth Ring | reality discontinuities | perception and reality | narrative structure | Fourth Wall Phantoms | synchronicity | re-enchantment | UFO disclosure | the phenomenon | Jeffrey Kripal | trauma and transformation | sacrifice | Charles Fort | personal gnosis | consciousness | cultural awakening | experiencer experiences

Inquiry with Kelly Chase is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio.Produced in partnership with Voltage.fm.

Referenced In This Episode

Upcoming Event

Join Kelly and Josh at Lights in the Sky Art Gallery in Richmond, Virginia, on October 18, 2026, from 3–6 PM for a celebration of the Visions of Bigfoot publication, featuring artist talks, music from DJ Woodbooger, and more.

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This is an episode of Gods, Ghosts & UFOs featuring the host of Inquiry, Kelly Chase.
To learn more about the Visions of Bigfoot event taking place at Lights in the Sky art gallery in Richmond, Virginia on 10/18 visit lightsinthesky333.com
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Inquiry with Kelly Chase and Gods, Ghosts & UFOs are presented by SpectreVision Radio.

Kelly Chase (Inquiry with Kelly Chase) is back, which makes her the default president of the GGU returning-guests club. This week, we ask the question we’re asking everyone: what do most people think isn't real that you do?

She gives a spicy answer. She claims that most people behave like materialists, even if they go to church.

From there, we talk about what the evidences of belief actually are, and how it relates to “conversion.” Kelly explains how her own experience rewrote her whole value system in a matter of seconds five years ago.

As usual, we figured everything out and solved all the world’s problems.

You’re welcome!

• Most people behave like materialists, even the religious ones

• Religion as lava that cools into obsidian

• The reemergence of the feminine

• “Tell me what music is.”

• “The greatest evidence it happened is me”

• Great evidence for an individual, terrible evidence for the collective

• The old version of Kelly is horrified, tied up in a back room somewhere

• Molly Drake — “I remember firelight, and you remember smoke”

• Conversion is what you do, not what you say

• All behavior is downstream of belief

• “I think my job is fake”

• Is everyone waking up?

• AI is literally sociopathic

nd in the epilogue…

• Kelly tells us about how she recently maybe saw fairies

(possibly our best paywall-bait yet)

Want to come on the show and share a story? Or do you have recommendations or requests for future guests? Email godsghostsufos[at]gmail.com

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Recorded live on August 2nd, 2026 at the historic Philosophical Research Society in Los Angeles, this episode of Inquiry brings Kelly Chase together with SpectreVision co-founder and SpectreVision Radio director Daniel Noah for a deeply personal conversation about the emotional, spiritual, and psychological dimensions of anomalous experience. Both begin with their own unlikely paths from skepticism into direct experience, tracing the strange accumulation of events that forced them to reconsider what they thought was possible—and the equally strange sense of mission that emerged in the aftermath.

From there, the conversation turns toward fear, trauma, and the transformative nature of the anomalous. Kelly and Daniel explore why contact can be terrifying even when it isn't necessarily understood as threatening, the relationship between trauma and anomalous experience, and the ways shame and secrecy can isolate experiencers from the very communities that might help them make sense of what is happening. If disclosure means revealing something that was hidden, they ask what it costs to disclose not only classified information, but the most vulnerable and difficult-to-communicate parts of ourselves.

Finally, the conversation asks whether the prevailing cultural idea of "Disclosure" may be missing the heart of the phenomenon entirely. Craft, bodies, government testimony, and physical evidence may be part of the story, but for experiencers the deeper rupture is often interior: a confrontation with consciousness, the immaterial world, and the limits of what we can know. Kelly and Daniel explore the radical loneliness of learning to discern truth for yourself, the strange networks forming between experiencers, telepathy and individuality, creativity as a form of disclosure, and the possibility that transformation requires us to expose both our greatest gift and the wound from which it emerged.

Topics explored: UFO disclosure | anomalous experience | experiencers | Daniel Noah | SpectreVision Radio | Philosophical Research Society | direct experience | skepticism | contact experiences | downloads | sense of mission | experiencer networks | fear and the paranormal | trauma and the anomalous | adverse childhood experiences | shame | secrecy | abuse | courage | vulnerability | personal disclosure | spiritual transformation | consciousness | evidence and subjective experience | John Keel | Operation Trojan Horse | Whitley Strieber | Communion | Diana Pasulka | Encounters | cultural stigma | disclosure narratives | the immaterial world | radical loneliness | discernment | telepathy | individuality | creativity | the Fool | the shaman | humiliation | the hero's journey | death and rebirth | the gift and the wound | human transformation

Inquiry with Kelly Chase is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio.

Produced in partnership with Voltage.fm.

Referenced In This Episode

Support The Show

Connect with Kelly

TIMESTAMPS

04:01 Why Disclosure Matters

07:01 Kelly Becomes Experiencer

11:33 Daniel Awakens to Paranormal

14:26 The 2021 Download

19:48 Coming Out Publicly

22:38 Recognizing the Anomalous

24:06 Fear and Contact Signs

29:34 Trauma as the Phenomenon

34:18 Shame And Secrecy

37:15 Courage To Speak

38:26 Mission And Return

42:19 Disclosure Is Devastating

44:33 Media Suppression History

49:11 Why Nobody Cares

52:10 Experience As Evidence

55:38 Loneliness And Discernment

59:11 Humiliation And The Fool

01:03:11 Hero Journey Closing

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Today I’m sharing an episode of my friend Robin Lassiter’s phenomenal podcast Earth: A Love Story. If you like what you hear, I hope that you’ll subscribe to Robin’s podcast.

Earth: A Love Story

Spotify

Apple Podcasts

YouTube

Get tickets for the August 2nd show in LA at the Philosophical Research Society

SPECTREVISION RADIO PRESENTS: DISCLOSURE EXPOSURE

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/spectrevision-radio-presents-disclosure-exposure-tickets-1992296642890

Inquiry with Kelly Chase and Earth: A Love Story are brought to you by SpectreVision Radio

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This episode began as an investigation into Sigmund Freud, Edward Bernays, propaganda, psychoanalysis, and the hidden machinery through which modern perception management came to be. But somewhere along the way, it became something much more personal.

In Starlight Sickness, Kelly traces the strange lineage between Freud’s abandonment of the seduction theory, Bernays’s engineering of consent, and the ways power moves harm out of view by relocating it into the minds of the harmed.

From the origins of modern public relations to the hall of mirrors inside ufology, this episode asks what happens when the tools we use to interpret reality also become the tools used to obscure it. How do we practice discernment without losing trust in our own perception? How do we make room for complexity without allowing complexity to become fog? And what does accountability look like when the story you were living inside begins to collapse?

In light of recent allegations against her former best friend and creative partner Jay Christopher King, Kelly turns the same questions back on herself, beginning the process of untangling what happened, what she believed, what she may have gotten wrong, and what this community is owed now.

This is an episode about gaslighting, trauma, consent engineering, ufology, and the terrifying difficulty of finding solid ground in a world built to manage perception.

Topics explored: Sigmund Freud | Edward Bernays | propaganda | psychoanalysis | gaslighting | consent engineering | perception management | public relations | the unconscious | repression | seduction theory | the Oedipus complex | Jeffrey Masson | Freud Archives | Emma Eckstein | Wilhelm Fliess | institutional betrayal | therapeutic language | expert authority | trauma | memory | interpretation | accountability | narrative control | invisible government | torches of freedom | United Fruit Company | Guatemala coup | ufology | experiencer communities | anomalous experience | sexual trauma | abduction narratives | vulnerability and power | Jay Christopher King | The Experiencer Group | spiritual abuse | trust and betrayal | epistemic instability | discernment | reality testing | | truth and coherence | symbols and meaning | systems of control | manufactured consent | moral injury | the hall of mirrors

Referenced in this Episode:

Addressing the Allegations Against My Former Creative Partner, Jay Christopher King

Starlight Sickness — Helico Tele

Propaganda — Edward Bernays (1928)

The Engineering of Consent — Edward Bernays (1947)

The Aetiology of Hysteria — Sigmund Freud (1896)

The Interpretation of Dreams — Sigmund Freud (1900)

Three Essays on the Theory of Sexuality — Sigmund Freud (1905)

The Assault on Truth: Freud’s Suppression of the Seduction Theory — Jeffrey Masson (1984)

Sigmund Freud and the Jewish Mystical Tradition — David Bakan (1958)

Trust Me, I’m Lying: Confessions of a Media Manipulator — Ryan Holiday (2012)

I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell — Tucker Max (2006)

Support The Show

Patreon: inquirywithkellychase.comSubstack: inquirywithkellychase.substack.com

Connect with Kelly

Website: kellychase.mediaX: @kellychasemediaInstagram: @kellychasemedia

TIMESTAMPS

05:27 Propaganda and The True Ruling Power

09:20 Freudian Ick10:58 Jeffrey Masson, Heretic

13:18 Sigmund Freud and The Source of the Nile

17:49 Wilhelm Fliess, A Passionate Friendship

19:55 Emma Eckstein and The Stronger Sex

22:06 A Little Sleight of Hand24:21 The Oedipus Complex and The Nucleus of Neuroses

32:02 The Baby and the Bathwater

33:21 Trust the Experts

34:44 You Can’t Do Anything With This Information

37:54 The Torches of Freedom

40:31 The Coup

43:11 A Koan

48:15 The Abstract Becomes Horrifyingly Personal

52:21 Responding to Jay Christopher King’s Statement

01:01:03 Fall 2023

01:05:21 The Epistemic Black Boxes of Ufology

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What if the worldview functioning as an opiate today is not religion, but its absence?

In this field notes episode of Inquiry, Kelly Chase examines atheism not as a private belief or philosophical conclusion, but as a very recent mass cultural formation that now functions as the default worldview of educated Western society. Beginning with Marx’s famous claim that religion is the opiate of the masses, she asks whether modern secular materialism may now be serving a similar sedating function by making vast areas of human experience feel intellectually off-limits.

From there, the episode turns toward elite metaphysics. The public is often told that materialism is the rational, mature, evidence-based position, yet many of the people and institutions shaping the future take seriously spirituality, consciousness, simulation theory, mysticism, ritual, and esoteric frameworks. The question is not whether any single belief system is true, but whether citizens trained to dismiss the symbolic and metaphysical have been given a map that cannot represent the terrain power is actually navigating.

Finally, the episode considers the empirical and philosophical pressure points inside strict materialism: the hard problem of consciousness, near-death experience research, the PEAR Lab at Princeton, Dean Radin’s work at the Institute of Noetic Sciences, and anomalous findings that are usually met not with rigorous refutation but with studied disregard. These findings are not treated as proof of any particular metaphysics. They are treated as evidence that the question remains open, and that a genuine skeptic should apply suspicion not only to extraordinary claims, but to the dominant worldview that decides in advance which claims are allowed to count.

Topics explored: Marx and religion | opiate of the masses | atheism as ideology | secularization | materialism | consciousness | the hard problem | non-material reality | elite belief | WEF and spirituality | Silicon Valley mysticism | simulation theory | René Girard | Peter Thiel | Elon Musk | Bohemian Grove | ritual and power | Skull and Bones | esotericism | operative metaphysics | near-death experiences | PEAR Lab | Dean Radin | anomalous cognition | mind-matter interaction | dogma and skepticism | worldview enforcement | social sanction | epistemic humility | the metaphysics of power

Inquiry with Kelly Chase is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio.Produced in partnership with Voltage.fm. 

Referenced In This Episode

A Contribution to the Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right — Karl Marx (1843/44)

The Death of Christian Britain: Understanding Secularisation 1800–2000 — Callum G. Brown (2001)

Religion’s Sudden Decline: What’s Causing It, and What Comes Next? — Ronald F. Inglehart (2021)

The Role of Faith in Systemic Global Challenges — World Economic Forum Global Agenda Council on the Role of Faith (2016)

Faith, the Internet and Improving the State of the World — World Economic Forum (2016)

Facing Up to the Problem of Consciousness — David J. Chalmers (1995)

Near-Death Experience in Survivors of Cardiac Arrest: A Prospective Study in the Netherlands — Pim van Lommel et al. (2001)

Margins of Reality: The Role of Consciousness in the Physical World — Robert G. Jahn & Brenda J. Dunne (1987)

Experiments Testing Models of Mind-Matter Interaction — Dean Radin (2006)

The Conscious Universe: The Scientific Truth of Psychic Phenomena — Dean Radin (1997)

Things Hidden Since the Foundation of the World — René Girard (1978)

I See Satan Fall Like Lightning — René Girard (1999)

Support The Show

Patreon: inquirywithkellychase.com

Substack: inquirywithkellychase.substack.com

Connect with Kelly

Website: kellychase.media

X: @kellychasemedia

Instagram: @kellychasemedia

TIMESTAMPS

00:27 Braving Belief Talk

01:26 Atheism as Opiate

02:22 How New Secularism Is

04:21 Elites Aren't Secular

07:03 Materialism's Blind Spots

08:35 Anomalies and Dogma

10:01 Social Enforcement of Belief11:53 A Better Skepticism

12:37 Waking Up to Metaphysics

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Why do anomalous experiences so often arrive in the wake of trauma? And what happens when the people who understand that connection decide to use it as a weapon?

This episode of Inquiry follows trauma as the hidden throughline connecting UFOs, consciousness, psychological operations, and the engineering of belief at scale. Kelly Chase starts with how human perception actually works, drawing on Donald Hoffman's "The Case Against Reality," James Madden's umwelt and über-umwelt from "Unidentified Flying Hyperobject," and Jeffrey Kripal's Filter Thesis, then grounds it all in the predictive processing model of the brain and Karl Friston's free energy principle. The picture that emerges is unsettling: trauma doesn't only wound a person, it makes them porous, loosening the filters that hold consensus reality in place.

From there the conversation turns toward how that vulnerability has been exploited. It traces belief manipulation from the 1980 "From PSYOP to MindWar" paper by Michael Aquino and Paul Vallely, through MKULTRA and Operation Mockingbird, to the declassified reality of Operation Northwoods and the manufacturing of consent. It brings in Jacques Vallée's control system hypothesis and Colm Kelleher's concept of bidirectional mimicry to ask whether human institutions and the phenomenon itself may be using the same lever: disruption, destabilization, and the reshaping of belief in the rupture's aftermath.

Then it turns the dread on its head. Research on openness to experience and Post-Traumatic Growth suggests the architects of mass stress made a critical miscalculation. Trauma creates openings, and openings go both ways. You can crack the shell of consensus reality to make people malleable, but you cannot control what hatches.

Topics explored: Trauma and anomalous experience | experiencer patterns | the Filter Thesis | Donald Hoffman | perception as interface | umwelt and über-umwelt | James Madden | Jeffrey Kripal | predictive processing | Karl Friston | free energy principle | belief malleability | shattered assumptions | meaning violation | belief engineering | MindWar | Michael Aquino | Paul Vallely | psychological operations | MKULTRA | Operation Mockingbird | cognitive sovereignty | bidirectional mimicry | Colm Kelleher | black triangle craft | Jacques Vallée | control system hypothesis | Operation Northwoods | manufactured consent | openness to experience | Post-Traumatic Growth | consciousness-level immune response | non-human intelligence | contact experiences

Inquiry with Kelly Chase is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio.Produced in partnership with Voltage.fm. 

Referenced In This Episode

The Case Against Reality: Why Evolution Hid the Truth from Our Eyes — Donald Hoffman (2019)

Unidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the World — James Madden (2023)

How to Think Impossibly: About Souls, UFOs, Time, Belief, and Everything Else — Jeffrey J. Kripal (2024)

The Flip: Epiphanies of Mind and the Future of Knowledge — Jeffrey J. Kripal (2019)

"The Free-Energy Principle: A Unified Brain Theory?" — Karl Friston (2010)

"Trauma or Drama: A Predictive Processing Perspective on the Continuum of Stress" — Valery Krupnik (2020)

"Predictive Processing and the Varieties of Psychological Trauma" — Sam Wilkinson, Guy Dodgson & Kevin Meares (2017)

"Assumptive Worlds and the Stress of Traumatic Events" — Ronnie Janoff-Bulman (1989)

Shattered Assumptions: Towards a New Psychology of Trauma — Ronnie Janoff-Bulman (1992)

"PTSD as Meaning Violation: Testing a Cognitive Worldview Perspective" — Crystal L. Park, Mary Alice Mills & Donald Edmondson (2012)

"Making Sense of the Meaning Literature: An Integrative Review of Meaning Making and Its Effects on Adjustment to Stressful Life Events" — Crystal L. Park (2010)

From PSYOP to MindWar: The Psychology of Victory — Paul E. Vallely & Michael Aquino (1980)

MindWar: The New Battle for the Mind — Michael Aquino (2016)

Project MKULTRA, the CIA's Program of Research in Behavioral Modification — U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (1977)

MKULTRA Collection — CIA Reading Room

Intelligence Activities and the Rights of Americans, Book II (Church Committee Report) — U.S. Senate (1976)

Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba (Operation Northwoods) — Joint Chiefs of Staff (1962)

"The Anxious State: Stress, Polarization, and Elections in America" — The Conversation (2025)

"Politics Is Taking a Toll on People's Well-Being" — Psychology Today (2025)

"Stressful Life Events and Openness to Experience: Relevance to Depression" — Chiappelli et al. (2021)

"The Social Psychology of Responses to Trauma: Social Identity Pathways Associated with Divergent Traumatic Responses" — Orla Muldoon et al. (2019)

"Posttraumatic Growth: Conceptual Foundations and Empirical Evidence" — Richard Tedeschi & Lawrence Calhoun (2004)

"The Post-Traumatic Growth Approach to Psychological Trauma" — Richard Tedeschi (2023)

"Confidence in U.S. Institutions Down; Average at New Low" — Gallup (2022)

2025 Edelman Trust Barometer — Edelman (2025)

Support The Show

Patreon: inquirywithkellychase.com

Substack: inquirywithkellychase.substack.com

Connect with Kelly

Website: kellychase.media

X: @kellychasemedia

Instagram: @kellychasemedia

TIMESTAMPS

04:12 Trauma and The Anomalous

07:01 Perception Is an Interface 11:05 Umwelt and Uber Umwelt

14:05 Kripal and Filter Thesis

18:27 Predictive Brain and Trauma

23:11 Belief Becomes Malleable

28:08 MindWar Doctrine

32:36 MKUltra and Mockingbird

36:58 Mimicry and Control System

42:17 False Flags and Consent

46:09 Algorithms as Trauma Engine

49:23 Openness and Growth

55:59 Consciousness Immune Response

57:18 Closing and Next Steps

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