Most expats understand what it’s like to learn a foreign language. Speaking it with any level of comfort takes years of practice. And even then, in many circumstances (yes, I’m looking at you, humor), communicating in said foreign language may permanently seem clumsy and unnatural.

That’s also how many women feel once they start speaking self-love. This change in dialogue after a lifetime of self-criticism is antipodal and unfamiliar. But you know what else it is too?

Fair: You never judge others with the same harshness as you do yourself.

Kind: You give yourself permission to be who you are, as is, no adjustments.

Freeing: You begin looking inward and stop looking outward for approval.

This week, it’s my honor to welcome Master Certified Life Coach Marianne Talkovski to share how she became fluent in self-love. A licensed acupuncturist, esthetician, and author, Marianne is also a body positivity leader rebelling against diet culture and its toxic beauty standards.

As a 40-something Filipina-American woman, Marianne guides her clients to find radical self-acceptance. Which is something that came hard-earned to Marianne from her upbringing, where she felt like an “alien” because no one else looked like her.

She began battling an eating disorder at 10 years old, spending decades chasing a physical ideal impossible for her to catch. Now a mother who’s firmly standing in her power, Marianne is helping rewrite the narrative for all our daughters. And she’s doing it from within the beauty industry.

Have you accepted my invitation yet? We can’t wait for others to give us the world we wish we had, so let’s create it already. Join me and share your hard-earned experience right here.

We’re delighted by our nomination to the global Top 25 Expat Podcasts!

Full Episode Transcript:

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Hello. It is 11:00 am in New York, 5:00 pm in Johannesburg, and 10:00 pm in Bangkok. Welcome to a special edition episode of the Expat Happy Hour, focusing on intergenerational wisdom. This is Sundae Schneider-Bean from www.sundaebean.com. I am a solution-orientated coach and intercultural strategist for individuals and organizations. I am on a mission to help you adapt and succeed when living abroad and get you through any life transition.

What does it really mean to stand in your power? What does it look like to accept yourself? What happens when you start doing what seems like a foreign language, moving from self-criticism to self-love? If you recall, I promise you something dramatically different back in EP226: The Space Women Crave, that I dared to share what I believe in. That I asked you as well to imagine. I ask you to imagine a world where women come together across generations, as a powerful force to break down harmful narratives we are fed about relationships, marriage, family, career, our bodies. success, aging and more. 

And in this community we discover our own humanity and strength to embark with open eyes the new ways on our path ahead. This was part of an invitation to all of you to momentarily hit pause on your demanding modern lives opting instead to reflect, share stories as well as offer and receive support. This is an invitation to speak openly about the areas in our lives where we feel disconnected, unsatisfied and maybe even lonely. A forum to address the barriers we feel inside and talk openly of what we hunger for. This is an invitation to discover and share our wisdom in ways that are expansive and nourishing. Wisdom, intergenerational wisdom. 

We started this conversation last week in EP227 with René Washington. And this week we continue to explore the questions that drive me. What do we discover when we get women across generations together and we have open in deeply honest conversations? Well this week to continue that conversation, we’re joined by Marianne Talkovski. She’s a licensed acupuncturist, esthetician, Master Certified Life Coach and she’s in her 40’s. She focuses on body positivity, diversity, equity and inclusion. She guides her clients to find their most authentic expression of beauty in radical self-acceptance, regardless of the messages our culture has inundated us with to consume, perfect, compare, critique and feel less than enough. Marianne, thank you for being here on Expat Happy Hour, this very special edition, I’m so happy to have you.

Marianne: I’m so excited to be here. 

Sundae: So let me brag on you a little bit. Something that’s really interesting about Marianne is that her teaching is really, really founded in this idea of investing in self-care and owning who you are. And I think that’s so important because what I’ve noticed working with women is there is a fear or there is cultural messages which don’t give us permission to own who we are. And she says, “It’s the ultimate act of healing, love, connection and beauty. And that is activated, not only in one soul, but for all of humanity.” So you see things bigger than just us as individuals. So she stands for all humans to raise our voices against forces of oppression, especially diet and hustle culture. Since becoming a mother, she has shared that you are determined to create a world where your daughter knows what self-acceptance, self-care, self-healing and self-love looks like. So that is an amazing mission. I think you have your work cut out for you as well. 

Marianne: Everyday, everyday. 

Sundae: You shared briefly and I don’t know all the details about four or five major life events. one was battling an eating disorder in your youth. struggling to belong, which I know so many listeners can identify with. The pressure to not speak out about injustice. Overworking. And the social erasure of Asian American Pacific Islanders identity in this battle with the model minority identity. Any one of those are struggles that can be debilitating for someone and you are, what I’ve seen from your work, you are on the other side of many of those. Or you are focused and poised to do the battle, to do the work, let’s say social justice work, despite all these challenges. So I’m really curious, you’ve overcome all these challenges, When did you even know, either as a young girl or an adolescent that you were struggling?

Marianne: Oh gosh, that’s a big question. Well, I should share my background, I’m half Filipino and half Caucasian and both of those backgrounds are Multicultural. Philippines, there’s the Spanish and Chinese influence and Indonesian influence. And then, Caucasian, my father, I always joke around, he was a Heinz 57 Caucasian, Italian, German, Irish, American Indian. So I have always felt like I was an outsider. That I just did not belong. And he was also in the military so I was always the new girl. So I was always struggling to fit in and there is, I know a piece of me that has always been there, this Innovative rebel, like as much as I wanted to fit in, I also didn’t want to fit in. So that has been a piece of me that I know has been ingrained since I can remember. 

So there has always been a struggle to feel like I don’t belong and regardless of your background, I think even as a woman, there’s many times where we’ve been marginalized and can feel insignificant or powerless, or maybe we don’t have a seat at the table. You have to work harder to get that seat at the table. I feel like that has been just this common thread for me in my life. And the eating disorder piece came up because I was told at a very young age, “If you want to fit in America, you have to look a certain way.” And so I didn’t know that there were other women that looked like me because I was raised in predominantly White communities. And so for me I was trying to look like people that I was never going to look like but had no other model of my genetic structure from my ethnicity. 

Sundae: Right? We’re also talking about 40 years ago, where you and I are both in our 40s. And I think about the media that we were gobbling up at that time. 

Marianne: Yes. 

Sundae: Like impossible standards.

Marianne: Exactly. And I still see it now working in the industry, in the beauty field with getting older, being in my 40’s, Botox and this pressure to stay young and youthful and be unlined or unwrinkled. And again, impossible standards. 

The media, whether it was magazines, billboards, commercials or now social media, these messages we are inundated with, “Oh, you have to look like this.” This is what is accepted as beautiful and quote, perfect, and acceptable. So again, that outsider piece, I didn’t even know, I felt like an outsider. I always describe it as “alien.” I just didn’t feel like I belonged here. 

Sundae: So how old were you? How old were you when you were feeling alien?

Marianne: So my eating disorder didn’t start till I was 14. But I remember when I was 10, getting that message and realizing all of a sudden I’m looking at my friend who’s blonde and blue-eyed, and we both went to McDonald’s and I remember, “Oh, you go first.” And she ordered and I watched what she ordered and then I realized I’m not going to order anything. And it was the first moment that I realized, “Oh my gosh I’m putting pressure on myself. It’s not healthy behavior.” But I did it anyway and the hiding started. 

Sundae: At 10?

Marianne: At 10.

Sundae: But let’s just pause, like how in the hell did a 10 year old girl get in her head that she’s going to skip a meal? Right. Imagine the subtle messages that were coming, to even lean to that thought. 

Marianne: Yeah. 

Sundae: That’s terrifying. And this isn’t 40 years ago. This is happening now, right? This is also happening now, so, you noticed that, and then what happened?

Marianne: So that was going on and it wasn’t just immediate family, it was even friends. It’s just fascinating to me now because I can never imagine myself saying this to another child as a mother. But I had a friend’s mom saying, “Mary, is going to struggle with her weight when she gets older.” So there was this imprinting that was happening and I knew even at that age, a part of me was like, “I don’t like how that feels and that person didn’t make me feel good.” But it was also like, “They’re an adult and they’re telling me I’m going to experience this.” So there was that that was going on and then there was another side that my father, he had a very strong work ethic and his belief was, “You want something you got to go to work for it. You gotta work hard.” And so I think I started to at that point translate, “Okay, not only am I going to be accepted by the way I look but also, what I achieve, how hard I work. I have to be a good worker.” 

And so these two dynamics started to form where it was, not accept how I look and also work really, really hard. I mean, I started working when I was 10. 

Sundae: How is that even legal? 

Marianne: Yeah, I would go with my mom to the office that she worked at and they would let me file. And then I would go home and my dad paid me five dollars a week to clean the house and it was his way of saying, “Stay out of trouble.” 

As I got older, I started to realize this whole piece of, “Why am I so tired? I’m working so hard. I never stop.” In my 30s. I went through adrenal fatigue and had struggled. And it was through my whole understanding of Chinese medicine and realizing you have to rest. Fertility is about creativity. It’s a very slow Yen experience. It’s about receptivity and our culture doesn’t support that. It’s more, go, go, go, go, go. It took me understanding the struggle with that to link to my upbringing, why I’ve been wired this way. 

Sundae: Right. A dangerous combination of those two things together. And like the value of “work hard,” it sounds innocent on the surface. But when it’s tied to self-worth or it’s taken to the extreme, it can get really dangerous. So when you with hindsight or maybe not even that. I love that you knew it 10. You knew at 10, something. But there was also a power dynamic with adults, something was wrong. 

So there’s a couple questions I have now that you’ve got the benefit of wisdom decades later, you look back on the situation. Unfortunately, a lot has changed. We do know there’s a body positivity movement. We do know we have information about eating disorders. Yet, it’s still super pervasive, right? So it hasn’t gone away. What wisdom would you like to share with mothers and fathers who are listening, who are raising girls just like you in this current context, what do you wish that they understood? 

Marianne: Oh my gosh, there’s so much there. Even before my daughter was born, I had a fertility struggle with her for about a year and it just wasn’t the time. And part of it was I think all the alignment had to happen. Not just me wanting a child so bad but also me doing the actions to slow down and allow that to actually take space in my life. So while I was going through that piece of crank space, I was also realizing, setting intentions, I did not want to pass on my stuff to my daughter. I mean, no one gets out alive, but I wanted to work on my stuff and not pass that on to her so I could be prepared for whatever else she needs support on. 

So I had vowed. I remember growing up and watching not necessarily my mom but other women going, “I’m going on this diet. I’m eating this way. I’m weighing myself every day.” And I just realized that that had to shift, I could not raise my daughter watching me reject my body every day. 

Sundae: It kind of frightens me when I hear you say that because it reminds me, we, as parents can give all the positive messages in the world to our children. But which adults we spend time with also passing on messages and are as powerful, if not more powerful than their own parents. That’s frightening. So, what I’m hearing from that is be really careful who you’re friends with and the messages that they send to your children, directly or indirectly.

Marianne: Yes, yes. And I realize I want my message to be so strong that she feels she has a voice. So, I actually learned this last week, which is something that I feel is like a golden nugget for conscious parenting. And that’s anytime I say to her, “I love you” to say, “I love me too.’ 

Sundae: That’s so sweet.

Marianne: I love you and I love me too. And she’s a year and a half so I get to teach her that it’s okay to love yourself. It’s okay. In fact, I want you to love yourself. So, we’re starting there.

Sundae: Listen, that concept honestly was like a foreign concept until recently. This idea of self-love. We have to put the word self in front of love, because it’s not as we say, in German, “es ist nicht gegeben.” It’s not a given. Why is it not a given? Why is it that it’s not assumed? 

I’ve told this story before but a really dear friend of mine had terminal cancer and I went to see her in the last two weeks of her life. And one of the gifts she gave to me on that visit was she shared her battle with loving herself, and she said, “I see the beauty in everything.” She had this gorgeous apartment. She had great style, her plants are amazing, right? And she said, “I see the beauty and everything. But at one point I realized I wasn’t including myself in that world.” And she said, “Floor-to-ceiling, wall-to-wall. Everything being equal.” What I’ve watched is women my age in their 40’s battle with learning to actually stop self-criticizing and start having compassion to themselves or loving themselves. It literally is like a foreign language except for the people who are, you know, yoga teachers, meditation specialists. It is not in our normal language. Tell me where I’m wrong.

Marianne: It’s so true. And part of my work is when I start a session with someone, we look in the mirror and I have them describe their features. I focus a lot on Chinese face reading because that’s a branch of Chinese medicine that helps the face, tells a story, tells us who we are, who we came to be, our experiences, our challenges, our struggles, our patterns. So when I talked about wrinkling, your wrinkles really do represent who you are. And I’ve had some people that really struggle looking in the mirror. They don’t even want to look at themselves and when they do, they find the things they don’t like or they feel it’s vain to look in the mirror. And it all starts with how we look at ourselves, how we embrace our own identity. I know in the past, what’s really stopped me from putting myself out there and showing up in serving, is my inability to embrace my identity. 

And that’s just even most recently with the Black Lives Matter movement, and Stop Asian Hate. All of these things are starting to come up. I’m starting to realize, “Oh my gosh. I’ve been taught, conditioned, wired to reject my identity, who I am.” And so what I’ve learned, this is another piece that I really would love to share with humanity, with parents, with anybody is, we have to recognize ego is a vehicle for identity and we have to recognize those pieces in order to get to the heart. So when people are just all about that positivity because that can also be damaging too, you know, the yoga teachers. It’s a spiritual bypassing or toxic positive activity that people can’t connect to because they’re not really identifying with the shadow or the real or the identity pieces that we need to recognize in people. That’s their stories, the experiences they come to the world to have through certain lenses and we need to be able to embrace that and hold. space for that, in order to get to the heart. So that’s another thing.

Sundae: What does that look like, though? In real everyday practice, like embrace that, what does that look like in an everyday thing? Because I know embrace it sounds easy but it is so freaking hard. 

Marianne: It is. It is. It’s interesting, Sundae, because I was working with a coach in 2020, January 2020 and I had told him, “I just want to feel weightless.” I am tired of these body positivity struggles, I’ve gotten to the point where I still take photos, I never took them in the past. I don’t pull myself apart but there’s still that instantaneous “ugh” unless I’ve hired a photographer who positions me in a certain way, or I’m having a really great day. Anyways, I had told him, “I just want to feel weightless.” And not just in body but spirit. And I was explaining to him, my mother loved watching beauty pageants, she really would get off on the Filipinas when they would win. “Guess who won this year?” Because that was recognition. And that’s how you got off the island in her experience. So I’m explaining this to him. 

He didn’t really know what I look like, he lives in Taiwan and he started to explain to me, Filipinos their biggest export is overseas workers. So he was working or living in an area where he was surrounded by other Filipinos. So he started to describe it to me. He said the word “outlier,” a beauty pageant queen that’s Filipina is an outlier, and my brain started to short-circuit. I didn’t understand what he was saying. I knew something was going to start shifting. And he started to describe, “When I’ve seen a Filipino their body type…” and he started to describe my exact body type. 

And I realized I’ve never been raised around other women that looked like me. And so I’ve always just been conditioned to reject my body, reject my Asian American Pacific Islander identity, even. And my mom, I know she made that sacrifice as well for me to fit in to be an American but now I’m starting to wake up to, “Oh my gosh, I want to know more about this part of me.” And I want to express and connect and understand other people that are going through this as well. And so I haven’t 100% embraced my identity but I’m on the path. Especially now that I have a daughter who is Filipina Israeli-American. I want her to also connect with her roots and feel like, “Oh yeah, that’s where I come from. That’s a big part of who I am.” And embrace it. I’m a woman. However, she wants to identify, for me, I’m a woman first. I’m a woman. I’m a mother. I want to own that identity and not be ashamed of it. 

Sundae: So how do you own the identity, if those identities are not valued in your current context? 

Marianne: So this is what’s fascinating. Because again, just recently, this is another epiphany that came to light for me. I started doing some research on Impostor Syndrome. What is, what is Impostor Syndrome? Interestingly enough, that term was coined in 1978. So it’s just as old as I am. But I started finding articles on how BIPOC women are most likely to experience Impostor Syndrome in professional settings because they are not used to seeing someone who is in a position of authority who has been promoted. So, when I started to understand, “Okay, why am I not feeling like I’m recognized? I mean, I’m even doing the work to recognize myself. What is going on here?” 

And then when I read that article, I realized, “Well, yes, there’s that ego piece, there’s also the cultural piece.” And so, yes, I’m still going to have to do the work myself, but also understand, we’re dealing with a pervasive issue and I might just have to be that pioneer and that rebel piece of me, that Innovative piece of me gets to step up in that arena. So I may not have all of the answers but I do know that the cultural shift that’s happening will start with me standing in my own power. And even if I don’t know how to navigate that, I’ll figure it out. 

Sundae: So, what does it look like? What does it look like? To “stand in your own power?” Because this is the whole thing,  “Let’s stand in our own power,” but what does that look like in a normal day? Because standing in your own power sounds sexy, doing it can be hard. Does that make sense? 

Marianne: Oh my gosh, I was feeling this on Sunday, Mother’s Day because I’m six months pregnant and earlier that last week someone said, “You don’t even look like you’re pregnant at all.” I was wearing something that was covering. And then I had another person on Saturday who said, “You look like you’re having twins. Are you sure? You’re sure you’re sure not having twins.” And that’s why I’m crying like, “Oh my God! I want to enjoy this pregnancy but I hate my body. I hate what’s going on.” 

So yeah, accepting yourself is really freaking hard. I had to take a minute. I had to take a minute. Be like, “Okay, I’m going to feel the feels, this stuff, I’m triggered, I recognize it, I’ve been through it before, it’s not where I want to stay. I know where I wanna go.” And so just rerouting, but I had to give myself that minute. I couldn’t just stuff it down and ignore it and pretend like it wasn’t happening. I had to talk myself through, “It’s okay to be where you are.” This is what’s happening, this is real and recognizing the shadow piece and what’s going on. And then again refocusing, “Where do I want to be? I want to feel good about the rest of this pregnancy.” That’s going to require me to change my mindset and also to make different choices if I’m not doing what I need to be doing to feel better. And if I still don’t, if I do all those things, I still don’t feel great, there’s a surrender piece to just giving over to acceptance. So that’s one side of it. 

Sundae: I feel like you gave a really important process to help people see what that really means. This is also my journey, the journey that I have with my clients. We all want to stand in her own power but what you just shared was it took you really allowing the shitty feelings to come through you. Pausing, acknowledging them and then saying, “Okay what’s going on here?” And there were some self-love moments there like not shaming yourself further but going, “Okay, this is where you’re at,” right? And then having a bigger vision of where do you want to go in terms of your vision? With your, let’s say in this situation was with your body or your pregnancy. And then giving yourself permission to be exactly where you are on your journey and then surrendering, if you’re not as far as you want to be. That is what I mean by this is hard work. 

And the reason why I want to pause and really emphasize that is I want people to know if it’s hard, you’re probably doing it right. Not doing it wrong. Does that make sense? 

Marianne: Absolutely.

Sundae: If it sucks, you’re doing a great job. 

Marianne: Thank you for pausing and reflecting on that because it is not easy work. And the other piece I want to say is, I think being a healthy filter for information that comes in. Looking at other people that may be modeling what the bigger vision is for you but also being a healthy filter in like, “Well, that’s achievable for me,” or, “That’s not achievable for me.” So we’re not comparing or you’re trying to be something we’re not. So I don’t know if that’s making sense. But I was looking for other moms that are further along in their pregnancy that are feeling yucky and ugly and disgusting, how they’re dealing with it, how they’re feeling about it. 

And it’s the same thing with race, being multiracial. Now, there’s more voices on Instagram, especially speaking out about how they feel, what they’ve experienced, their upbringing, how they’ve been oppressed and silent just to fit in. How they’ve tried to make themselves small just to fit in. 

Sundae: God, it’s so huge and it makes me feel like there’s something there around, “I’m not alone and there’s nothing wrong with me.” Right? Because you see other people going through it. It’s like, “Oh, it’s not me.” And there’s something really validating about that. The fact that you said, you’re actually looking for other moms who feel like shit in their pregnancy, right? It’s like, “Please tell me, I’m not alone.” And there’s something so powerful about being in community with people who get it. Or maybe a little further on the road to pass on knowledge. 

So I have a, I have kind of a provocative question. I took my son to a dermatologist, he had to have something really simple removed from his foot. And while I was there, there were three photos up. One was of a woman, maybe in 20’s, another one was 40, another one was 60, and each had a keyword like, “Enhance,” “Preserve.” Basically, I don’t care what you look like, or what age you are, you’re not good enough. Right? And I looked at it with my son and I said, “Look at it. Look at those.” And he’s like, “That’s not okay.” And I was so grateful that he knew that was not okay. And I was pissed off at the doctor, the dermatologist. I was pissed off at the beauty industry. I was pissed off when I went to the waiting room and I saw some butt tuck thing or cellulite, whatever. I was pissed. How can you even work in this industry when these are the messages that you send? So I’m so curious, how do you engage? Part of your work, I know it’s not all of it, but part of your work is in the beauty industry. How do you operate in that space and negotiate those ideals that are put in the industry or even with the clients who come and are looking for support from you?

Marianne: Oh my gosh, Sundae, that’s a big question. How old is your son by the way?

Sundae: He’s 12. 

Marianne: Oh, I love that. I love that. He’s growing up that way and thinking that way. So thank you for raising him. 

Sundae: I’m trying hard. Yeah.

Marianne: I have a lot of women that come to see me and I know that just being able to touch their face when I’m doing a facial is such a privilege, such an honor because your face it’s so much about who you are. It’s the most dynamic part in your body. Your body can’t change as quickly as your face. Your face can change in 10 seconds with an expression. And so, I’m always wanting people to see, no matter how you’re changing, how you’re shifting, it’s in alignment, honestly. It’s an alignment in terms of how you take care of yourself on the outside, which really is an expression of how you’re honoring your self-worth, how you’re valuing yourself, what you’re saying to yourself. And then also what you’re putting into your body, how you’re nourishing yourself, how you’re feeling yourself. 

So those three things are really to me what expresses true radiance and that’s going to show up in anybody. You could do all the procedures you want, you can wear all the makeup you want, you can change the way you look externally. Nothing is going to change your expression. The radiance that emanates through your eyes. In Chinese medicine, they say “The heart houses the spirit and reflects through the eyes.” And if your spirit is uplifted by all of these things, again, it’s an integrated alignment, it will reflect through your eyes. I always loved that Roald Dahl quote, “Think good thoughts and it will reflect through your face like sunbeams.” And I really do believe that the way we take care of ourselves is going to show in our health. I even prefer the word Radiance to Beauty to be honest because it’s energy. 

Sundae: I love it. That gives me chills when I hear that. Oh, let’s start talking about radiance. Let’s have radiance as a goal. Not beauty, right? Like “Yes! More, please.” I love that.

Marianne: To stay on that, it’s all about how you’re taking care of yourself, at any age or stage of your life.

Sundae: Imagine how you would handle your life differently. Instead of saying, “I wish I were more beautiful.” You could say, “I wish I were more radiant,” right? And then if you want to be more radiant, what do you have to do differently? Like the answers are completely different.

Marianne: Yeah.

Sundae: I think you’re onto something. This is gorgeous! Listen, and I’m going to be really transparent. It took a long time for me to start taking care of myself. I used to think so kind of an academic nerdy girl, and probably, because I’m a blonde-haired, blue-eyed American girl, right? So I already had accepted standards in society, So I didn’t have to negotiate that so that was easier. And I remember thinking, girls who wear makeup or put a lot of time in their makeup or their clothing or even work out at the gym a couple times a week are self-centered, because they’re so focused on their outer looks. And so I would judge them, it’s so bad. I was judgy. 

But what I realized I was missing until I actually embodied it myself was actually depending on if people are coming from a place of self-shame and self-loathing or place of looking for radiance, was that if I take really good care of myself, through the foods that I eat through, the fabric, I put on my body, for how the fabrics make me feel right, the colors that pop and make me joyful when I see that color in the mirror, that wasn’t self-centered. That was actually just an energy management tool. Does that make sense? 

Marianne: Absolutely. Yes. You’re speaking my language.

Sundae: Yeah, I’m speaking to all the girls out there. The women out there, who were like me and thought it was selfish or superficial. My own Journey was when it was from a place of, I care about myself enough to pay attention to how my body feels. That’s when the shift happened. 

Marianne: Yes. And I say write while you were just saying that because you’re not alone in thinking that way. A lot of women, I notice even just buying a product, there is this battle with, “Oh my gosh, am I worthy of buying that product?” And how much they spend depends on how much they think they are worthy of. So It all goes back to, “I love you,” and “I love me too.” 

Sundae: It’s beautiful. So our time is coming to a close quickly. I’m just curious, you’ve got so much life experience and I know you also have a huge journey behind you and you have one ahead. I would love to hear from you, spontaneously, what wisdom do you have now that you wish you had when you were 30 or maybe, even 20? 

Marianne: Mmm, the biggest thing I think about that because I had some time to think about that question is the external validation piece. I have spent so much time looking outside of myself for acceptance. Wanting someone else to tell me I was okay. And feedback loops are important, that’s how we grow. It’s how I’ve grown in my business, how I’ve grown in my relationships, but I also know now, and I also know, now that being okay with who I am like, when I look in the mirror being okay, with my identity who I am and not just identity but my heart. That I can hear feedback from someone and not be shaken. Not be triggered. It doesn’t happen a hundred percent of the time. I mentioned that just last weekend, I was feeling triggered. But the snapback, resilience is strength, so I can recognize it and move on. 

So mainly it’s being so connected to myself and when I’m not connected myself, how do I need to get there. Being so connected to myself that I don’t look for someone else to tell me I’m worthy or I’m good enough or I know enough or I do enough. 

Sundae: Mmm. It’s big, it’s really big. And I’m thinking, all my recovering perfectionists out there, all my current perfectionists that are listening. I call myself a recovering perfectionist. So I really identify with that piece of external validation and I hate even saying that out loud. I notice there’s some shame they’re like, “Shit, I am someone who has been stuck in my self-worth, being defined by my external validation,” right? Straight A’s in school, really happy when I got a great job, the fancy title. There’s shame there of being like, “ïck, really?” and there’s something else there going like, “Of course, Of course. Why wouldn’t I?” 

We’re taught to strive, right? But we’re also taught to look outward for approval, and for the certificate, or the grade, or passing the test, or fitting in or whatever. We’re not taught to go in. So thank you for bringing that up. I think it’s a really important one. And for the people that are listening to this, you’re going to know if it’s for you.

What I love about what I’ve seen you do on Instagram and how you share bits about raising your powerful daughter. She’s so gorgeous. You’re now, I think bearing fruit from the hard labor of all that hard work to let go of external validation, and to stand by yourself, for yourself and drop those pressures. So, this is like a great harvest time, right? 

Marianne: Yes. 

Sundae: And that’s what’s so beautiful about being able to have wisdom about something that’s hard earned. What are you hoping you’re celebrating when you’re in your 60’s? 

Marianne: Oh my gosh. What am I hoping that I’m celebrating in my 60’s? Hmm, let me just sit for a quick second, drop in, see what is really speaking to me. Oh, I think that the stuff we’re experiencing right now with race, is going to be the biggest shift in our culture that you and I will ever see in our lifetime. And I really, really hope that there are more women that can hold a seat at the table, like my coach Susan Hyatt has. 

I really, really want to be on the forefront pioneering for that. If you are in a place of advantage, extending a hand. I’m hoping even before 60, I can get there for others. That’s my intention. 

Sundae: Yeah. I can feel it. It’s big, huh? Whoo, me too, me too. So is there anything left unsaid that you’d like to share with our listeners today when they’re 40 and kind of sharing our generation, or they are, maybe 10 or 20 years behind and looking forward to that decade themselves. Anything that’s coming up for you that you’d like to leave with them today.

Marianne: I just want to drive home that it’s okay to take a minute in the mirror, really look at yourself. And let your heart speak through your eyes, whatever you need to hear.

And ultimately just really listening to the message of your own heart. So, that alignment of the ego and the heart can be your most radiant expression.

Sundae: Well, that is definitely what I’m taking away from today. Is this idea of let’s just drop any ideas of Beauty and embrace this idea of Radiance. Thank you so much for everything that you’ve shared.

Marianne: Thank you Sundae. Thank you for having me.

As you can see Marianne is amazing. If you want to know about her, we have more in the show notes. She guides all walks of life through these tenets and her signature program BARE Skin, New You By Design, Show Up & Serve, and Attract & Impact With Radiance. 

And since she’s been committed to the message, she’s never felt more radiant, happy, healthy and powerful, and I know she wants that for you too. You can find out more about her in the show notes and her programs are there, all under www.mariannetalkovski.com.

Stay tuned though because next week, we’re going to dive in with another amazing woman and we’re going to learn from her hard-earned wisdom. This is all part of something much bigger. As you know, it’s something called the Wisdom Fusion Project. If you haven’t heard about it, make sure to check it out in the show notes. In June, my business is celebrating its 8th business birthday and so I can celebrate, I’m offering a gift to my community and also a little bit of a gift to myself. This is an intimate and invitation-only experience, six-weeks of intergenerational learning among women. You can learn more by going to the link Wisdom Fusion in the show notes. 

This is no cost, but spots are limited so apply if you feel called and feel free to share it with anyone from 20 to 70+ because it is certain to be transformative. This is an opportunity. Together you can discover new facets of yourself, learn from other women’s hard-earned wisdom, share your journey and support others who just might need it. Discover you’re not alone in your challenges. Become part of an intergenerational community of women to call upon for support in the future and redefine Womanhood on your own terms.

You are invited. So check it out. 

You’ve been listening to this very special episode series of Expat Happy Hour with Sundae Schneider-Bean. Thank you for listening. I will leave you with the words of Brené Brown: “You either walk inside your story and own it or you stand outside of your story and hustle for your worthiness.”

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