In this episode of Next Step Leadership, Tracy and Chris continue their conversation with Karl Vaters. Karl is a minister and author who is getting much attention these days. He speaks up for small churches—the often forgotten culture. He offers wisdom and encouragement to pastors who struggle to get churches to follow every new trend and quickly become larger congregations. He wrote about the key points in his latest book De-sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next. Pastors, lay leaders, ministry students, and all followers of Christ can gain a better grasp of Pastor Karl’s teachings during this week’s podcast. His words need to be heard. His wisdom needs to be applied. His humility needs to be followed. Listen and learn. Take the right next steps suggested from a leader like Karl Vaters.

https://karlvaters.com/