The "Invisible Worker," who powers society, is often trapped in bad jobs lacking dignity and fair pay. MIT's Professor Zeynep Ton unveils her Good Jobs System, showing how operational choices—like cross-training and slack—create high productivity and dignity. She argues that making service jobs the next middle class jobs is an urgent necessity.

Notes from our host, Emily Trant:

Has a business book ever moved you to tears? I had to reach for the tissues more than once when I read Zeynep Ton’s book, The Case for Good Jobs. The human impact of her work is powerful. As a Professor of Practice at MIT Sloan and the President of the Good Jobs Institute, she has spent over two decades proving that treating workers well isn't just "nice"; it’s a competitive necessity. She has worked with the businesses you love to go to, like Sam’s Club, and helped make their workers love being there just as much as the customers.

Zeynep is everything you could hope for in a podcast guest. She is a powerhouse of operational expertise who speaks with incredible empathy and clarity about why our current labor system is failing so many. Thank you so much, Zeynep, for joining me to discuss how we can bring dignity and meaning to everyone's work.

• The Good Jobs Institute: Explore their mission to convert 10 million "bad jobs" into good ones by 2027.
• Learn more here: https://goodjobsinstitute.org/ 
• The Case for Good Jobs: Zeynep’s latest book, which serves as both a rallying cry and a blueprint for organizational change.
• Buy it here: https://www.amazon.com/Case-Good-Jobs-Companies-Everyones/dp/1647824176 
• The Economic Policy Institute (EPI): For data on wage standards and the 26 million workers earning less than $17 per hour.
• Get more information here: https://www.epi.org/ 

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The median US worker retires with just $25,000 set aside for the rest of their lives. Harvard economist David Laibson argues our financial system favors the sophisticated, leaving the "Invisible Worker" in distress. He makes the case for forced savings and behavioral design solutions like automatic enrollment to overcome human procrastination and ensure financial security.

Show notes from our host, Emily Trant:

I first encountered David Laibson’s work years ago, long before I had the chance to meet him. His research on behavioral economics and automatic enrollment didn’t just sit in academic journals; it quite literally changed millions of people's retirement trajectories.

When I finally sat down with him at his beautiful home, the Lowell House at Harvard, I expected a lecture from one of the world’s most brilliant economists. What I got instead was a deeply empathetic conversation about the "gnawing feeling" of financial distress. David is the first to admit that even he isn't always "economically rational," and his humility in discussing the "triple whammy ice cream dessert" of life’s temptations is exactly why his work is so impactful.

David, thank you for your decades of work, for welcoming us into your home, and for helping us understand how to build systems that actually catch people before they fall.

Here is more information on the research and topics we discussed:

• Influencing Retirement Savings Decisions: David’s work with Brigitte Madrian, James Choi, and John Beshears transformed how we think about "active choice."
• Read here: https://www.nber.org/reporter/2024number3/influencing-retirement-savings-decisions-automatic-enrollment-and-related-tools?page=1&perPage=50 
• The UK Pensions Commission: Learn how the UK used David’s research to move private sector pension participation from 30% to over 80%.
• Read here: https://www.pensionspolicyinstitute.org.uk/ 
• Borrowing to Save?: A fascinating look at the impact of automatic enrollment on household debt.
• Read here: https://laibson.scholars.harvard.edu/sites/g/files/omnuum5971/files/laibson/files/borrowing_to_save_20200812.pdf 
• The Semblance of Success: On the difficulty of nudging consumers to pay down credit card debt.
• Read here: https://www.nber.org/papers/w31926 

We also touched on some startling realities facing the "Invisible Worker" today:

• The 401(k) "Leakage" Crisis: Research shows the median US worker reaches retirement with only $25,000 across all accounts, largely due to withdrawals during employer transitions.
• The "0.5%" Rule: A look into why only a tiny fraction of the population acts with pure economic rationality, while the other 99.5% of us are driven by emotion and impulse.

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What truly drives performance at work? It's not just workload. Dr. Eileen McNeely, Executive Director of the Harvard SHINE Program, reveals a groundbreaking finding: a caring culture is six times more associated with performance than an employee's workload. This leads to the system changes needed to better serve employees.

Show notes from our host, Emily Trant:

Wow, if you haven’t figured it out already, Eileen McNeely is an absolute force of nature. I’m hugely grateful that she gave me her time to come chat on the Invisible Worker podcast.

Eileen is the Founder and Executive Director of Harvard SHINE (https://shine.fas.harvard.edu/). It’s absolutely worth your time to browse through their incredible archive of impact.

Some of the sources that I used to prep for this episode include:

• The Harvard Flourishing Program (https://hfh.fas.harvard.edu/)
• The Harvard Flight Attendant Study (https://shine.fas.harvard.edu/research/workplace-culture/) 
• Well-being through work (https://shine.fas.harvard.edu/research/well-being-metrics/)

I hope this episode leaves you feeling both inspired and hopeful.

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When we talk about wealth, we often imagine investment portfolios or property ownership — not hourly wages and unpredictable shifts. Yet for millions of working Americans, income volatility defines their financial lives. Tim Flacke, CEO of Commonwealth, explains how small policy shifts and behavioral design can help turn instability into security.

Show notes from our host, Emily Trant:

A huge thank you to my guest Tim Flacke, co-founder and CEO of Commonwealth. Commonwealth is a national nonprofit building financial security and opportunity for financially vulnerable people through innovation and partnerships.

I first met Tim a few years ago when he was speaking on a panel at a London-based event. He spoke so articulately about the opportunities to do better, that I knew I needed to hear more from him. Despite living on opposite sides of the Atlantic we seem to bump into each other at industry conferences or roundtables a couple of times a year, and I’m a keen subscriber to the Commonwealth newsletter. (Sign up here: https://buildcommonwealth.org/newsletter-signup)

Some of the pioneering initiatives we discussed on the show include:

• Investor Identity toolkit: https://buildcommonwealth.org/research/unlocking-investor-identity-toolkit/ 
• Emergency Savings programme: https://buildcommonwealth.org/our-work/emergency-savings/ 
• Benefits for the Future: https://buildcommonwealth.org/research/benefits-for-the-future-partners/ 

No matter your role, I encourage you to get in touch with Commonwealth to see how their toolkits can help you to amplify your impact.

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What does it mean to be financially healthy in America today? Jennifer Tescher, founder of the Financial Health Network, joins us to trace the roots of financial inequality, unpack the data behind money and wellbeing, and explore how employers, policymakers, and institutions can rebuild the promise of the American dream.

Notes from our host, Emily Trant:

I can’t recall exactly when I first became aware of Jennifer Tescher, but I’ve been a fan of her work for several years now. She set up the Financial Health Network (https://finhealthnetwork.org/) more than 20 years ago, and has been systematically measuring the financial health of Americans ever since. 

Jen is everything you could hope for in a podcast guest. She’s smart, kind, thoughtful and willing to take a stance on tricky topics. Thank you so much Jen for taking the time to meet with me.

Here are some useful resources that we talk about on the show:

• Financial Health Pulse research (https://finhealthnetwork.org/programs/financial-health-pulse/) for the latest benchmark data. Essential reading!
• MIT living wage calculator (https://livingwage.mit.edu/) 

Much of what we speak about is systems change, and that takes time. Here are some of the policies and programs that the FHN has influenced:

• SECURE 2.0 provisions for automatic enrollment into 401(k) policies and new pension linked emergency savings accounts (PLESAs)
• US Treasury National Strategy for Financial Inclusion (https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/NSFI.pdf) 
• OCC Vital Signs Initiative (Watch here: https://finhealthnetwork.org/event-session/keynote-address-financial-health-vital-signs/) 

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Of those raised in the lowest income bracket, only 4% reach the top 20% of earners. Jason Desentz, CHRO of Toshiba, is one of them. Desentz explains his philosophy: "Listen, Learn, Lead," and how he leads his people based on his lived experiences.

Show notes from our host, Emily Trant:

I first met Jason in early 2025 when he was speaking about HR leadership at a conference in Atlanta. As I listened to him talk enthusiastically about the value of hard work, I sat in the audience and misjudged him. He’s a successful HR leader, and I assumed he came from a successful family background and that his ‘hard work’ narrative was cover for his privilege. Boy was I wrong.

Later that same day I hosted a roundtable discussion on financial inclusion, and Jason joined in. Afterwards, he came up to me and began to tell me his story. His humble background, how he knows what it feels like to grow up poor, and how that fuels his leadership style.

I knew then that his story needed to be told.

Jason does a lot of public speaking but he never talks about this part of his life, and I am honored that he was willing to open up and tell his story on the Invisible Worker podcast. 

Thank you, Jason, for your authenticity, for your courage, and for lighting the path for so many people to follow.

Here’s more information on some of the topics we discussed:

• USDA Food and Nutrition Service (FNS): (https://www.fns.usda.gov/) for data on SNAP participation, benefit levels, and program expenditures.
• Pew Charitable Trust: for data on social mobility and the proportion of children who earn more (or less) than their parents. https://www.pew.org/~/media/legacy/uploadedfiles/pcs_assets/2012/pursuingamericandreampdf.pdf 
• Brookings Institution research: finds the U.S. has lower rates of social mobility compared to many other developed countries. It takes about five generations, or 150 years, for a family in the bottom 10% to reach the average income.

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We’re wrapping up Season 1 of the Invisible Worker podcast with a very special Live Episode, brought to you from the annual Financial Wellbeing Forum.From barrister to restaurateur, Nisha Katona MBE traded the courtroom for the kitchen and built Mowgli Street Food. But this isn't just another restaurant story. We delve into the secret ingredient behind Mowgli's success: a workforce that thrives. Discover how Nisha's past shaped Mowgli's unique culture and how she's flipping the script on what it means to work in hospitality. Could her methods be the key to a happier, more fulfilled working life for hospitality workforces?

Show Notes:

This episode is a little bit different since we recorded it live in front of an audience with the amazing Nisha Katona, founder and CEO of Mowgli Street Food. If you’re watching you’ll catch glimpses of the audience and a little bit of interaction. If you’re listening, you might miss one or two gestures (e.g. where Nisha talks about a pile of paperwork being ‘this big’ and shows with her hands) but you’ll still be able to follow the conversation with ease.

If you’re curious about some of the stats we discussed, particularly about the hospitality sector, here are some great sources:

• UK Hospitality has loads of sector stats that I found super interesting
• I used the Resolution Foundation’s Economy 2030 report for all the info about how much hospitality we consume in the UK vs the rest of Europe AND for data on what features of a job people value more than a payrise. This report is worth reading.
• The CIPD is also an excellent source of sector information, and it was my go-to for churn data
• If you felt inspired by Nisha and now you want a job at Mowgli, here’s their careers page. 
• If you’re an HR leader or running a business I also recommend reading up on the guiding principles from the Good Jobs Institute. It’s a US-based organisation, but the foundations they recommend hold up in any market.

Finally, we’ve supported the Mowgli Trust for this episode. Check out the great work they do.

Ps - If you want to be in the audience the next time we record a live episode, subscribe to the Finwell Forum Community.

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A huge thank you to my guest Adam Kay for coming on the show to talk about his experience being a junior doctor in the NHS. I highly recommend reading his breakout novel, This is Going to Hurt: Secret Diaries of a Junior Doctor. It paints a vivid picture of life on the frontline of the NHS.

If you’re curious about some of the historical and financial information we discussed, here are some of the sources that I used to prep for this show:

• For the NHS origin story you can browse the national archives for a look back through the 1942 Beveridge report, which recommended the creation of the National Health Service.
• The King’s Fund data gives a nice snapshot of the NHS in numbers, and breaks down what you get for every £1bn.

I also looked at the ONS Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings data and the NHS Agenda for Change pay rates to get some comparative earnings data and insight into how well the NHS pays as an employer.

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A huge thank you to my guest Owain Service for coming on the show to talk about the behavioural science of money and to unveil the new research we did together.

Here are some of the links to topics we discussed on the show.

Use the Institute of Fiscal Studies tool to check how your household income stacks up against the rest of the UK. I hope you finished the showing perhaps feeling richer than you started, but if you want to check it out to be sure this is a great tool.

The Office of National Statistics (ONS) Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings is a great tool for understanding how pay is distributed. You can also get a snapshot, as I did, from looking at a single month of ONS data

In preparation for this episode Owain advised me to read the Perils of Perception by Bobby Duffy, which was fascinating. I also brushed up on the Thaler and Sunstein’s “Nudge”

Finally, we talked about Scarcity Mindset which is something I’m fascinated with, so much so that I wrote my own short paper about it, Mind Over Money. It’s a relatively short read, links back to some of the sources we discussed on the show, and as a bonus has a brief history of the concept of Scarcity Mindset and how some of the data I observe in my day job as Chief Impact Officer at Wagestream is potentially connected to this phenomenon.

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Thank you to Sara Davies, Senior Research Fellow at Bristol University Personal Finance Research Centre. Sara has been hands on developing the framework for measuring the poverty premium and in my day job I use her research to calculate and report impact. 💪💪💪

Although we pitched this episode as being about measuring the poverty premium, mostly we spoke about how and why it arises, and some of the methodology behind the measurement. If you want to get into the technical details of how it’s measured, here are some of the resources we mentioned on the show:

• David Caplovitz’s 1963 book “The Poor Pay More: Consumer Practices of Low Income Families” → borrow a copy from the Open Library
• This early report by Save the Children shows the potential cost of the poverty premium
• Paying to be poor: uncovering the scale and nature of the poverty premium, published in 2016 is the seminal work from the Bristol University Personal Finance Research Centre. Some of the methodology (and data) has since been updated, and there’s a wealth of information about the poverty premium on the Fair by Design website
• We spoke a bit about scarcity mindset on the show.I’ve written a short report called Mind Over Money that explores this in action, and links to further background reading.

Finally, if you want to feel appalled about the cost of the ‘loyalty penalty’ have a skim through the Citizens Advice super-complaint to the Competition and Markets Authority.

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