In this engaging conversation, Paul Skerry of IOM3 and Mark Shayler of Ape explore the intersections of packaging, sustainability, and innovation, reflecting on their initial chance encounter. Mark shares insights from his extensive experience, emphasising the importance of creativity and disruption in presentations. They discuss the critical role of carbon emissions in sustainability, the positive changes, and the need for effective communication of complex scientific ideas. Mark offers advice for the next generation, highlighting the importance of curiosity and playfulness, while also reflecting on his personal aspirations and the influence of music on identity.