I talked with Jac Hielema about Rudolf Steiner's book The Philosophy of Freedom. It's a book that helps us in our thinking, allowing us to arrive at new ideas, which we can then freely work with (or not).

Please listen in the spirit Jac talks about, when he talks about the various ways we can listen to people:

"I ask you questions, and I let your answers go into me all the way. Most of the time, if I ask a person a question, I already throw him out of me by my inner reactions to the person. So if I really want to meet you, I have to be completely open and loving, and just open my heart for you with love. And then when I ask you a question, and you answer this question, I let your answers go into me. And then I can experience your answers."

Jac has for a number of years been a teacher, giving seminars on that book. With his partner Damaris Matthijsen, he organises Economy Transformers in the Netherlands, and they are currently setting up a credit institution based on gifts in the historic home of banking, Amsterdam. He is writing a book on how to create a more human society.