This discussion is with Rev. Bosire from Baptist Church Umoja in Nairobi, Kenya. We discuss the practical reasons why many African pastors need to be bivocational, largely supporting themselves and their families without relying on a lot of financial support from their churches. We look at the challenge of time management of a pastor and the challenge of churches not giving to support their pastors either out of not being taught about it or because of being materially poor. Rev. Bosire also gives some guidance to Western partners about factors to consider when they want to help pastors financially.  Interviewed April 24th, 2025.  (46 minutes)