In this episode (Part 1 of 2), I sit down with Jason Clark – writer, speaker, and lead communicator at A Family Story Ministries. Jason’s passion is helping sons and daughters grow confident in the relentless, always-good love of their heavenly Father.

We talk about everything from rethinking old ideas about God to laughing through life’s wild ride of faith. Jason brings deep wisdom and a ton of heart... like a hot knife through bad theology.

He’s the author of God Is Not in Control, Prone to Love, Leaving and Finding Jesus, Surrendered and Untamed, and Untamed – and if that’s not enough, he also co-hosts the podcast Rethinking God with Tacos (yes, tacos – it’s a whole vibe).

Jason lives in North Carolina with his wife, Karen, and their three amazing kids.

Check out more from Jason at ⁠AFamilyStory.org⁠.

Hey everyone, welcome back to Jesus the Legend. Today we're going to talk about something that has completely changed the way I read the Bible — it’s the role of the early church and church tradition. Now, before you roll your eyes and think, “Tradition? That sounds old and dusty,"... stick with me… Because what I’ve found is that far from being dusty… tradition and the voice of the early fathers is extremely important.

For a long time, I didn’t intentionally ignore the early church and its traditions — I simply didn’t know they existed. I was so wrapped up in my own bubble, my own lane, my own denomination, that it never even crossed my mind to ask, “Where did all of this come from?”

Welcome back to Jesus the Legend. Today we’re talking about a topic that’s been on my heart for a while now—something that’s both fascinating and, honestly, really surprised me once I checked it out for myself. The title of this episode is "Scripture’s Silence on Hell - What the Bible Doesn’t Say." If your church background was anything like mine, you were probably taught that hell—a place of eternal fire and never ending torment—was a core part of the Christian faith. I was always under the impression it was clearly spelled out in the Bible, no questions asked. But what if I told you that when you actually crack open the scriptures, that picture starts to get fuzzy? What if the hell we’ve been imagining isn’t quite as biblical as we may have thought?

Hey, everyone! Welcome back to Jesus the Legend, the podcast where we’re doing our best to dig deep into the wild, wonderful, and beautiful Gospel. 

Today, we’re diving into the consuming, heart-stirring fire we see all throughout Scripture—the fire of His love, His power, and His presence. But here’s the twist… it’s not a fire that torments forever, but one that transforms. So grab your coffee, settle in, and let’s get into it!

Welcome to Jesus the Legend. Today’s episode is titled: We're All Universalists (But We Won’t Admit It).

Now before you start yelling, stick with me for a few minutes. It’s gonna be worth it.

What if I told you that, in many ways, we already think in universal terms without realizing it? When it comes to sin and the fall, we have no problem affirming its reach. We acknowledge that sin has affected everyone—that not a single person is exempt. We see evidence of brokenness everywhere. We believe, as Scripture says, that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). We accept that the consequences of Adam’s fall have rippled through every corner of humanity.

But here’s the question: Why do we stop there? Why do we so easily affirm that sin in universal, yet hesitate to affirm the universal reach of redemption? If we can believe that the fall of one man, Adam, had cosmic consequences, why do we struggle to believe that the victory of one man, Jesus - the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE, is just as far-reaching—if not more?

Hey everyone, welcome back to Jesus the Legend! Today, I want to dive into a topic that came up in my recent interview with David Artman. When I asked him what the biggest push-back he gets against Christian Universalism is, he said it’s the idea that it takes away free choice. That really got me thinking, because I wrestled with that same question a few years ago as well… plus I’ve heard that same concern from others myself. 

The idea is if everyone ultimately chooses God, then somehow, human freedom is being violated—that real love requires the option to reject Him forever, even if that means eternal separation or torment. But is that actually true? Is that how freedom really works?

I believe it’s time to take a closer look at what freedom actually is. Because when we talk about free will, we tend to assume that every person is making fully rational, unbiased, and independent choices. But in reality, our choices are shaped by so many things—our upbringing, our wounds, our fears, the lies we’ve believed, and the cultural and religious systems we’ve been part of. If a person rejects God, are they doing so with full clarity and understanding? Or is that rejection coming from a place of pain, confusion, or deception?

If we believe that God is truly a loving Father, does He stand back and simply allow His children to remain in their blindness and brokenness forever? Or does He, in His relentless love, continue drawing them—pulling them toward healing, toward truth, and ultimately, toward Himself?

Today, we’re going to explore what real freedom looks like, whether our choices are as “free” as we assume, and what it means when Jesus says in John 12:32, “And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” What does it mean for God to draw us? Does it override our will, or does it restore it?

Part 3 of 3 with David Artman - Welcome to Jesus the Legend! I am so excited to have had the chance to chat with David Artman.

David is a husband, banjo player, and minister who believes God will ultimately redeem everyone by grace. After over 30 years in pastoral ministry, he loves to engage in today’s spiritual conversations.

His journey has led him to embrace Christian universalism—not as a break from Scripture, but as its deepest truth. His book, Grace Saves All – The Necessity of Christian Universalism, argues that ultimate redemption is both possible and necessary within the Christian faith.

Through his podcast, Grace Saves All – Christianity and Universal Salvation, David explores God’s endless mercy in conversations with theologians, pastors, and seekers. With a heart for Jesus, he desires to share a message of hope, healing, and God’s radical love.

Whether playing music or diving into deep discussions, David is passionate about spreading the good news that grace truly does save all.

Part 2 of 3 with David Artman - Welcome to Jesus the Legend! I am so excited to continue my chat with David Artman.

David is a husband, banjo player, and minister who believes God will ultimately redeem everyone by grace. After over 30 years in pastoral ministry, he loves to engage in today’s spiritual conversations.

His journey has led him to embrace Christian universalism—not as a break from Scripture, but as its deepest truth. His book, Grace Saves All – The Necessity of Christian Universalism, argues that ultimate redemption is both possible and necessary within the Christian faith.

Through his podcast, Grace Saves All – Christianity and Universal Salvation, David explores God’s endless mercy in conversations with theologians, pastors, and seekers. With a heart for Jesus, he desires to share a message of hope, healing, and God’s radical love.

Whether playing music or diving into deep discussions, David is passionate about spreading the good news that grace truly does save all.

Part 1 of 3 with David Artman - Welcome to Jesus the Legend! I am so excited to have a very special guest joining me today - David Artman.

David is a husband, banjo player, and minister who believes God will ultimately redeem everyone by grace. After over 30 years in pastoral ministry, he loves to engage in today’s spiritual conversations.

His journey has led him to embrace Christian universalism—not as a break from Scripture, but as its deepest truth. His book, Grace Saves All – The Necessity of Christian Universalism, argues that ultimate redemption is both possible and necessary within the Christian faith.

Through his podcast, Grace Saves All – Christianity and Universal Salvation, David explores God’s endless mercy in conversations with theologians, pastors, and seekers. With a heart for Jesus, he desires to share a message of hope, healing, and God’s radical love.

Whether playing music or diving into deep discussions, David is passionate about spreading the good news that grace truly does save all.

Welcome to Jesus the Legend… today we’re diving deep into another fun parable -  Matthew 25: 31-46 - “The Sheep and the Goats”. This passage has been a cornerstone of thought on judgment, mercy, and eternal destiny. But what does it really mean? Does it teach eternal conscious torment, or is there something deeper happening? Today, we’ll touch on a few different ways of how this passage has been understood, the significance of the Greek words used, and what this parable reveals about God’s justice and restoration.