Getting people to ride the T as the COVID crisis fades won’t be easy. A Suffolk U. / WGBH News / Boston Globe poll showed that 25 percent of Massachusetts residents won’t be comfortable taking public transit even if there’s an effective vaccine, and right now that’s a distant possibility at best.

So how can the T get back on track as we head back toward some semblance of ordinary life? And how could cities and towns tweak their streetscapes to respond to the virus? Peter Kadzis and Adam Reilly talk it over with Jim Aloisi, the former secretary of transportation and current board member of Transit Matters. First, though, Aloisi talks about how a treasure trove of his mother’s Italian recipes has sustained him through the pandemic — and at the end, he gives listeners one to try at home.