Mark and Michael talk to cabaret performer and Drag Race UK star Joe Black about permission for passion, grotesque glamour, and being a villain.

menkind are now on patreon! If you are enjoying listening, would like access to extras every week and are able to support us, you can find us at patreon.com/menkindpodcast

Follow menkind on Twitter and Instagram @menkindpodcast and Joe @misterjoeblack

Recorded and edited by Siren Turner and Lianne Coop for Impatient Productions. Artwork by Haiminh Le.

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