In part two of a three-part series, Maura Sweeney '07 interviews Joe Cavanagh '99 about how his Holy Cross experience influences the way he practices law.

Recorded September 11, 2019

---

Transcript

Joe:                        The idea of doing your best, your excellence for God, for others, for clients in what you do no matter what you're doing, wherever you are, personal sphere, professional sphere, other places and I take that directly from Holy Cross. Yeah.

Maura:                 Welcome to Mission-Driven, where we speak with alumni who are leveraging their Holy Cross education to make a meaningful difference in the world around them. I'm your host Maura Sweeney from the class of 2007, Director of Alumni Career Development at Holy Cross. I'm delighted to welcome you to today's show.

                                In part two of the three part series, we speak with Joe Cavanagh. Joe graduated from Holy Cross in 1999 and Cornell Law School in 2003. Joe joined his father and sister at Bliss & Cavanagh and became partner in 2013. Joe speaks about the value of his time on campus and its impact on the way that he practices law. There are a few fun stories from his time on the Hill, too.

Mary:                    So Joe, I'm excited to talk to you next, class of ‘99, History major. You went to Cornell Law School, graduated in 2003 are also a partner at Bliss & Cavanagh in Providence, Rhode Island. You work in general litigation with a focus on business and complex commercial employment, personal injury and real estate litigation. You also advise corporate and non-profit clients in the areas of pre-litigation strategy, employment, contracting, negotiation and compliance.

                                You also do pro bono work at the TGC Memorial Fund as well as the Board of Trustees at the Ocean Tides School. And as we've talked about, you also received Super Lawyer of the year in 2019 for Litigation within Real Estate and Best Lawyers in America in 2017. Top Litigation Attorney from Super Lawyers from 2013 to 2018, and Rising Star back in 2012 and that was a positive premonition because it proved true over the years. But I also noticed that you received a Martindale Hubbell Peer Rating for strong ethical standards, which really stood out to be, can you talk to me a little bit about that.

Joe:                        Interesting that you mentioned that Maura I'm not sure I had focused on that aspect of my profile. The Martindale Hubbell Peer Rating. I've seen it before in looking up other lawyers in the directory, but didn't know that I had necessarily garnered an ethical rating there. So it was very nice to hear.

Maura:                 Oh, well congratulations!

Joe:                        Thank you.

Maura:                 Yeah.

Joe:                        So yeah, as Mary said, we have a collegial bar in Rhode Island. You have quite a bit of contact with your colleagues and other firms in the courthouse or by phone and at depositions and there's an understanding that we're part of a smaller community where people don't necessarily take cheap shots or do things with the mode or the thought that they won't see this practitioner again in their practice, which might happen in bigger cities. So in a way it replicates a smaller college community like at Holy Cross, and I think it makes for a better practice both within our firm and around the state and for the whole system, the court system, the clients that are served by it.

                                So, within that peer set, I would be thought of as having high ethical standards it's nice to hear and I would like to think that's partly due to my time at Holy Cross and the way that, my experiences I had here on campus in a similar type setting. I mean, from having been here, it is a small community, things that happen are known and word gets out quickly. Sometimes you can't believe how quickly, like Kimball before breakfast the next morning, so that element of sort of honesty and accountability within a community is one that you kind of learn and sometimes make mistakes in that regard in a small college setting like this.

                                And then to have those experiences and realize that we're all in this together and that things you say or do will have repercussions, to move that into your professional life now and I would like to think a peer voted award like that is a reflection of a recognition of that.

Maura:                 That's fantastic. Right. And it's similar to what Mary and I talked about, just the incredible importance of being recognized by peers and just how significant that is. That's wonderful.

Maura:                 Well, and I'd love to hear a bit more about your professional journey since you graduated from Holy Cross because I know I only captured some of the bookends.

Joe:                        Sure. So after law school I went to a firm in Boston, a large firm in many cities, in international practice to Mintz Levin it was a great place to begin my career. I met many wonderful people there and there was a standard of excellence that I was exposed to and sort of reared in that I draw on every day my experiences from being in that setting. There were actually some Holy Cross alumni that were at the firm that I was thinking about driving up here today and had an event like this causes you to reflect in ways that you don't usually busy business of life.

                                But when I arrived at Mintz Levin, quickly, the Holy Cross alumni network was at work sort of informally. I think they probably had read resumes of people are arriving, new associates and went out of their way to reach out to me and Scott Ford was class of ‘89 here I think at Holy Cross. Matt Hurley was ‘88 and I'm still in touch with those lawyers, I believe they're both still partners at Mintz Levin and things like on a Friday afternoon we'd go... If Holy Cross was playing in the NCAA tournament, they ring me up, we're going out, we're going to get some lunch and we watched the game and things like that. So it was the Holy Cross community sort of taking form in the professional setting.

Maura:                 Well, I mean it's what everyone says that no matter how, if you wanted to escape Holy Cross, you can't really, because you wear anything purple or people find out that you have a connection and whether they went to Holy Cross or their neighbor or their cousin or their friend, we have a way of finding each other, which I think is wonderful. In a new setting it helps you feel a lot more welcome. So on a Holy Cross note, how has Holy Cross's mission influenced your life?

Joe:                        So, I had the question in mind as I was reading ahead of time here, and I was just thinking back to the spiritual exercises. I went on the spiritual exercises actually not as a Holy Cross student, it was the fall after I graduated. They made an exception, let me come back and do that.

Maura:                 Oh wonderful.

Joe:                        With sports on campus that it had never worked out and so I was still getting the full experience here even six, eight months after I graduated. And, again I mentioned the community element of it, but the idea that you would incorporate your spirituality and your striving for excellence for God and others into your work life was something that I every day try to incorporate into what I do.

                                I think of the Saint Ignatius prayer, I still pray it multiple times a day. And I remember getting a little green prayer card at that retreat from... I think it was from Father Ford or Father LeBran who was still conducting those at the time and reading it and then quickly committing it to memory. I don't know where the card is now I might still have it but, just trying to plug into the experience of that retreat and the idea of doing your best, your excellence for God, for others, for clients in what you do no matter what you're doing, wherever you are, personal sphere, professional sphere, other places and I've take that directly from Holy Cross. Yeah.

Maura:                 Well and it sounds like you don't even need the little card anymore since you have it committed to memory.

Joe:                        No. I have. Said it enough times and it sticks.

Maura:                 Yeah. Yeah.

Jim:                        Just like an argument in court, right?

Maura:                 Well, you've touched upon this already about the Holy Cross mission and how you've internalized it. And so I'm curious to know what mission drives you and how you've really formed your own mission?

Joe:                        Well, I mean, I like to think the two mold together. It's very short concise terms, to get to heaven and bring others with me or to help others get there as well, I mean at its basic element that's what I consider my life mission to be and so that in the practice of law, I mean from day to day and hour by hour, the way that that often manifests itself is to make sure in that moment whether it's a 0.1 time block, a 10th of an hour time block for a client or more than that or preparing for hearings or depositions to just make sure that I'm doing things up to a standard that that is reflective of trying to bring my best and do my best with my talents and ability because that's in that moment what's going to further that mission.

                                That's what God wants me to do for those six minutes or 12 minutes or whatever and you just... and then you're in the car headed off to youth sports events or to family events and just sort of recalibrating that mindset every minute of the day. And then obviously in the professional sphere, it means when you're advising people taking into consideration much more than just their particular narrow legal issue-

Maura:                 Right.

Joe:                        ... and we have in our practice in Providence, the nice flexibility in that, in addition to representing some large corporate companies and major corporations in sort of big complex litigation, we're also small enough and we're in a small enough legal market that neighbors with personal matters can call and we can actually take those matters on and help them, or people with a small business disputes that probably wouldn't even get in the door at a larger firm and it's there that you can be more of a holistic adviser and looking at helping this person along whatever path that they're taking and it may even spill over beyond the law. You're thinking about the mission to help ultimately, how can I help this person get to heaven? And so that's my mission.

Maura:                 It's an important one. Yeah.

Maura:                 Well, and I'll ask you to think back to when you were a student at Holy Cross and what stands out most from your experience and how it's really prepared you for these moments of helping people with their challenges and maybe helping with some of your own challenges.

Joe:                        I'd say first and foremost like Mary said, because we were both History majors at about the same time. So I think our experiences were probably very similar. The workload... I think we did a five course load at Holy Cross when we were here in the mid ‘90s and that seemed to be talking to friends at other schools, one more core substantive academic course than others would take. So there was always a lot of work and in the history department there was always a lot of reading and writing all the time and deadlines, constantly deadlines. Write papers tomorrow, 10 page paper due Friday, 12 pages due Tuesday, I mean really our litigation practice at Providence is not much different at all, so you kind of hone those skills. But also the sort of the demands of some of the professors.

                                I remember Father Kuzniewski, taking his History classes and we had a trip that we were taking out to Colorado Springs, the hockey team was to play Air Force Academy, that was in October of my senior year and we were going to fly out of Logan on a Thursday morning for the weekend games and I think we were leaving the Hart Center at 5:00 AM and we had a History test scheduled for that day so I went to see Father K a week or so before and I said, here's my conflict so I can’t take the test. Well let me know if I can take it when I get back or make another arrangement, and he said, "Well, what time does the bus leave the Hart Center?" I said, "5:00 AM we're going to be packed up and go." He said, "Okay, well this will work well."

                                He said, Ciampi’s is on the way to the Hart Center so why don't you stop by. Ring the bell at Ciampi at 3:00 AM and you can take your test from 3:00 AM to 4:30 AM that will give plenty of time to get up there and get on the bus." And that's what I did. I showed up at the Ciampi Hall at 3:00 AM and Father K set me up with a little space, I think he offered me some coffee and-

Maura:                 It's the least he could do.

Joe:                        ... I took my History test. In just the little mini capsule that was Holy Cross and then I was on the bus and we were off and we had a great weekend and work due on Monday morning when we flew back.

Maura:                 And then when others were complaining about that 5:00 AM meeting, you said, "I've been up for hours, so I don't want to hear it."

Joe:                        That's right.

Joe:                        I wasn't worried about missing the bus.

Maura:                 That is the priceless story. That is absolutely priceless. And do you remember, did you do okay at 3:00 AM?

Joe:                        I did. I remember I got an A on the test.

Maura:                 Well, see that's even more impressive, right?

Joe:                        Yeah.

Maura:                 Right.

Joe:                        Yeah. I didn't get A's on every test but I did get an A on that one. I remember too Coach Pearl, who was the hockey coach at the time, he had a freshman study hall that he had posted on the board up there for the players to go to and I for some reason thought or assumed it was optional, like he would make the time available if you felt you were needing extra study time and otherwise, I was thinking, you just go to the library or maybe you didn't have anything to do that day and so you wouldn't go. So I saw there was a note on the board the day after I had blown off or missed the study hall, wasn't a blow up to me. It said, "Cavanagh, see me." And I did and he said, "What was the story last night? Where were you?" I said, "Well, I thought it was optional coach." He said, "Optional? No, no, no, that wasn't optional."

                                So he said, "Why don't you come meet me up here tomorrow morning at 7:00." And I said, "Okay, I'll be here." And he said, "And wear your workout clothes too." And so I came up to the front of Hart Center I remember this, I think it was a Friday morning and he was there and in a lawn chair outside with the paper in his hand and a stopwatch.

                                And he said, "Okay, Cav, down to the front steps of Kimball and back in less than five minutes or you do it again, go." And I shot down the hill and you wouldn't believe how quickly you can get from the front steps of Hart Center to Kimball when you're going on adrenaline and moving. But the minute you turn around and start going back the other direction, I was like, "Yeah, I'm still sore. I think I blocked it out, the whole experience." But it was demands like that are rearing you and preparing you for bigger things and similar obligations later in life so I had a great experience here playing hockey for Coach Pearl and definitely in reflection appreciate things like that from the community from the kind of the leaders or the instructors here.

Maura:                 Yeah, they make sure you don't forget.

Maura:                 How has your Holy Cross education influenced the way that you practice law?

Joe:                        Well, it's like I was saying earlier, drawing on your academic experiences, your ability to manage time, you're looking at the faith mission of the college and the and the faith foundation that it provides, and then trying to incorporate that into your conversations and your thinking with your clients every day.

Maura:                 Yeah. Yeah. And what has been the most satisfying or rewarding moment in your work?

Joe:                        Well, I mean winning an appeal before the Rhode Island Supreme Court, winning summary judgment on big cases for some clients, those things jump out as kind of the most beneficial legal results. Winning a trial and having it affirmed on appeal in cases. But I think actually the matters that I've seen that have taken twists and turns and sort of winding roads through our superior court with multiple parties over years sometimes and then getting to the end of that road and having a satisfied client that knows that you stuck by them through the whole process and through ups and downs.

                                I've had a couple of those recently and it becomes at times... I don't want to say a war of attrition, but that's it. I mean someone comes into your office and they have something there may be emotionally really stirred up about something that just happened and they want to be in the court the next day and sue everybody and then one of the first conversations you have to have is like, "Listen, this doesn't happen. This is emotion sort of the raw feeling that you're going on right now, by the time we're moving forward in this case it'll probably subside quite a bit and it's going to be down to your legal rights and making sure that you want to keep pursuing those and protect your interests."

                                And then over time, for the clients to see that you are committed to that what I'd call sort of a higher pursuit and them sticking by you and you sticking by them to get to the end of that road where the emotion and the initial sting is sort of well past, those are the most satisfying moments for me.

Maura:                 That's fantastic. Yeah. And I'm sure it's not easy too. I'm sure there are a lot of challenges along the way too and so not easy to stick by. So that's great.

Maura:                 And then my last question for you is what advice would you have for someone who's interested in practicing law?

Joe:                        Well, let's see, I would... like Mary had said, if someone's interested in going to law school, you'd really want to check the motivation and make sure that it's not just a logical next step that they hadn't thought too much about. But I would say that they'd want to go ahead and pursue it, but then keep an eye on how the technology of today is kind of changing the practice of law. I mean, so much is done just at your desk, at your computer on email or phone and see for us we can still comment that that's different and that's not how we began our practices and we can kind of feel the toll of that when you don't have as many face to face interactions with people and you think, "Boy, it's been a while since I've seen this person and why is that because I used to see them all the time."

                                And it's just the change in nature of things so I would think it'd be difficult if you've never practiced law at all where that wasn't the case, where hearings and conferences are routinely done now just by phone and video link and so I think I would tell them to spend time beginning in law school making sure that they spend time with their classmates and have real human interaction there and that they try to do the same with their clients.

Maura:                 Well, and I think that speaks so much to what you both talked about of really finding the human element in your clients and really treating them like the person who they are and how that can get so easily lost with technology, and when things are virtual it's easier to create that distance and it sounds how important it is to really force yourself to make the time for real interactions.

Joe:                        Absolutely. Yeah.

Maura:                 Right. Right.

Joe:                        And with other lawyers too and with judges and clerks and all the people that you come in contact with in a legal practice.

Maura:                 Right, right. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Joe:                        Thank you.

Maura:                 That's our show. I hope you enjoyed hearing about just one of the many ways that Holy Cross alumni have been inspired by the mission to be men and women for and with others.

A special thanks to today's guests and everyone at Holy Cross who has contributed to making this podcast a reality.

If you or someone you know would like to be featured on this podcast, please send us an email at [email protected]. If you like what you hear, then please leave us a review.

This podcast is brought to you by the Office of Alumni Relations at the College of the Holy Cross. You can subscribe for future episodes wherever you find your podcasts.

I'm your host, Maura Sweeney, and this is Mission-Driven. In the words of Saint Ignatius of Loyola, "now go forth and set the world on fire."

---

Theme music composed by Scott Holmes, courtesy of freemusicarchive.org.