Joey Svendsen joins us on the show! He's a pastor and podcaster who chats regularly with theologians, pastors, artists, and more. We chat about mental health, his background, and what led to his semi-recent departure from Bad Christian.

We also discuss why it's so dang hard having grace for Christians, particularly leaders we put on a pedestal. Plus how going deep into a season of bitterness and cynicism for some is all part of the process. Enjoy.