After the report of Independent Commission on the Constitutional Future of Wales restated the case for devolution of justice and policing to Wales, as in Scotland and Northern Ireland (indeed, arguably England, too), it has since become part of the discourse in the Welsh Labour leadership contest.

It has also revealed tensions between the UK and Welsh Labour parties as both the Shadow Secretary of State for Wales Jo Stevens and even the Deputy Leader of Welsh Labour Carolyn Harris have publicly expressed opposition to further devolution of justice and policing, while both Welsh Labour leadership candidates Vaughan Gething and Jeremy Miles have restated their commitment to the full devolution of justice and policing, if elected and leading the future Welsh Government.

Why have proponents been persuaded so convincingly to pursue the creation of a Welsh justice system and legal jurisdiction and why are opponents so unwilling to contemplate it? Why did former Prime Minister Gordon Brown recommend piecemeal devolution of youth justice and probation only? We go deep into the arguments with our guests:

Professor Emyr Lewis - https://twitter.com/EmyrLewis4

Head of the Department of Law and Criminology, Aberystwyth University

Dr Kathy Hampson - https://twitter.com/DrKathyHampson

Senior Lecturer in Criminology, Aberystwyth University

The Thomas Commission Report, 'Justice for Wales, for the People of Wales': https://www.gov.wales/commission-justice-wales-report?_ga=2.14919669.274951169.1708250131-1462820122.1708250131

Emyr's blog about the Rwanda Bill: https://blogs.cardiff.ac.uk/thinking-wales/location-of-aberystwyth-on-the-moon-bill/

Independent Commission on the Constitutional Future of Wales: https://www.useyourvoice.wales/final-report

Gordon Brown's Report for UK Labour: https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Commission-on-the-UKs-Future.pdf

As always, you can find the latest from us here: https://twitter.com/HiraethPod

We hope you find this podcast interesting and useful. Please do send feedback, it's always great to hear what our audience thinks.

Thank you for listening to the podcast. If you have enjoyed it, please leave us a nice rating or comment on your podcast app or on YouTube and, if you are able to do so, please consider supporting our work from just £3/month on Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/hiraethpod