How did you get to where you are today? What would happen to you if something traumatic or incredibly disruptive occurred in your life? We talk about these questions and much more in this episode with Justin Brown, Oklahoma Secretary of Human Services, and former Director of the Oklahoma Department of Human Services (He was director of DHS when we recorded this episode).  Secretary Brown graciously welcomed us to his podcast studio to have this important discussion around poverty, opportunity, race, our social safety nets, and how it all is kind of like a game of Chutes and Ladders. Dive into the analogy with us right now, it might just reframe how you look at poverty, opportunities, and how our community can continue to unite around making this a place where all can flourish.