Kathleen Hebert was crowned Miss Vermont 1972—but her pageant story wasn’t the typical fairytale. After placing first runner-up the year before, Kathleen returned determined to stop performing for approval and start living in truth. What happened next earned her national attention as what she calls “the first radical queen.”

In this episode, Kathleen shares how refusing to be scripted changed everything—from her Miss America experience, to life as a working singer, house cleaner, artist, teacher, and author. She opens up about surviving profound childhood trauma, finding healing through creativity, and why she now teaches others that no talent is required to become an artist—only permission to be yourself.

This is a conversation about resilience, identity, and the freedom that comes when you stop trying to be who the world demands.