It's a frightening time to be an immigrant or a refugee in the United States.

Kathy Cloutier stands in the middle of this chaos. When we spoke, she was the executive director of Dorcas International, providing support and services for newcomers to this country.

Now, she's the executive director of the Refugee Women's Alliance in Seattle, Washington. She joined host David Cicilline to talk about how she's moving forward in this new environment.

Learn more about the Rhode Island Foundation at https://rifoundation.org/.