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Kimi and the Locked Door
#320: Link watched Kimi (2022) and wanted to talk about the portrayal of the main character’s agoraphobia and anxious behaviors. Josué and Lara discuss how context impacts our ability to overcome anxiety, and how other media tries to represent the experience.
Transcript
[PASTE TRAN
Josué Cardona 0:11
Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network. here at Geek Therapy We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves through the media we care about, my name is Josué Cardona. And I’m joined by Lara Taylor.
Lara Taylor 0:21
Hey,
Josué Cardona 0:24
and Link and a baby.
Link Keller 0:26
Wahh
Josué Cardona 0:30
Link, It’s your turn. What are we talking about This week?
Link Keller 0:33
we are talking about a film that came out recently on on HBO Max called Kimi
Josué Cardona 0:41
starring Zoë Kravitz as Kimi.
Josué Cardona 0:44
Starring Zoë Kravitz as Angela Childs.
Josué Cardona 0:49
oh
Link Keller 0:49
Kimi is the name of this world’s Siri, Alexa, the Smart Voice machine that is in it inside of everybody’s houses and is always recording. And Angela works as a moderator functionally, she, she gets the audio pieces from when Kimi is marked as like making a mistake. And she goes in and she’s training Kimi to be to be better. That’s that is a real job that people do. She
Josué Cardona 1:30
so in the movie, they make it sound like nobody else does that. And, and what sets Kimi apart from the other ones, right. And they call them out by name. But like we’re special, because we have someone who’s like we have real people fixing, you know, and working in the background.
Link Keller 1:51
Yes.
Josué Cardona 1:52
But is that is that true?
Link Keller 1:55
I don’t know. I I have always assumed that real people are hands on in training AI to do things because its necessary
Lara Taylor 2:11
otherwise you get random things. Yeah.
Josué Cardona 2:13
Yeah. But to what extent though, right?
Link Keller 2:16
I hope not to the extent that is shown in Kimi,
Josué Cardona 2:20
that’s what I’m thinking. Right? Because the idea is like, machine learning is using tons of other references to learn so because that would be faster. And then in the movie, what they’re saying is, we are special because we still have that human element and like, like AI isn’t there yet. And so we have people doing this. And and yeah, I don’t I don’t know that I would call it moderation, right? I mean, exactly. But she
Lara Taylor 2:52
quality assurance?
Josué Cardona 2:53
I mean, it’s definitely like a QA role, for sure. It is definitely a training a training model, right. Like she is writing, like syntax. She’s like, this thing that a person says, Is this and she’s writing it in a way for the system to understand it in the future, because it didn’t understand it this time, but she does make the the comment at one point that she was a Facebook moderator. And, and kinda the Some similarities in just the the horrible things that she’s that she’s seen. Yeah. Yeah. But I thought that was really interesting to, to think of like to see someone in that role. Because like, we know that there are moderators out there. and we’ve talked about it in the past. I don’t remember if it was on this show, or on. I know we definitely talked about on PsychTech at some point.
Lara Taylor 3:52
I think we talked about it on this show.
Josué Cardona 3:55
Right?
Lara Taylor 3:55
Because we’ve I’ve talked about it with you.
Josué Cardona 3:57
Yeah.
Lara Taylor 3:58
Like yeah, the it was about video games and watching. Like, the artists and designers needing to watch violent material over and over and over again.
Josué Cardona 4:09
Yeah, that was a that was that. Was that a Headshots discussion, too?
Lara Taylor 4:14
We it might have been I mean, we did do some crossover.
Josué Cardona 4:17
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and I remember
Link Keller 4:20
Yeah, I think it’s been on all all of them.
Josué Cardona 4:22
Yeah. Yeah. We haven’t talked about in a long time. And I don’t remember ever seeing this represented in a story. I’m sure you know, this. I’m sure there’s at least one law and order episode. Where we see someone in this role, but to see like a fictional dramatic, you know, version of this when you I mean, it’s gotta be like, you can’t even make a comedy show out of that because it’s too depressing. Like you can make a sitcom out of you know, people who are moderating social media.
Lara Taylor 4:58
You can try,
Link Keller 4:59
you could
Josué Cardona 5:00
But it would be it would it would just feel you’d be glossing over all of the real terrible things.
Link Keller 5:07
I imagine it would feel similar to Brooklyn nine nine’s final season in. It’s like, this is weird. This is not landing.
Josué Cardona 5:15
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I mean, and this movie. It does, it reminds me, you know, I mean, we haven’t even gotten to like, the anxiety stuff. But like, just this piece of it reminds me of part of our discussion about the Mitchell versus the machines. Right? It’s like, sure, that technology, we can talk about that technology, but also, like, let’s not ignore all of the terrible parts of this. I mean, and it is, you know, it is it is leaning into the big bad Corporation type of type of thing or people within the corporation with nefarious intent. But it doesn’t, it feels grounded, in a way. Because it is, you know, it is a device that we we there devices that we have at home that we don’t think about. I don’t think that I mean, some people do think about them this way. But But I think most people don’t.
Link Keller 6:18
I mean, a big part of what goes into designing these, this technology is to make it as unobtrusive as possible. And so there’s very much a encouragement from the user interfaces to be like, don’t don’t think about it. Like you don’t need to think about don’t even worry, don’t fret, your little minds, just, you know, it’s there. And you use it when you need to, and otherwise ignore its existence.
Josué Cardona 6:48
yeah.
Link Keller 6:50
Which is not great. But from a design perspective, like if that’s the intention, they nailed it. Yeah, okay. So basic plot of Kimi is that it takes place in the modern era, post, concurrently, COVID time, and Angela has agoraphobia. And so she works from home, and she does not leave her house. She’s very uncomfortable leaving her house. She has a lot of behaviors that she does that are built into to keep her safe and contained within her home. Which, you know, the agoraphobia aspect is always very interesting. Mental health stuff, but it fits in so nicely with the idea of like, Nah, dog, the whole world is supposed to be inside, like, many people are working from home and have to deal with like, Okay, can I get the things that I need from outside to come to where I am inside. So she’s, she’s working from home. And she gets a message to she’s listening to the audio recordings from Kimi speakers. And she’s going through and she’s fixing, you know, Kimi, teaching Kimi like, you know, that’s a slang term. And this is, you know, like a different pronunciation of something and all that stuff. And she overhears a recording, that sounds like a violent altercation between people. And she immediately tries to report this to people above her. And then, because it’s a thriller, movie, exciting thi...
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By Geek Therapy Network#320: Link watched Kimi (2022) and wanted to talk about the portrayal of the main character’s agoraphobia and anxious behaviors. Josué and Lara discuss how context impacts our ability to overcome anxiety, and how other media tries to represent the experience.
Transcript
[PASTE TRAN
Josué Cardona 0:11
Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network. here at Geek Therapy We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves through the media we care about, my name is Josué Cardona. And I’m joined by Lara Taylor.
Lara Taylor 0:21
Hey,
Josué Cardona 0:24
and Link and a baby.
Link Keller 0:26
Wahh
Josué Cardona 0:30
Link, It’s your turn. What are we talking about This week?
Link Keller 0:33
we are talking about a film that came out recently on on HBO Max called Kimi
Josué Cardona 0:41
starring Zoë Kravitz as Kimi.
Josué Cardona 0:44
Starring Zoë Kravitz as Angela Childs.
Josué Cardona 0:49
oh
Link Keller 0:49
Kimi is the name of this world’s Siri, Alexa, the Smart Voice machine that is in it inside of everybody’s houses and is always recording. And Angela works as a moderator functionally, she, she gets the audio pieces from when Kimi is marked as like making a mistake. And she goes in and she’s training Kimi to be to be better. That’s that is a real job that people do. She
Josué Cardona 1:30
so in the movie, they make it sound like nobody else does that. And, and what sets Kimi apart from the other ones, right. And they call them out by name. But like we’re special, because we have someone who’s like we have real people fixing, you know, and working in the background.
Link Keller 1:51
Yes.
Josué Cardona 1:52
But is that is that true?
Link Keller 1:55
I don’t know. I I have always assumed that real people are hands on in training AI to do things because its necessary
Lara Taylor 2:11
otherwise you get random things. Yeah.
Josué Cardona 2:13
Yeah. But to what extent though, right?
Link Keller 2:16
I hope not to the extent that is shown in Kimi,
Josué Cardona 2:20
that’s what I’m thinking. Right? Because the idea is like, machine learning is using tons of other references to learn so because that would be faster. And then in the movie, what they’re saying is, we are special because we still have that human element and like, like AI isn’t there yet. And so we have people doing this. And and yeah, I don’t I don’t know that I would call it moderation, right? I mean, exactly. But she
Lara Taylor 2:52
quality assurance?
Josué Cardona 2:53
I mean, it’s definitely like a QA role, for sure. It is definitely a training a training model, right. Like she is writing, like syntax. She’s like, this thing that a person says, Is this and she’s writing it in a way for the system to understand it in the future, because it didn’t understand it this time, but she does make the the comment at one point that she was a Facebook moderator. And, and kinda the Some similarities in just the the horrible things that she’s that she’s seen. Yeah. Yeah. But I thought that was really interesting to, to think of like to see someone in that role. Because like, we know that there are moderators out there. and we’ve talked about it in the past. I don’t remember if it was on this show, or on. I know we definitely talked about on PsychTech at some point.
Lara Taylor 3:52
I think we talked about it on this show.
Josué Cardona 3:55
Right?
Lara Taylor 3:55
Because we’ve I’ve talked about it with you.
Josué Cardona 3:57
Yeah.
Lara Taylor 3:58
Like yeah, the it was about video games and watching. Like, the artists and designers needing to watch violent material over and over and over again.
Josué Cardona 4:09
Yeah, that was a that was that. Was that a Headshots discussion, too?
Lara Taylor 4:14
We it might have been I mean, we did do some crossover.
Josué Cardona 4:17
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and I remember
Link Keller 4:20
Yeah, I think it’s been on all all of them.
Josué Cardona 4:22
Yeah. Yeah. We haven’t talked about in a long time. And I don’t remember ever seeing this represented in a story. I’m sure you know, this. I’m sure there’s at least one law and order episode. Where we see someone in this role, but to see like a fictional dramatic, you know, version of this when you I mean, it’s gotta be like, you can’t even make a comedy show out of that because it’s too depressing. Like you can make a sitcom out of you know, people who are moderating social media.
Lara Taylor 4:58
You can try,
Link Keller 4:59
you could
Josué Cardona 5:00
But it would be it would it would just feel you’d be glossing over all of the real terrible things.
Link Keller 5:07
I imagine it would feel similar to Brooklyn nine nine’s final season in. It’s like, this is weird. This is not landing.
Josué Cardona 5:15
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I mean, and this movie. It does, it reminds me, you know, I mean, we haven’t even gotten to like, the anxiety stuff. But like, just this piece of it reminds me of part of our discussion about the Mitchell versus the machines. Right? It’s like, sure, that technology, we can talk about that technology, but also, like, let’s not ignore all of the terrible parts of this. I mean, and it is, you know, it is it is leaning into the big bad Corporation type of type of thing or people within the corporation with nefarious intent. But it doesn’t, it feels grounded, in a way. Because it is, you know, it is a device that we we there devices that we have at home that we don’t think about. I don’t think that I mean, some people do think about them this way. But But I think most people don’t.
Link Keller 6:18
I mean, a big part of what goes into designing these, this technology is to make it as unobtrusive as possible. And so there’s very much a encouragement from the user interfaces to be like, don’t don’t think about it. Like you don’t need to think about don’t even worry, don’t fret, your little minds, just, you know, it’s there. And you use it when you need to, and otherwise ignore its existence.
Josué Cardona 6:48
yeah.
Link Keller 6:50
Which is not great. But from a design perspective, like if that’s the intention, they nailed it. Yeah, okay. So basic plot of Kimi is that it takes place in the modern era, post, concurrently, COVID time, and Angela has agoraphobia. And so she works from home, and she does not leave her house. She’s very uncomfortable leaving her house. She has a lot of behaviors that she does that are built into to keep her safe and contained within her home. Which, you know, the agoraphobia aspect is always very interesting. Mental health stuff, but it fits in so nicely with the idea of like, Nah, dog, the whole world is supposed to be inside, like, many people are working from home and have to deal with like, Okay, can I get the things that I need from outside to come to where I am inside. So she’s, she’s working from home. And she gets a message to she’s listening to the audio recordings from Kimi speakers. And she’s going through and she’s fixing, you know, Kimi, teaching Kimi like, you know, that’s a slang term. And this is, you know, like a different pronunciation of something and all that stuff. And she overhears a recording, that sounds like a violent altercation between people. And she immediately tries to report this to people above her. And then, because it’s a thriller, movie, exciting thi...