From Jim Crow to Civil Rights, it was tenacious and savvy black musicians who paved the way. Suzanne Lang talks with Larry Tye whose book is The Jazzmen, How Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, and Count Basie Transformed America.

Also featured is Carl Unegbu with his book Comedy Goes To Court, When People Stop Laughing and Start Fighting. It’s A Novel Idea, Sunday morning at 10 am PT, streaming and podcasting at krcb.org.