Presenter Mel Cranenburgh winds up 4 years of presenting Backstory today, and joining her are two highly accomplished authors. First, Phillipa (Pip) McGuinness discusses her book 'Skin Deep', which deals with beauty, ageing, health, illness, and interrogating white fragility. Mel and Pip touch on writing about race, skin cancers, and the challenges of mixing history, journalism, interviews, and cultural studies into one book. And author Toni Jordan tells Mel about her book 'Dinner with the Schnabels', a big family drama-dy filled with wit and arch observations. They talk about setups and structure, simile and metaphor-filled character descriptions, world-building, and doing the wrong thing for the right reasons. Website: https://www.rrr.org.au/explore/podcasts/backstory