Welcome to lead now. The pod cast and the Texas Baptist center for effective leadership. Each week we answer your leadership questions and challenges as we are joint by our special guest. This week we've heard from a lot of you that your church's begin new programs, emphasis(?), classes and activities every fall. Still activity isn't necessarily a measure of effectiveness. Given the number of churches that are in decline it can become more reasons administers that their churches aren't headed in the right direction. Still if you have this one to resort this solely numerical measures of effectiveness. This week Ron(?) Harrin(?) director of the center for effective leadership is here to share with us his insight on measuring a church effectiveness and knowing that we're moving in the right direction. Thanks for joining us Ron. I say to be with you Emily. Ron our center has the word effective right at the heart of it's purposes. Can you help our ministers identify some ways base in determine.