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Life has an unerring knack for presenting us with challenges and opportunities for change. Dr. Linda Pettit explores our innate intuitive nature and how we can use that to help us navigate the curves that life brings to us.
Dr. Linda Sandel Pettit is a distinguished author known for her insightful work, including her acclaimed memoir, Leaning into Cuves: Trusting the Wild, Intuitive Way of Love.
With over five decades dedicated to writing, four decades immersed in counseling psychology, and two decades serving as a spiritual mentor, Dr. Linda brings a wealth of experience and expertise to her practice as a speaker, writer and mentor.
Unafraid to delve into divine wisdom, deep feminine knowing, and intuition, Dr. Linda empowers her clients to tap into their innermost truths. Through her guidance, she inspires and facilitates the release of pure love, allowing individuals to express their authentic selves fully.
You can find Linda Pettit at LindaSandelPettit.com and on Instagram at lindasandelpettit.
Click the image below to learn about the Unbroken Community and join the waitlist.
You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below.
Show Notes
Resources Mentioned in this Episode
Alexandra: Dr. Linda Sandel Pettit, welcome to Unbroken.
Linda: Thank you. Good to be here.
Alexandra: It’s lovely to have you here. So why don’t we begin with a bit of your background?
Linda: I have kind of an interesting background. I started out in journalism and public relations. And then I found my way into the helping professions. I was a counseling psychologist for 30 some, 35 years. And now I do speaking, and writing and mentoring.
I came across the Three Principles about what was exactly 21 years ago. So when I met my husband, who many know in the Three Principles world, Dr. Bill Pettit, he’s a psychiatrist. And he had been mentored by Sydney Banks, the man who shared the principles originally. Or boy, even at that point, I think it had been close to 20 years. And so I got introduced through Bill.
Syd was still alive then so he would call our home just about every other weekend. And we would put him on speakerphone and he would teach, share with us. He was very interested in mentoring both of us; Bill as a psychiatrist to me as a psychologist in the understanding.
I will say, it wasn’t an easy immediate sell for me.
Linda: Bill should be the one that it was a pretty, I believe, at one point, as I recall it, it was actually in an airport. We were waiting for a flight and I got so triggered that I said to him, “If you ever mentioned Sydney Banks, again, we are getting a divorce.”
Just to give your listeners, in case they struggle with the understanding, I certainly know that. And in a way, interestingly, it was kind of incremental. Sometimes I would struggle with it. And sometimes I wouldn’t. Because I knew right from the start that there was something there. And I could see that it was settling me so that I was having less and less anxiety.
Then as I began to see that anxiety was entirely thought created. That was really beautiful. It wasn’t something that just parked on me, sat on my head, and I was completely powerless over it. That was my, my primary struggle, I would say, was with being anxious. I’d been pretty anxious all my life.
From the time of being a small child, even to the point of having some degree of obsessive compulsive behaviors, but not a full blown disorder where I had rituals and things. Although I was a counter; I used counting to calm myself, but more just a general, anxious approach to the world and a tendency to worry.
I could see that that was settling down. Although I don’t know that I could have told you exactly why. But it was kind of like, I used to think of it this way that I lived from a place of anxiety. And occasionally, maybe 20% of the time, I would stretch into these areas where I wouldn’t feel anxious, or I wouldn’t feel worried. And I would wonder about that. Where to go? How did that happen? I’m feeling pretty good right now.
As I started to get insight to how powerful thought was, and how thought was creating the experience of being anxious what I gradually felt over a number of years was that it was like, it wasn’t that I didn’t never get anxious again. But the positions reversed. So 80% of the time, I was pretty calm. And 20% of the time, I might stretch into those zones again, where I felt really anxious or worried.
But I knew what was happening. I knew I was innocently using the power of thought to create this experience that was manifesting in my body in the state that I called anxiety. And so gradually I was less and less worried and less and less anxious to the point now where I just really don’t experience it very much more. If I do it’s a momentary fleeting thing and then I come back to myself.
Linda: Yes, really my whole practice was about people who were having a lot of anxiety or depression. I’d always done a lot of work with people in transition who had had some kind of something happen in their lives that interrupted life as they knew it. And they were transitioning to some new understanding and, and along with that was coming this experience of feeling lost or anxious or depressed.
But I was committed to a thought that I had. And the thought was that I was not going to share this understanding professionally, until I really saw it personally. And so I didn’t, even though I was very aware of it and was studying it and learning about it from Bill and from Syd and others in the Three Principles world, I didn’t share it professionally for several years. And then I had an experience, which I actually talked about in my new book.
It was really one of those funny synchronistic experiences where I was kind of ticked off at bill, we, you know, we were newlyweds, and we were struggling a little bit with adjustment. We’re very different people. He’s very extroverted and outgoing. And I just tend to be by my nature, really more quiet, slower tempo. And so we were having some struggles, and I stomped downstairs to my office in a full blown, you know, like, what a jerky is kind of moment, and sat down at my desk.
I reached in for a financial file to do some work on on our finances, because I manage those and I opened the file. And I don’t know how this got there. But on the top of this particular file was an excerpt from the book, The Tao of Pooh by Benjamin Hoff. And I remember thinking, how did that get there? Because I don’t like that book. I had read it. And I didn’t think much of it, which is really in itself pretty interesting. But I read the excerpt and it said, there was a conversation between two of the Pooh characters.
One of them is saying, “Oh, that Winnie the Pooh, he’s just the sweetest, kindest, most loving, tender wise knowing being.”
And the other one says, “Oh, yeah, he is all of that. And it’s just too bad that he’s the exception to the rule.”
And the other one says, “You know, that might be, but what if he’s the rule in action?”
I had this moment, Alexandra, where it was like an insight. And I just thought, what if Bill, because he’s so calm, and he’s so compassionate, and he just rolls with things, and he doesn’t get really upset with me, just kind of stays with me when I’m in these little snippets.
In that moment, I became a student. I thought, you know, what if? What if I don’t have to live with the level of anxiety that I do? What if I don’t have to live with a level of reactivity and drama that I sometimes do? I wasn’t out of control and we never yelled, we never had big, awful arguments or anything. But I walked around more than I wanted to in a feeling of being very stirred up inside.
He had been trying to share the Three Principles. And he will tell you now that he realizes that he was probably trying to be a teacher to someone who wasn’t a student. And so he had a role and what happened, but when I had said to him, finally, you just need to back off, he did back off. And I think when he backed off, and I had the ability to just sort of observe a little bit more without feeling pressured to be different or to change. I just created a space.
And then I found that that excerpt from Hoff’s book and it just became real clear to me that this could be the answer I’ve actually been searching for. The other thing that I think was a factor is that at the time, so this was 22. We’ve got married in 2003 so this was 21 years ago, or 20 to 21 years ago, I think the understanding was being taught primarily as a psychological understanding. And as a psychologist, I was struggling to see:
I was already a student of cognitive therapies and used them in my practice. And I truly didn’t see, I saw glimmers, but not the whole picture, how this was very much different. And what happened for me is that as the spiritual understanding of them fully unfolded, and I began to see, oh, this is the answer to love. This is the answer to how I can stay connected to love.
I’m never severed from it. All of the prior spiritual understandings, and my psychological understanding came together. And that’s when I really started progressing in understanding and began to share it in my practice. And in case there are other helping professionals who might listen to this, when I started sharing it in my practice, I talked with Syd and I said, “I think I want to do this. But I’m not sure that I know how to do it.”
And that is kind of a whole story to what he said, but what he came to was, well, if you’re gonna give this a go and share it purely, don’t try to mix it with other things, just share it purely and see what happens. But, Alexandra, I was so fearful that I wouldn’t be doing my job. Because it was so much less directive than other things. There were no rituals, there were no things people had to do that I decided I would measure every client so that I had proof that they were getting better or not. And I had done that somewhat. But I really started to do it.
I started to do some very high quality instruments, self report instruments, but still well researched, and had every client fill them out every third session. And somewhere that data is buried somewhere, it may have been destroyed, because it was so long ago.
I actually started to get very good data that people were getting better, significantly faster. I could sense that I could see it anecdotally. But I also had the data to back it up to the point that actually I had insurance companies, because mostly in mental health then and I think still now a lot of payment comes through third party payers in the United States. I would have insurance companies call me up and say, How are you producing these results?
Alexandra: Wow. That’s amazing.
Linda: So the results sort of hooked me it was kind of like, Oh, okay.
Alexandra: There’s someone here.
Linda: And I never looked back from that point. I ran a solely Three Principles based practice for a very long time.
Alexandra: I love hearing that. That’s great. I didn’t know any of that. That’s lovely.
Along those lines, I wanted to talk about transformative change today. And one of the things on this is one of the topics that you speak about and on your speakers page. In the section for mastering transformative change you talk about intuitive knowing and I love this phrase being our life raft.
Linda: Yes. So where the principles point is, is that we are all sourced in this formless energy. You could call it many names; I like to call it love, or wisdom or intuitive knowing. It’s a source that as I see it is evolving. It’s creating. It’s conscious, it’s aware, it’s moving through us. We are made of it. We are one of the forms of it.
One of the forms that it takes in us is thought. So I literally see myself as being pulsed through with thought. But I also see myself as been having been given the gift of thought to use, however I choose to. I have this incredible power with thought to create anything out of any experience or circumstance that’s in front of me. And yet I also see that there is a divine aspect to it, that of always moving in the direction of love, always moving in the direction of higher evolution, higher consciousness, more common sense, more peace, more joy, more brilliance.
If we’re aligned with that, if our thinking and divine thinking is aligned, then life is beautiful, even the most difficult experiences in life, and have their own beauty. And so I think about now, and so many of us feel so adrift, I was talking to a woman yesterday who is a developmental psychologist, and she was saying to me parents, she’s a young woman, and she’s got young children. She said, parents right now are feeling very adrift. They don’t know how to a parent.
We’re coming out of this generation where, and in this therapeutic environment that says that what parents did many years ago was was terribly traumatic. And most of us were raised with a lot of trauma and a lot of challenge and we’re all in therapy dealing with that.
We don’t want to do what was done to us. We don’t know what to do want to do it our parents to do us. But how do you do this? How do you do it when you’re dealing with behavior. And you’re dealing with a world that feels so chaotic. And you’re dealing with circumstances that our parents didn’t have to deal with.
I have a daughter who’s going to be 40 this year, who has two young children. And not long ago, she had her little little guys were locked down in their school, because there was an active shooter near the campus. Now, it wasn’t, thankfully was not a terribly dangerous situation. But the children did go through an event where they were locked in a room and knew that someone was outside the school with a gun. And so my daughter had to had to process that with her kids, and she has to process safety issues with her kids that I didn’t have to deal with.
That’s just one example, people feel right now very adrift and very uncertain. And it feels like a lot of structures that held held my generation or the generation in front of me, and maybe the one right after me into place have crumbled. And they’re looking for answers. And what if the answers are always inside of us? What if the answers are always in our intuitive knowing?
I trust that. I absolutely trust that in my life. But part of why I trusted is because I tested it. As I wrote my book, Leaning Into Curves, as I look back on a lot of experiences, I really saw that what at the time, I thought were sort of mystical experiences that were special to me. Especially because I’m a woman. Women are supposed to be more intuitive. I now look at that and I just laugh. It’s like no, no, wasn’t anything special about that. That’s how life works. That’s how love works.
I document in the book that when I met both of my husbands it actually happened both times. The moment I met them, something clicked inside of me. And I knew in both situations that I was meant to have long term relationships with both men.
Now with my first husband that was really interesting because he was a Roman Catholic priest. And was actively practicing at the time and he was also going into alcoholism treatment the next morning, the night I met him. He was 20 years older than I so he was an unlikely soulmate Believe me. But I knew because of what I say is that the eyes of love flew wide open and in that instant, and I saw possibility. I saw something that could be created and I knew it.
Same thing with Bill my my current husband. The day I met him there was something that happened, and also a couple synchronicities that happen that I won’t go into right at this moment. But that made me pay attention. And I thought, there’s something here. I remember the thought, which I describe in the book, I am meant to have a personal or professional relationship with this man, I just don’t know which, but that we are going to be connected going forward was really clear to me.
If I ask, I will get all the information I need to know what to do next. I know that that’s absolutely 100% true for all of us that we are sourced in love, are made of love, love is intuitively guiding us. And if we can remember that more and more and more and little, little by little by little, and look for that, then all these things that look so big and so problematic, and so complex and conflicted. We’ll find our way through them was one of the things that actually motivated me to write the book, I was already writing it.
I had a number of reasons for writing it. But one of the things that really caused my own motivation to leave for leap forward was that I ran across two articles. One was in The New York Times, and one was in The Washington Post. So these are pretty big newspapers in the United States. And one of them was an article about therapists, and how therapists were being asked to integrate the intuitive arts into their therapy practices.
So this there, this reporter was interviewing therapists who were saying, Oh, my gosh, I’m being asked to to help people figure out oracle cards and shamanistic practices and psychic visits. And I don’t know anything about those things. Or, or I do know a lot about those things. I’m really excited about the fact that my clients are bringing these things up. Because what I read was, Oh, my clients are wanting to know about the spiritual dimension of life.
The part of life that that unfortunately and dangerously, we have dismissed as woowoo or as unscientific and impractical. And so people were at least going into their therapists and saying, You know what, I think there’s something here. I think there’s something in the spiritual stuff.
So it was coming from the ground up that therapists were being asked to address the spiritual and the intuitive, which I see is one in the same thing.
The other article, which was even more fascinating, I’m not sure which paper was in but someone had decided had somehow gotten wind of the fact that psychics across the country during the pandemic were busier than ever. And so they sent a team of reporters out and sure enough all across the country. They’re they’re dealing with psychics of all kinds; clairvoyance, clairaudience, card readers, crystal ball gazers, everything, and they’re all saying the same thing. Oh, my gosh, we can barely take more clientele, because we are so busy.
I read that and thought, oh, isn’t that interesting that if you don’t, and I’m not discrediting those arts, there’s no doubt. Can we all have access to intuition? And there are many spiritually evolved people who have very special gifts in that area, who can be really helpful to us. But the reality is, the truth is, the deep absolute truth is that that psychic knowing, that intuitive knowing that wisdom is inside all of us.
That was a beautiful thing that I had seen with the Three Principles understanding that yes, we are guided, yes, there is Mind behind life. It is coming through us through the divine thought system. And all we have to do is turn our attention to it and it’s right there. It’s just right there. And it always has the next right answer.
All I can say is that’s why I wrote my book is because my life has been proof of that. And the book is a set of stories about how that came through to me and how that affected my life decisions, including some really, really big difficult experiences. So that’s why I see coming back to your question. That’s why I see. intuitive knowing is a life raft is it’s, it’s cheap.
It’s inside. It just takes getting a little quiet. Just takes getting into a little bit of a beautiful feeling. Takes trusting it, asking for it. And it’s right there.
Linda: Actually, I thought of one that wasn’t from the book. Let me see which one from the book that I would want to talk about. Oh, I there’s one that comes to mind.
When my first husband, my late husband and I, we had been married a number of years, and we wanted to go live in West Virginia. A pathway opened up for me to go to doctoral school in West Virginia. We had no money. How many times do people come to me and they say, I want to do XYZ. But I have no money. I hate my job. I want to do something different. But I have no money. You hear that a lot.
And people will have these ideas. But money is the obstacle or money is the block. And we didn’t have any money and doctoral school was expensive.
I talked to my mentor, and this is described in the book, his name was Bob and I said, Bob I, and how I even got to him. I did not go in with a question about my life. I actually went in with a question about my daughter and are having some struggles. She has temper tantrums. And I’m not exactly sure how to deal with it. Bob had said to me, I don’t really think this is about Laura’s temper tantrums, I think this is about you not paying attention to something that’s coming up in you that wants to assert its independence, that wants you to assert your independence.
I thought about that, and I came back to him. And I said, Yeah, I really want to do something new with my life. I want to go to doctoral school in psychology. I said, Well, we don’t have the money. And he said, what’s the first step? And I said, Well, the first step is to take the Graduate Record Exam. So how much does that cost? So I don’t know 75 bucks. Have you got 75 bucks? Yeah. Then you got money to go to got doctoral school, then go take the first step. So I did.
But then I got admitted. And my late husband, Jim and I needed to move to West Virginia to where I’d gotten admitted, didn’t have any money. We went looking for housing, and couldn’t find housing, finally did find housing, put a security deposit on it. But really didn’t have money to pay for anything beyond the security deposit or to pay for school.
And then Jim started looking for jobs down in West Virginia. We started to do what made sense to do. But the moment came for us to take the apartment that we had found. And we still didn’t have funding for my doctoral program, Jim still didn’t have a job. We were facing a moment of decision. And we both went inside intuitively, kind of sat together and said, Let’s just really consider this because this is our make or break moment. Either we choose it, or we don’t. We have to we have to choose.
We both came out of that and said, Well, what came to you? And we said to each other, we got green lights. We got to go ahead. But how? Well, we’d paid for the security deposit and the first month’s rent, we had that covered. And a plan clicked into place where Jim would stay at his job up in Toledo, Ohio, and I would go down to West Virginia and occupy the new space. So we found a way to get through the next couple of months. I was living down there. He was living up in Ohio, commuting back and forth. So we got those two months covered.
But then we came to the second point. I’m supposed to start school on Monday. It’s Wednesday, the week before I still don’t have a job, the university still hasn’t been able to find me a teaching position. Jim still doesn’t have a job. So we’re on the phone together. What do we do? Do we abort? Do we say we’ve got to stop? And again, we listened within and, and both of us just said green light, clear green light. Jim went into his employer and said, Okay, I am following through my two weeks notice is up on Friday, I will be leaving and going down to West Virginia. He came down to West Virginia on Friday.
Friday morning, I got a call from the director of training at West Virginia University and he said, I think I found you a job. I want you to go talk to this woman who’s in another department, ed psych. And I went and talked to her and bottom line, I got a teaching job that paid my entire way through doctoral school. I ended up with not a dime of debt. I taught my butt off. I worked really hard.
What was really interesting is: Jim came down, and the following Monday, back to back, it was almost like because he had made the decision. And we had committed back to back three calls that offered him jobs in West Virginia. And by the end of that first week, he was gainfully employed. There’s a movie, it’s one of the Crocodile Dundee movies, there’s a place where Harrison Ford is being chased by the bad guys. And he comes to a big crevasse, a huge canyon. And his spiritual teacher is on the other side.Hecan’t figure out how to get to the other side. And the spiritual teacher says jump.
That’s what happens. He jumps and the bridge shows up and he gets across and then the bridge disappears. And the bad guys can’t chase him. That’s what happened was that it took jumping. And then the bridge appeared. And it took trusting that intuitive knowing and and the life raft just showed up. And we were off on an entirely new chapter of life.
I’ll tell you a really little story about that. This is not in the book. After my first husband died, suddenly in an automobile accident on Christmas Eve, about two weeks later, I was in a really bad state as anyone who’s known a sudden bereavement that comes really shocking. It’s a big challenge to the system. And I was beside myself with anxiety; I was agitated, and I was walking around the house just not able to sit still. I couldn’t think straight, and having a really difficult time. I I remember being so overwhelmed, I thought I’m going to crawl out of my skin, this is going to kill me, my heart is going to explode, I’m in such a bad place.
I asked for help. I said, God, you gotta help me because I don’t know how to get through this. And all of a sudden, I heard this voice in my head, like a very gentle patient, I don’t even know androgynous sort of voice that said, “Linda, go write your thank you notes.” And I thought, “Go write my thank you notes?” And I thought, well, that is a task that I have to get done.
So I went over and I sat and and my late husband had been a missionary priest for 20 years and he had connections all around the world. And I had gotten scores of emails from people this was when email was brand new, who had known him saying what a wonderful man he was. While going through all those notes, going through all the bereavement cards I’d gotten my heart just kept getting filled up over and over and over again. I realized as I was sitting there, wow, I’m calm again. I’ve come back to myself.
Now if I wrote a book on grief, and I said, here’s a to do. When you feel really anxious and overwhelmed in your bereavement, write your thank you notes. I think I would highly discredit myself. But that was a common sense, intuitive knowing that came in that moment that saved me. It spared me tremendous pain and tremendous difficulty and brought me back to myself.
I could document dozens of moments where my journey through grief was all about that, that in the moment, there would just be an insight that got me through the next thing, and I began to really trust that.
Alexandra: Oh, that’s lovely. So beautiful. Thank you for sharing those stories. I really enjoyed that.
Just before we start to wrap up, I’d love to ask you about what about when things go wrong? We trust a feeling I guess is what I mean. Have you encountered that at all?
Linda: Absolutely. I think that there are lots of different ways I could come at explaining what I see about that. But one of them is that sometimes, something that originally looks like, oh, that didn’t turn out the way I expected it to, or I thought it should or could, in the long run proves to be the better choice. And we see with the value of elapsed time. Oh, that was perfect.
There’s a beautiful book out right now that people are talking about called The Butterfly Effect. It’s very simple little book that really talks about that beautifully that we just don’t know how in the grand scheme of things. That certain answers that we get that seem counterintuitive, actually are intuitively right.
And then sometimes I think there’s a timing delay. I’ve had many times when I’ve asked for help, and it seems like nothing happened. And I once heard, a woman named Mary Webb Martin, she was actually presenting alongside Sydney Banks at the last, I think it was the last event I heard Syd speak at, she shared this metaphor. And she said, sometimes I think life is like your she said, I’m a sailor, I’ll get out on the water. And my sails have caught the wind. I’m just skating along enjoying it.
Then the wind dies down. And there’s nothing, and I don’t have a motor. And so I can’t go anywhere, I’m just really feeling stuck. But all I have to do is have faith that the winds will pick up and when the winds pick up, I’ll be able to move again in in a certain direction. And Syd said that’s a really beautiful metaphor. Because there are a lot of moving parts to life. There are a lot of moving parts to life. And there’s a lot that goes on behind the scenes that we don’t always know about.
We don’t appreciate the mystery of that. But sometimes we just have to wait for the moving parts to align. And there’s a quote. He says, When you accept the mystery, you join the mystery. And so when I have moments like that, that it feels like something that I thought I was being intuitively guided toward, didn’t work doesn’t work out, or it doesn’t work out on a timetable that I expect it. I’ve just come to know that there’s something bigger afoot and to trust the mystery of that.
Alexandra: That sailing metaphor, that’s one I’ve used on myself as well that I remember reading a book about a fellow sailing from here, Vancouver Island, to Hawaii, and how inevitably, you usually get to a space in the Pacific Ocean where the wind completely goes and you can’t turn on the motor because you don’t have enough petrol to get to Hawaii. So you just have to wait it out. And, of course, just like you said, inevitably, the wind does pick up again. So yeah, I love that.
Linda: Sometimes it takes you in a new, better direction. Just because you’ve been committed to a change in direction. The change happens.
Alexandra: Yeah, absolutely. Well, this has been such a pleasure, Linda, thank you so much for talking to me today.
Linda: Ebook, paperback and hardback. And the audio book is forthcoming. I’m going to be recording that myself. So it should be available pretty soon.
Alexandra: I will put links in the show notes so that people can can find that as well.
Linda: I think we started to talk about transformative change. I love working with people who are going through transformative change and transformative change is not the kind of change that most of us go through, we change our hairstyle. It’s usually some life event critically disrupts the path we’ve been on; could be a job, change a job loss or loss of someone in our life, business disruption could be anything.
I love working with people who are going through transformative change, big change. And in the therapeutic community right now, there’s a lot of focus on trauma informed therapy. But one of the things that’s not being talked about enough is, I think, is that many, many people experience huge amounts of post traumatic growth. They actually not only return to their baseline functioning, they exceed it.
The transformative experience becomes a spiritual portal for transcendent spiritual growth. So what I found in working with people is that one of the things that we need to do is allow space for grief. We need to allow space to mourn and embrace the embodiment you talked about being in a body, being in a physical life and having to deal with sometimes the big context sport of life.
And then I think a big step in that is forgiving life, that we got handed tough circumstances to deal with forgiving life and forgiving ourselves in thinking that we weren’t big enough to rise to the challenge. Because the spiritual nature that we have is always capable of rising to that challenge. And then if we ask for help, and listen, there will always be the intuitive knowing the desires that point us in new directions. And then from that point, it’s just about embracing the desire and consciously creating from that desire.
Alexandra: Lovely, beautiful, thank you.
Linda: Probably the easiest place and thank you for asking. You’ve been such a wonderful, thoughtful, gentle podcast host.
My website. LindaSandelPettit.com
Alexandra: I will put a link to that as well in the show notes. Well, thank you so much, Linda. It’s been such a pleasure.
Linda: It has been. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me.
Alexandra: Oh, my pleasure. Take care. Bye bye bye.
Featured image photo by Jesse Bowser on Unsplash
The post Leaning Into Curves with Dr. Linda Pettit appeared first on Alexandra Amor Books.
By Alexandra Amor4.4
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Life has an unerring knack for presenting us with challenges and opportunities for change. Dr. Linda Pettit explores our innate intuitive nature and how we can use that to help us navigate the curves that life brings to us.
Dr. Linda Sandel Pettit is a distinguished author known for her insightful work, including her acclaimed memoir, Leaning into Cuves: Trusting the Wild, Intuitive Way of Love.
With over five decades dedicated to writing, four decades immersed in counseling psychology, and two decades serving as a spiritual mentor, Dr. Linda brings a wealth of experience and expertise to her practice as a speaker, writer and mentor.
Unafraid to delve into divine wisdom, deep feminine knowing, and intuition, Dr. Linda empowers her clients to tap into their innermost truths. Through her guidance, she inspires and facilitates the release of pure love, allowing individuals to express their authentic selves fully.
You can find Linda Pettit at LindaSandelPettit.com and on Instagram at lindasandelpettit.
Click the image below to learn about the Unbroken Community and join the waitlist.
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Show Notes
Resources Mentioned in this Episode
Alexandra: Dr. Linda Sandel Pettit, welcome to Unbroken.
Linda: Thank you. Good to be here.
Alexandra: It’s lovely to have you here. So why don’t we begin with a bit of your background?
Linda: I have kind of an interesting background. I started out in journalism and public relations. And then I found my way into the helping professions. I was a counseling psychologist for 30 some, 35 years. And now I do speaking, and writing and mentoring.
I came across the Three Principles about what was exactly 21 years ago. So when I met my husband, who many know in the Three Principles world, Dr. Bill Pettit, he’s a psychiatrist. And he had been mentored by Sydney Banks, the man who shared the principles originally. Or boy, even at that point, I think it had been close to 20 years. And so I got introduced through Bill.
Syd was still alive then so he would call our home just about every other weekend. And we would put him on speakerphone and he would teach, share with us. He was very interested in mentoring both of us; Bill as a psychiatrist to me as a psychologist in the understanding.
I will say, it wasn’t an easy immediate sell for me.
Linda: Bill should be the one that it was a pretty, I believe, at one point, as I recall it, it was actually in an airport. We were waiting for a flight and I got so triggered that I said to him, “If you ever mentioned Sydney Banks, again, we are getting a divorce.”
Just to give your listeners, in case they struggle with the understanding, I certainly know that. And in a way, interestingly, it was kind of incremental. Sometimes I would struggle with it. And sometimes I wouldn’t. Because I knew right from the start that there was something there. And I could see that it was settling me so that I was having less and less anxiety.
Then as I began to see that anxiety was entirely thought created. That was really beautiful. It wasn’t something that just parked on me, sat on my head, and I was completely powerless over it. That was my, my primary struggle, I would say, was with being anxious. I’d been pretty anxious all my life.
From the time of being a small child, even to the point of having some degree of obsessive compulsive behaviors, but not a full blown disorder where I had rituals and things. Although I was a counter; I used counting to calm myself, but more just a general, anxious approach to the world and a tendency to worry.
I could see that that was settling down. Although I don’t know that I could have told you exactly why. But it was kind of like, I used to think of it this way that I lived from a place of anxiety. And occasionally, maybe 20% of the time, I would stretch into these areas where I wouldn’t feel anxious, or I wouldn’t feel worried. And I would wonder about that. Where to go? How did that happen? I’m feeling pretty good right now.
As I started to get insight to how powerful thought was, and how thought was creating the experience of being anxious what I gradually felt over a number of years was that it was like, it wasn’t that I didn’t never get anxious again. But the positions reversed. So 80% of the time, I was pretty calm. And 20% of the time, I might stretch into those zones again, where I felt really anxious or worried.
But I knew what was happening. I knew I was innocently using the power of thought to create this experience that was manifesting in my body in the state that I called anxiety. And so gradually I was less and less worried and less and less anxious to the point now where I just really don’t experience it very much more. If I do it’s a momentary fleeting thing and then I come back to myself.
Linda: Yes, really my whole practice was about people who were having a lot of anxiety or depression. I’d always done a lot of work with people in transition who had had some kind of something happen in their lives that interrupted life as they knew it. And they were transitioning to some new understanding and, and along with that was coming this experience of feeling lost or anxious or depressed.
But I was committed to a thought that I had. And the thought was that I was not going to share this understanding professionally, until I really saw it personally. And so I didn’t, even though I was very aware of it and was studying it and learning about it from Bill and from Syd and others in the Three Principles world, I didn’t share it professionally for several years. And then I had an experience, which I actually talked about in my new book.
It was really one of those funny synchronistic experiences where I was kind of ticked off at bill, we, you know, we were newlyweds, and we were struggling a little bit with adjustment. We’re very different people. He’s very extroverted and outgoing. And I just tend to be by my nature, really more quiet, slower tempo. And so we were having some struggles, and I stomped downstairs to my office in a full blown, you know, like, what a jerky is kind of moment, and sat down at my desk.
I reached in for a financial file to do some work on on our finances, because I manage those and I opened the file. And I don’t know how this got there. But on the top of this particular file was an excerpt from the book, The Tao of Pooh by Benjamin Hoff. And I remember thinking, how did that get there? Because I don’t like that book. I had read it. And I didn’t think much of it, which is really in itself pretty interesting. But I read the excerpt and it said, there was a conversation between two of the Pooh characters.
One of them is saying, “Oh, that Winnie the Pooh, he’s just the sweetest, kindest, most loving, tender wise knowing being.”
And the other one says, “Oh, yeah, he is all of that. And it’s just too bad that he’s the exception to the rule.”
And the other one says, “You know, that might be, but what if he’s the rule in action?”
I had this moment, Alexandra, where it was like an insight. And I just thought, what if Bill, because he’s so calm, and he’s so compassionate, and he just rolls with things, and he doesn’t get really upset with me, just kind of stays with me when I’m in these little snippets.
In that moment, I became a student. I thought, you know, what if? What if I don’t have to live with the level of anxiety that I do? What if I don’t have to live with a level of reactivity and drama that I sometimes do? I wasn’t out of control and we never yelled, we never had big, awful arguments or anything. But I walked around more than I wanted to in a feeling of being very stirred up inside.
He had been trying to share the Three Principles. And he will tell you now that he realizes that he was probably trying to be a teacher to someone who wasn’t a student. And so he had a role and what happened, but when I had said to him, finally, you just need to back off, he did back off. And I think when he backed off, and I had the ability to just sort of observe a little bit more without feeling pressured to be different or to change. I just created a space.
And then I found that that excerpt from Hoff’s book and it just became real clear to me that this could be the answer I’ve actually been searching for. The other thing that I think was a factor is that at the time, so this was 22. We’ve got married in 2003 so this was 21 years ago, or 20 to 21 years ago, I think the understanding was being taught primarily as a psychological understanding. And as a psychologist, I was struggling to see:
I was already a student of cognitive therapies and used them in my practice. And I truly didn’t see, I saw glimmers, but not the whole picture, how this was very much different. And what happened for me is that as the spiritual understanding of them fully unfolded, and I began to see, oh, this is the answer to love. This is the answer to how I can stay connected to love.
I’m never severed from it. All of the prior spiritual understandings, and my psychological understanding came together. And that’s when I really started progressing in understanding and began to share it in my practice. And in case there are other helping professionals who might listen to this, when I started sharing it in my practice, I talked with Syd and I said, “I think I want to do this. But I’m not sure that I know how to do it.”
And that is kind of a whole story to what he said, but what he came to was, well, if you’re gonna give this a go and share it purely, don’t try to mix it with other things, just share it purely and see what happens. But, Alexandra, I was so fearful that I wouldn’t be doing my job. Because it was so much less directive than other things. There were no rituals, there were no things people had to do that I decided I would measure every client so that I had proof that they were getting better or not. And I had done that somewhat. But I really started to do it.
I started to do some very high quality instruments, self report instruments, but still well researched, and had every client fill them out every third session. And somewhere that data is buried somewhere, it may have been destroyed, because it was so long ago.
I actually started to get very good data that people were getting better, significantly faster. I could sense that I could see it anecdotally. But I also had the data to back it up to the point that actually I had insurance companies, because mostly in mental health then and I think still now a lot of payment comes through third party payers in the United States. I would have insurance companies call me up and say, How are you producing these results?
Alexandra: Wow. That’s amazing.
Linda: So the results sort of hooked me it was kind of like, Oh, okay.
Alexandra: There’s someone here.
Linda: And I never looked back from that point. I ran a solely Three Principles based practice for a very long time.
Alexandra: I love hearing that. That’s great. I didn’t know any of that. That’s lovely.
Along those lines, I wanted to talk about transformative change today. And one of the things on this is one of the topics that you speak about and on your speakers page. In the section for mastering transformative change you talk about intuitive knowing and I love this phrase being our life raft.
Linda: Yes. So where the principles point is, is that we are all sourced in this formless energy. You could call it many names; I like to call it love, or wisdom or intuitive knowing. It’s a source that as I see it is evolving. It’s creating. It’s conscious, it’s aware, it’s moving through us. We are made of it. We are one of the forms of it.
One of the forms that it takes in us is thought. So I literally see myself as being pulsed through with thought. But I also see myself as been having been given the gift of thought to use, however I choose to. I have this incredible power with thought to create anything out of any experience or circumstance that’s in front of me. And yet I also see that there is a divine aspect to it, that of always moving in the direction of love, always moving in the direction of higher evolution, higher consciousness, more common sense, more peace, more joy, more brilliance.
If we’re aligned with that, if our thinking and divine thinking is aligned, then life is beautiful, even the most difficult experiences in life, and have their own beauty. And so I think about now, and so many of us feel so adrift, I was talking to a woman yesterday who is a developmental psychologist, and she was saying to me parents, she’s a young woman, and she’s got young children. She said, parents right now are feeling very adrift. They don’t know how to a parent.
We’re coming out of this generation where, and in this therapeutic environment that says that what parents did many years ago was was terribly traumatic. And most of us were raised with a lot of trauma and a lot of challenge and we’re all in therapy dealing with that.
We don’t want to do what was done to us. We don’t know what to do want to do it our parents to do us. But how do you do this? How do you do it when you’re dealing with behavior. And you’re dealing with a world that feels so chaotic. And you’re dealing with circumstances that our parents didn’t have to deal with.
I have a daughter who’s going to be 40 this year, who has two young children. And not long ago, she had her little little guys were locked down in their school, because there was an active shooter near the campus. Now, it wasn’t, thankfully was not a terribly dangerous situation. But the children did go through an event where they were locked in a room and knew that someone was outside the school with a gun. And so my daughter had to had to process that with her kids, and she has to process safety issues with her kids that I didn’t have to deal with.
That’s just one example, people feel right now very adrift and very uncertain. And it feels like a lot of structures that held held my generation or the generation in front of me, and maybe the one right after me into place have crumbled. And they’re looking for answers. And what if the answers are always inside of us? What if the answers are always in our intuitive knowing?
I trust that. I absolutely trust that in my life. But part of why I trusted is because I tested it. As I wrote my book, Leaning Into Curves, as I look back on a lot of experiences, I really saw that what at the time, I thought were sort of mystical experiences that were special to me. Especially because I’m a woman. Women are supposed to be more intuitive. I now look at that and I just laugh. It’s like no, no, wasn’t anything special about that. That’s how life works. That’s how love works.
I document in the book that when I met both of my husbands it actually happened both times. The moment I met them, something clicked inside of me. And I knew in both situations that I was meant to have long term relationships with both men.
Now with my first husband that was really interesting because he was a Roman Catholic priest. And was actively practicing at the time and he was also going into alcoholism treatment the next morning, the night I met him. He was 20 years older than I so he was an unlikely soulmate Believe me. But I knew because of what I say is that the eyes of love flew wide open and in that instant, and I saw possibility. I saw something that could be created and I knew it.
Same thing with Bill my my current husband. The day I met him there was something that happened, and also a couple synchronicities that happen that I won’t go into right at this moment. But that made me pay attention. And I thought, there’s something here. I remember the thought, which I describe in the book, I am meant to have a personal or professional relationship with this man, I just don’t know which, but that we are going to be connected going forward was really clear to me.
If I ask, I will get all the information I need to know what to do next. I know that that’s absolutely 100% true for all of us that we are sourced in love, are made of love, love is intuitively guiding us. And if we can remember that more and more and more and little, little by little by little, and look for that, then all these things that look so big and so problematic, and so complex and conflicted. We’ll find our way through them was one of the things that actually motivated me to write the book, I was already writing it.
I had a number of reasons for writing it. But one of the things that really caused my own motivation to leave for leap forward was that I ran across two articles. One was in The New York Times, and one was in The Washington Post. So these are pretty big newspapers in the United States. And one of them was an article about therapists, and how therapists were being asked to integrate the intuitive arts into their therapy practices.
So this there, this reporter was interviewing therapists who were saying, Oh, my gosh, I’m being asked to to help people figure out oracle cards and shamanistic practices and psychic visits. And I don’t know anything about those things. Or, or I do know a lot about those things. I’m really excited about the fact that my clients are bringing these things up. Because what I read was, Oh, my clients are wanting to know about the spiritual dimension of life.
The part of life that that unfortunately and dangerously, we have dismissed as woowoo or as unscientific and impractical. And so people were at least going into their therapists and saying, You know what, I think there’s something here. I think there’s something in the spiritual stuff.
So it was coming from the ground up that therapists were being asked to address the spiritual and the intuitive, which I see is one in the same thing.
The other article, which was even more fascinating, I’m not sure which paper was in but someone had decided had somehow gotten wind of the fact that psychics across the country during the pandemic were busier than ever. And so they sent a team of reporters out and sure enough all across the country. They’re they’re dealing with psychics of all kinds; clairvoyance, clairaudience, card readers, crystal ball gazers, everything, and they’re all saying the same thing. Oh, my gosh, we can barely take more clientele, because we are so busy.
I read that and thought, oh, isn’t that interesting that if you don’t, and I’m not discrediting those arts, there’s no doubt. Can we all have access to intuition? And there are many spiritually evolved people who have very special gifts in that area, who can be really helpful to us. But the reality is, the truth is, the deep absolute truth is that that psychic knowing, that intuitive knowing that wisdom is inside all of us.
That was a beautiful thing that I had seen with the Three Principles understanding that yes, we are guided, yes, there is Mind behind life. It is coming through us through the divine thought system. And all we have to do is turn our attention to it and it’s right there. It’s just right there. And it always has the next right answer.
All I can say is that’s why I wrote my book is because my life has been proof of that. And the book is a set of stories about how that came through to me and how that affected my life decisions, including some really, really big difficult experiences. So that’s why I see coming back to your question. That’s why I see. intuitive knowing is a life raft is it’s, it’s cheap.
It’s inside. It just takes getting a little quiet. Just takes getting into a little bit of a beautiful feeling. Takes trusting it, asking for it. And it’s right there.
Linda: Actually, I thought of one that wasn’t from the book. Let me see which one from the book that I would want to talk about. Oh, I there’s one that comes to mind.
When my first husband, my late husband and I, we had been married a number of years, and we wanted to go live in West Virginia. A pathway opened up for me to go to doctoral school in West Virginia. We had no money. How many times do people come to me and they say, I want to do XYZ. But I have no money. I hate my job. I want to do something different. But I have no money. You hear that a lot.
And people will have these ideas. But money is the obstacle or money is the block. And we didn’t have any money and doctoral school was expensive.
I talked to my mentor, and this is described in the book, his name was Bob and I said, Bob I, and how I even got to him. I did not go in with a question about my life. I actually went in with a question about my daughter and are having some struggles. She has temper tantrums. And I’m not exactly sure how to deal with it. Bob had said to me, I don’t really think this is about Laura’s temper tantrums, I think this is about you not paying attention to something that’s coming up in you that wants to assert its independence, that wants you to assert your independence.
I thought about that, and I came back to him. And I said, Yeah, I really want to do something new with my life. I want to go to doctoral school in psychology. I said, Well, we don’t have the money. And he said, what’s the first step? And I said, Well, the first step is to take the Graduate Record Exam. So how much does that cost? So I don’t know 75 bucks. Have you got 75 bucks? Yeah. Then you got money to go to got doctoral school, then go take the first step. So I did.
But then I got admitted. And my late husband, Jim and I needed to move to West Virginia to where I’d gotten admitted, didn’t have any money. We went looking for housing, and couldn’t find housing, finally did find housing, put a security deposit on it. But really didn’t have money to pay for anything beyond the security deposit or to pay for school.
And then Jim started looking for jobs down in West Virginia. We started to do what made sense to do. But the moment came for us to take the apartment that we had found. And we still didn’t have funding for my doctoral program, Jim still didn’t have a job. We were facing a moment of decision. And we both went inside intuitively, kind of sat together and said, Let’s just really consider this because this is our make or break moment. Either we choose it, or we don’t. We have to we have to choose.
We both came out of that and said, Well, what came to you? And we said to each other, we got green lights. We got to go ahead. But how? Well, we’d paid for the security deposit and the first month’s rent, we had that covered. And a plan clicked into place where Jim would stay at his job up in Toledo, Ohio, and I would go down to West Virginia and occupy the new space. So we found a way to get through the next couple of months. I was living down there. He was living up in Ohio, commuting back and forth. So we got those two months covered.
But then we came to the second point. I’m supposed to start school on Monday. It’s Wednesday, the week before I still don’t have a job, the university still hasn’t been able to find me a teaching position. Jim still doesn’t have a job. So we’re on the phone together. What do we do? Do we abort? Do we say we’ve got to stop? And again, we listened within and, and both of us just said green light, clear green light. Jim went into his employer and said, Okay, I am following through my two weeks notice is up on Friday, I will be leaving and going down to West Virginia. He came down to West Virginia on Friday.
Friday morning, I got a call from the director of training at West Virginia University and he said, I think I found you a job. I want you to go talk to this woman who’s in another department, ed psych. And I went and talked to her and bottom line, I got a teaching job that paid my entire way through doctoral school. I ended up with not a dime of debt. I taught my butt off. I worked really hard.
What was really interesting is: Jim came down, and the following Monday, back to back, it was almost like because he had made the decision. And we had committed back to back three calls that offered him jobs in West Virginia. And by the end of that first week, he was gainfully employed. There’s a movie, it’s one of the Crocodile Dundee movies, there’s a place where Harrison Ford is being chased by the bad guys. And he comes to a big crevasse, a huge canyon. And his spiritual teacher is on the other side.Hecan’t figure out how to get to the other side. And the spiritual teacher says jump.
That’s what happens. He jumps and the bridge shows up and he gets across and then the bridge disappears. And the bad guys can’t chase him. That’s what happened was that it took jumping. And then the bridge appeared. And it took trusting that intuitive knowing and and the life raft just showed up. And we were off on an entirely new chapter of life.
I’ll tell you a really little story about that. This is not in the book. After my first husband died, suddenly in an automobile accident on Christmas Eve, about two weeks later, I was in a really bad state as anyone who’s known a sudden bereavement that comes really shocking. It’s a big challenge to the system. And I was beside myself with anxiety; I was agitated, and I was walking around the house just not able to sit still. I couldn’t think straight, and having a really difficult time. I I remember being so overwhelmed, I thought I’m going to crawl out of my skin, this is going to kill me, my heart is going to explode, I’m in such a bad place.
I asked for help. I said, God, you gotta help me because I don’t know how to get through this. And all of a sudden, I heard this voice in my head, like a very gentle patient, I don’t even know androgynous sort of voice that said, “Linda, go write your thank you notes.” And I thought, “Go write my thank you notes?” And I thought, well, that is a task that I have to get done.
So I went over and I sat and and my late husband had been a missionary priest for 20 years and he had connections all around the world. And I had gotten scores of emails from people this was when email was brand new, who had known him saying what a wonderful man he was. While going through all those notes, going through all the bereavement cards I’d gotten my heart just kept getting filled up over and over and over again. I realized as I was sitting there, wow, I’m calm again. I’ve come back to myself.
Now if I wrote a book on grief, and I said, here’s a to do. When you feel really anxious and overwhelmed in your bereavement, write your thank you notes. I think I would highly discredit myself. But that was a common sense, intuitive knowing that came in that moment that saved me. It spared me tremendous pain and tremendous difficulty and brought me back to myself.
I could document dozens of moments where my journey through grief was all about that, that in the moment, there would just be an insight that got me through the next thing, and I began to really trust that.
Alexandra: Oh, that’s lovely. So beautiful. Thank you for sharing those stories. I really enjoyed that.
Just before we start to wrap up, I’d love to ask you about what about when things go wrong? We trust a feeling I guess is what I mean. Have you encountered that at all?
Linda: Absolutely. I think that there are lots of different ways I could come at explaining what I see about that. But one of them is that sometimes, something that originally looks like, oh, that didn’t turn out the way I expected it to, or I thought it should or could, in the long run proves to be the better choice. And we see with the value of elapsed time. Oh, that was perfect.
There’s a beautiful book out right now that people are talking about called The Butterfly Effect. It’s very simple little book that really talks about that beautifully that we just don’t know how in the grand scheme of things. That certain answers that we get that seem counterintuitive, actually are intuitively right.
And then sometimes I think there’s a timing delay. I’ve had many times when I’ve asked for help, and it seems like nothing happened. And I once heard, a woman named Mary Webb Martin, she was actually presenting alongside Sydney Banks at the last, I think it was the last event I heard Syd speak at, she shared this metaphor. And she said, sometimes I think life is like your she said, I’m a sailor, I’ll get out on the water. And my sails have caught the wind. I’m just skating along enjoying it.
Then the wind dies down. And there’s nothing, and I don’t have a motor. And so I can’t go anywhere, I’m just really feeling stuck. But all I have to do is have faith that the winds will pick up and when the winds pick up, I’ll be able to move again in in a certain direction. And Syd said that’s a really beautiful metaphor. Because there are a lot of moving parts to life. There are a lot of moving parts to life. And there’s a lot that goes on behind the scenes that we don’t always know about.
We don’t appreciate the mystery of that. But sometimes we just have to wait for the moving parts to align. And there’s a quote. He says, When you accept the mystery, you join the mystery. And so when I have moments like that, that it feels like something that I thought I was being intuitively guided toward, didn’t work doesn’t work out, or it doesn’t work out on a timetable that I expect it. I’ve just come to know that there’s something bigger afoot and to trust the mystery of that.
Alexandra: That sailing metaphor, that’s one I’ve used on myself as well that I remember reading a book about a fellow sailing from here, Vancouver Island, to Hawaii, and how inevitably, you usually get to a space in the Pacific Ocean where the wind completely goes and you can’t turn on the motor because you don’t have enough petrol to get to Hawaii. So you just have to wait it out. And, of course, just like you said, inevitably, the wind does pick up again. So yeah, I love that.
Linda: Sometimes it takes you in a new, better direction. Just because you’ve been committed to a change in direction. The change happens.
Alexandra: Yeah, absolutely. Well, this has been such a pleasure, Linda, thank you so much for talking to me today.
Linda: Ebook, paperback and hardback. And the audio book is forthcoming. I’m going to be recording that myself. So it should be available pretty soon.
Alexandra: I will put links in the show notes so that people can can find that as well.
Linda: I think we started to talk about transformative change. I love working with people who are going through transformative change and transformative change is not the kind of change that most of us go through, we change our hairstyle. It’s usually some life event critically disrupts the path we’ve been on; could be a job, change a job loss or loss of someone in our life, business disruption could be anything.
I love working with people who are going through transformative change, big change. And in the therapeutic community right now, there’s a lot of focus on trauma informed therapy. But one of the things that’s not being talked about enough is, I think, is that many, many people experience huge amounts of post traumatic growth. They actually not only return to their baseline functioning, they exceed it.
The transformative experience becomes a spiritual portal for transcendent spiritual growth. So what I found in working with people is that one of the things that we need to do is allow space for grief. We need to allow space to mourn and embrace the embodiment you talked about being in a body, being in a physical life and having to deal with sometimes the big context sport of life.
And then I think a big step in that is forgiving life, that we got handed tough circumstances to deal with forgiving life and forgiving ourselves in thinking that we weren’t big enough to rise to the challenge. Because the spiritual nature that we have is always capable of rising to that challenge. And then if we ask for help, and listen, there will always be the intuitive knowing the desires that point us in new directions. And then from that point, it’s just about embracing the desire and consciously creating from that desire.
Alexandra: Lovely, beautiful, thank you.
Linda: Probably the easiest place and thank you for asking. You’ve been such a wonderful, thoughtful, gentle podcast host.
My website. LindaSandelPettit.com
Alexandra: I will put a link to that as well in the show notes. Well, thank you so much, Linda. It’s been such a pleasure.
Linda: It has been. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me.
Alexandra: Oh, my pleasure. Take care. Bye bye bye.
Featured image photo by Jesse Bowser on Unsplash
The post Leaning Into Curves with Dr. Linda Pettit appeared first on Alexandra Amor Books.