Former NFL players Jonathan Casillas and Marcus Smith II discuss balancing internal self-talk and what they hope to pass on to their kids. Marcus and Jonathan reminisce about past instances when they allowed people to overstep boundaries and why they now care more about being a good guy – not a nice guy.

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This episode was produced by Keith Weiner. Show design by Jenn Hu, Molly Eddington, and Eber Marin. Copy editing and quality analysis by Jess Johnson. Special thanks to Vanessa Detwiler for supporting this program through email marketing.