In this episode of Dylan and Wes Interview, we dive deep into why Lee Cronin says today's "AI" is a powerful tool, not a mind. He argues doomsday AGI stories lack a mechanism, while the real risks are fake people, poisoned data, and manipulation. We unpack his idea that causation is "memory" in the universe, selection is a force like gravity, and life is "complex stuff at scale" (assembly theory). Then we map intelligence as evolution -> sensing -> memory -> consciousness -> imagination -> free will, and why curiosity is the safe balance between exploration and exploitation for survival.