A discussion with Lee McBride, who teaches in the Department of Philosophy at The College of Wooster in Wooster, Ohio where he also serves as Chair of Africana Studies. He writes on a wide range of issues in American philosophy, the pragmatist tradition, and topics of race, affect, and political justice. He is the author of Ethics and Insurrection: A Pragmatism for the Oppressed, published in 2021 by Bloomsbury and this book is the occasion for our conversation today. In this conversation, we discuss the origins of the book, the place of pragmatism in thinking about race, justice, and liberation work, pessimism and hope, the importance of recasting John Dewey’s thought, and the transformative work and influence of Leonard Harris’ notion of an insurrectionist ethics.