In this BJSM podcast Brooke Patterson hosts Prof Lorimer Moseley AO and Dr Ebonie Rio, physiotherapists and international leaders in pain science. This is a fascinating discussion about how we increase our ability as clinicians and to “own the modern science” and explain pain to patients. We discuss the “warm-up phenomena” with painful tendons, the competing demands of self-protection and performance, and how we can help change the internal conversations that patients have about their pain.