Ukraine’s battlefield has transformed since the Russian full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022: from hobby quadcopters to drone and robot units in almost every brigade. In this episode, Lesia Ogryzko and Leo Litra speak with Lyuba Shupovich, CEO and co-founder of Dignitas Fund, and Gustav Gressel, a former ECFR senior policy fellow. Together, they discuss how technology, like drone and electronic warfare, is redefining military tactics—and what Europe can learn, having faced several Russian drone incursions into NATO airspace.

What would a multi-layered, cost-effective air defence against drones look like? How quickly can Ukraine train NATO countries? And how can both Europe and Ukraine fix their financing gaps to reduce their dependency on Chinese components?

This episode was recorded on September 24th 2025

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