This week, for our first episode after the birthday of Abraham Lincoln, I chat with author and CNN senior political analyst John Avlon about Lincoln's underappreciated plan for post-Civil War peace--and how we can apply its lessons today. Avlon's new book, Lincoln and the Fight for Peace, explores both how Lincoln's character fostered his vision for achieving a just and secure peace after the Civil War and how Lincoln's plans informed future peacemakers.

We spoke about popular applied history and why it matters, Lincoln's qualities and their application to issues of war and peace, Andrew Johnson's disastrous turn away from Lincoln's plan for Reconstruction and its effects, and the influence of Lincoln's peace vision on everyone from Woodrow Wilson to Lucius Clay to Douglas MacArthur.

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo with engineering assistance from Ian Enright. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

Among the works cited in this episode:

Lincoln and the Fight for Peace by John Avlon

Washington's Farewell: The Founding Father's Warning to Future Generations by John Avlon

CNN's Reality Check with John Avlon

Lincoln's Code: The Laws of War in American History by John Fabian Witt 

Lincoln by David Herbert Donald

Abraham Lincoln, A Life (two volumes) by Michael Burlingame

9/11 Memorialization with Marita Sturken, Chatter Podcast, January 25, 2022

Wingnuts: Extremism in the Age of Obama by John Avlon

Accidental Presidents: Eight Men Who Changed America by Jared Cohen

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