Jen Haddix and I collaborated. I went on her show, Self-love Yogi, and she came on Unabashed You. You heard her in episode 84 Start by Healing Yourself. After listening to the episode on her show, I thought UY listeners would benefit from our conversation.

This time with Jen reminds me to do the work of healing, to offer grace to those who are doing their best, which is hopefully everyone in your life, and to be confident in who you are. Apologies are for behavior not for being you.

Here is our conversation on Jen’s show through Spotify: Let's Stop Saying Sorry with Rechelle.

The Unabashed You website has a page for each guest of photos, quotes and a blog with embedded audio at unabashedyou.com. You can find the show on other podcast platforms.  Want to lend your support and encouragement? We invite you to follow, rate, review and share.

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TRANSCRIPT (not edited for errors)

Participant #1:

Welcome to Unabashed U Conversations. To become who you already are. The focus at UI is to be who you are without apology, for you are one of a kind, without equal. Be encouraged, as these conversations will help you think, celebrate who you are, and move you in some way your companion to the whimsy and beauty of the human spirit. Rochelle Condy. Now, Jen Haddocks and I collaborated. I went on her show Selflove Yogi and she came on Unabashed You. You heard her in episode 84. Start by healing yourself. After listening to the episode on her show, I thought UI listeners would benefit from our conversation.

Participant #1:

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Self Lavioki Podcast. Today's episode is another interview episode, and I had Rochelle Renee from Unabashed You podcast. On my podcast, we did a little collaboration, and in our conversation, we talked a lot about the dreaded word sorry and how women especially tend to be really over apologetic and use justifying language. And we talked a lot about why that happens, how to curb it, how to start to bring awareness into it. It is admittedly, one of my biggest bad habits is apologizing for everything. I still do it. I still work on this to this day. And so I really, really enjoyed this conversation. I hope you like it as much as I did. I put everything in the show notes about how you can contact her if you're interested. And here we go. Okay. Welcome, Rochelle, to the Self Pave Yogi podcast. This is Rochelle from Unabashed You podcast. And I've invited her to be on mine, and I just think she's got some wonderful Nuggets to share with us that go along the same line of self love that I like to share. We're very aligned mentally and spiritually, I think. And so I think it's going to be a really good conversation. How are you today? I am doing really well. It's an honor to be here. I'm excited about our collaboration. You came on my podcast, and now I'm coming on yours. Why not? I know. I love it so much, and I love collaborating and sharing. And I was just talking to her on her podcast about there's no need to have that lack mindset. We're all in this together, sharing her beautiful gifts. And so it's really cool to have you here. Absolutely. My pleasure. So we're just going to start off I just want you to tell me about you, your podcast, what it is that you're doing and how you got here. Okay. That's wonderful. I am a native San Diego, so I live in San Diego, California. That's kind of a fun fact. And I'm part of a blended family of kids that are his, mine, ours, and theirs. So that's kind of a fun fact to there. And through my career, I was a classroom teacher. I worked in children's theater for another huge chunk of my career, bringing performing arts programs to students all over our county, hiring, teaching artists, mentoring them, writing scripts, being the face of that part of the company. Wonderful time. Had a great time. I kind of got this slow burning kind of nudge and yearning about twelve years ago or so when the podcast thing kind of I'm sure it started a little bit before that. But around that time, I started listening to a podcast, and I was like, this is really a new, weird, different thing, right? And I kind of had it in the back of my mind that'd be really cool to do sometime. And then you just sort of dismissed a little nudge, right? Time goes on. Time goes on. I'm loving what I'm doing. I realize I'm heading into act three here of my life, and what do I want to do with my act three? And I realize I've spent a lot of years with kids, which has been wonderful. I've spent a lot of years nurturing, teaching artists of varying ages. I love that. And now what sort of life that I want to play with? And that podcast notion came back to the forefront in a huge way. And it became just a burning desire, like, oh, my gosh, well, what would I call it? What would it be about? I mean, those creative things. And then right before Gosh, right before Cope had hit, I had my exit strategy for the job I was at, and I ended up moving that up because of Copen. Now when you have Copen and schools are suddenly closing, you can't do performances for your parents anymore. So my job ended in that way. I was just three months more going to leave anyway. And they knew that it was all very wonderful, and they knew I had more that I wanted to try. So it just sped up my timeline and of course, the awfulness of COVID, for sure, where I don't want to discount the devastation, the deaths, all of that, and the lingering effects of it still a horrible time of world history. I mean, we all went through this together, really, in that time, so many people, I think, rediscovered, discovered themselves, I think, in hopefully a good and healthy way, which is what I did. I didn't live in a state of fear. I just chose like, okay, I'm going to do the smart things, but then that's all I can do. I'm not going to wallow in a place of worry and handwriting and being on the news 24/7. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to do the smart things, and I'm going to move forward. And that's how unabashed you got started. That's the super long winded answer. Now, the thing I really wanted to speak into was a very paralleling your arena of self love, which is this idea that actually originally the show was designed to be for women. Okay? And it was unabashed. You women talking about stuff. That was the tagline, right. As time went on, I realized that men were listening and they were like, Whoa, wait a minute. What you're saying is not just specific to women. It also applies to us. And I went, oh, okay. And then we ended up the tagline now being conversations to become who you already are. I love that. Isn't that great? So good. And I love my platform knows how I feel about men and women. There's a lot of coaches in the online space that only coach women. I personally think that men need healing, too, and I like inviting them into any space that I can. I do have primarily female listeners, but there are men there, and I want to be you've got a space as well where they can listen and go, oh, okay. That applies to me as well. And I can apply that to my own life. Right. So the whole idea behind it was to have almost a movement of please be who you are fully and don't apologize for that. I noticed amongst my friend groups and just culturally, particularly as women, we apologize for so many things. I do it all the time. Yup. Yes. And so that was part of the realization I had was we've got to stop apologizing for all these things. And one of the funniest illustrations of this for me. And you're way too young for this reference, but Mary Tyler Moore show, I remember her. Okay. Actually, I didn't really watch, but I remember her. Yeah, okay. It's a classic show. It's on one of the streaming platforms I highly recommended. Jerry Seinfeld has called it one of his favorite show of all time. High praise. Mary is being interviewed by the rough and tumble Lou Grant, played by Ed. Asner for those of us who might know who that is, she bumps into a desk and she looks to the desk and says, oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. She apologizes to the desk. And he was like, what just happened? You apologize to a desk? Who is this? So that's kind of a funny illustration of a point. And taking it to its extreme that we as particularly as women, men have their own set of stuff, but I can't speak fully into that. We are too apologetic. Now, am I saying that you should never apologize? No, I'm not saying that sometimes when we choose a behavior or have a pattern of poor behavior, that's a place to apologize. I'm so sorry that I was short with you just that then blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's the time to apologize for behavior that wasn't the best it could have been. But to be who you are. No, we're not going to apologize for that. I'm not going to apologize for being animated or all that sometimes. And I'm not going to apologize when I need to recharge. And I'm saying to my husband, okay, got to have quiet time. I need my quiet time. And then he better understand, like, I am an introvert now, would you know that right now? No, you would not know that you could charge by yourself. I need, like chunks of quiet and alone and all of that. I know that better about myself now. I don't need to apologize for that. I'm not an extrovert. I have moments of animation and fun and all of that. But that doesn't energize me. Anyway, you're speaking to something that I think we might have found our topic that we really want to lean into today, because just as a side note, because I am right and I'm finding that as I get older, the less I want to apologize for myself. And so I'm 36. One of my best friends is 38. We talk about how the closer we get to 40, we're getting closer to having the buckets where we're just not as invested in what other people think of us. And so do you feel like that is something that has gotten better for you with 100%? Oh, absolutely. And it just goes back to the big theme or notion or I want it to be a reality, not just an idea, but that you get to be you. You are one of a kind. You are without equal. So why should you apologize for that? And if someone doesn't is not into that? Well, that's not your problem. Yeah, they're not your people. They're them and not everybody messages to everybody. And that's okay. I think if you are respectful and kind, it's all good. It's all good. So where do you think that that compulsive need, especially for women, but I know men probably do it, too, but I have found that men don't apologize nearly as much as we do. In my experience, my boyfriend is very much unapologetic. Like, he's very sweet and kind, but he's very masculine and he doesn't really apologize for anything. It's awesome. I learned from him. But where do you think our compulsive need to say sorry comes from? I think if I really stop and think about it, it's probably originated in a people pleasing place. And when we look at studies and I wish I could cite them and I won't be able to, and that's okay. But they talk about in, like, the classroom, how at first girls and boys are fully themselves and they raise their hand in equal numbers. And then as years go on, the girls don't raise their hands as much as the boys. So something kind of shifts and starts happening. I don't exactly know what the message that we receive as girls, but I don't know. I think part of it is people pleasing. Part of it's fully gender related. And I think that's one of the reasons why studies also show other studies that if girls go to an all girls high school, that kind of goes away. That affects a primal thing going on there, too, because there is sort of that like masculine, feminine. And just from like a I can't cite anything very well either. So I don't have any studies to cider any scientific. But just like looking back on just sort of the roles of men and the roles of women over history, I wonder if it's sort of like a nurture versus nature type thing where there's a little bit of it nurtured and a little bit of it is just nature, and then we just kind of fall into that, which is like, I'm sure it's fine for some things, but clearly in the world we live in now, it's not necessary to behave that way anymore. Right. So it's an interesting thing. Well, and another point that kind of is another facet of this is qualifying language. This is something else that women do. And this is something that a guest who's a young woman who was one of the teaching artists I hired and worked with back in that career I had on the show, and she talked about somebody that she knew that was teaching her to stop with the qualifying language. Notice how many, in addition to saying you're sorry for things, and I'm not talking about behavior. Sure. Notice how often we say, just, I was just doing this, or if you're late for something, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. I just had to. And she says now she intentionally will say thank you for being so patient while I ran late. And it just shifts the whole thing. So every time she has to type something out, she goes back and she says, if I put in the word just and it really doesn't belong, I take it out. And same with speaking and this whole notion of qualifying language, I thought, oh, my gosh, that is so good. What does that mean exactly? Qualifying language? Because you're qualifying it. You're saying, oh, I just had to do that last thing. And it puts you in this position of almost coming across as less than I appreciate you being so patient and waiting for me. That is more of like an equal stance. Yeah. It feels full and it feels good as opposed to coming, oh, I'm so sorry. They just had an accent on the previous time. I don't know. I don't know. I can't even fully articulate it. I just know since I talked to her, I paid great attention to that kind of language that I use and really trying to take it out. And again, Ing, we talked about this on a Badge of you podcast. How ing we're always in because we're in the process. We're not done. It's very hard to get to the edges, be comfortable with the fact that the Ed is not exactly right and it's fluid. It's not static. No, not at all. We should probably Google qualifying language and get back to each other with what we found because I don't know enough about it to articulate it much more than I have or much more than the kind of the quick glance she gave to me and shared with the listeners. I just know that it caused a shift in me. And that's one of the reasons I am very fulfilled by doing what I'm doing in the same way you are being fulfilled by what you're doing. Because I am getting all these wisdom Nuggets along with everybody else. And if I don't already know it, I want to impart it and have it become part of who I am and what I do. And if I do know it, I need a reminder on it always because we need to hear things over and over and over again. So if that is true for me, I think that's true for everybody. And sometimes in the parental role or maybe if you're a pet owner, you're like, how many times do I have to say this? Yeah, you have to say it a lot because kids, adults, people need reminders and sometimes it comes differently from different people. Right? So you'll hear something a million times and then somebody else will say the same thing. I'm sure as a parent, you probably are like, why did that work on you? When I said yes, you're like, oh, they said that. Okay, good to know in inward bubble. Oh my gosh, I've said that to you. You've said that I'll hear something in a book. And like the book I'm reading now, I read five years ago, I'm in a different place. I'm hearing it differently. And I think that after this conversation I have never paid attention to my guests and I've always known that sorry was an issue. And so I will be more mindful after hearing this. I learned from all my guests and everything too. So it's absolutely, really cool that this is just a consistent give and take of healing and love and information. And so it's really cool. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. When you and I spoke on Unabashed, you that episode that will be coming out soon, just that concept of ing is now just so at my forefront. And I really appreciate that. Isn't that cool? I love it. So cool. And I love it too. That's one tool that I guess we could share with people as far as how to maybe soften on the sarees and the qualifying language. And I don't know, do you have anything else, any other negative wisdom around that topic that could maybe help people? I like to try to give people things they can take away from this. Absolutely. 100%. Now I'm going to pay attention if I say just and what else can they do? Well, the sorry and the just, those are really two good things to pay attention to. It's a good place to start or when we're all in process. What am I talking about? Yes. So being unapologetic being full of yourself. Another one, I would think. And I feel it's really important. And this is not around qualifying languages. We're shifting sort of topics, but it's still under that self love, self fulfillment sort of journey. And that is the realization that people do the best they can. And if it wasn't enough for what you wanted or needed, you now need to take that ball and run with it and get what you want or you need it. Okay. I can just apply that directly to being a parent. If I were parenting now, I would do things pretty differently than I did them then, but that's what I need to do at that time. The same thing is true of since we're all here, we all have parents. We may not end up having kids, but we all had parents. Yeah. I can remember reaching this point in my own sort of self journey of realizing the limitations of both my mother and my father and realizing, oh, okay, they did the best they could do at the time. If I have areas of need or want or holes or heartbreak or whatever, it's now my job to finish giving me and speaking into and learning and get therapy or books or journaling or whatever it is for you or all of the above, I'm now responsible for the rest. It wasn't their job. Their job is done. They did what they could do. They did what they knew to do. They did their best. And really, I should honor that by finishing it out myself, not by just so many people are stuck in the past. Stuck. The groove and the record. They just. Oh, gosh, do you even know what? I hope you know what the vinyl is okay. Yeah, just stuck in a groove. Just stuck. And when you listen to them, they can't get out of there's. Payoff in the pain. For whatever reason, there's payoff for them in staying in that place. Yes, there is. And I'm sad. And that almost makes me teary to think that people stay stuck. You don't need to stay stuck. I wouldn't even begin to have the audacity to be able to tell them how to fully get unstuck. I know there are lots of tools and lots of ways to get help. I don't know how you help create a fire under someone like that to want to get unstuck. It's like the horse, the old you can leave the horse alone, but you can't make a drink. Okay. It's that whole thing. Somebody has to want to get unstuck as soon as they want to get unstuck. There's so much that they can do. But there can't be any more payoff in the pain or that has to not be working anymore for them to like, you know what? It's time that person died. 20 years ago, 20 years of my life have gone by. I'm still there, and I don't want to dismiss anybody's grief, because like everyone else, I've got my own. You don't get out of here without experiencing heartbreak. Heartache kind of part of the experience, I think. Grief, yes. Sometimes my butts should be ants. And that's another one I've been really working on is the butt. This is not a but it's an. And I would invite your listeners to when they've gone through something grievous, the death of a loved one, or fill in the blank, whatever that grief is, that trauma is when they're far enough removed in the process and the work that they do in their healing journey to turn around and look behind them and see what good came from that. Is there any good that came from that? And if there is good that came from that, can I name it? Can I claim it? That is huge. I have done that kind of work myself. And it is liberating. Absolutely. It is absolutely freeing. It takes your grief and turns it into the ultimate gift. Because that person that passed, they're not coming back. No. So why not? For why you torture yourself for years and years. Yes. And honestly, would they want that for you? Come on. But you're touching on something really important that I kind of want to circle back to, sort of like you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. And the girl that I had on my podcast last week, we were talking about psychedelics for healing. And we were just talking about how as somebody who is healing like you and I are, and we've got all these tools, and we're watching people suffer, and we just want so badly to help them. If we could just get you to see these amazing tools, you wouldn't have to suffer. But it's not really up to us. Right. And that's something that I think is really hard for all of us with the people that we love. And a quote that she quoted Ram Das, and I'm going to Butcher it. And it was beautiful. Just about the best thing that you can do for me is heal yourself. And the best thing I can do for you is heal myself. And through that mutual healing. So people will heal just by watching you. And even if they're not ready to meet you at your level, you're probably not ready to meet somebody else at their own level. We can heal each other by just being examples and doing our best because that's all we have control over. Yes. Snap, snap, snap, snap. Love it. But I think it's a really cool thing that you've brought that up, because it is hard because I know a lot of people are hurting because they are feeling victimized by their past. And it's hard for them to let it go. And it's hard for them to look at their parents as unhealed people who did their best. But that is the work. That is the work. That's the work. That is the work. And honestly, we both know if you don't do the work, you stay stuck and you don't get the most out of this experience of this thing we call life. Exactly. So I think it's a really powerful negative wisdom that I really hope can resonate with anybody. And it's hard, too, because I know when you're in it, I'm sure a few years ago you've been in it before where you're just in your shit. And it doesn't look like there's a way out. If you just take little tiny baby steps of some kind every day, you will eventually get yourself out. Absolutely. I agree with you all the way. And yeah, you have to have that desire to want to get out. You do. Nobody can give that to you. No. My whole audience knows my story about my mom. But that was one of the things that my mom was a drug addict. We put her in rehab. We tried so hard to help her. She did not want to be helped. Right. There you go. And that was one of the biggest lessons. And I was like, okay, so you cannot force people. And she was there for a reason. She died early for a reason. She came on Earth. And I don't regret it at all. And so if you can look at the people in your life and just go, okay, like you said, the parents are doing the best they can with what they have. And when you're a kid, you don't have those tools. But when you're an adult, you do. So you can take the ball and you can run it to that yardline, whatever that looks like for you. And you can give yourself. Absolutely. And a lot of that's awareness. And hopefully through conversations like this that will help share and shed some light on that awareness so that people might be like, oh, wait a minute. That might apply to me and start kind of that sense of thinking. And I love the word pondering. And they can kind of ponder it and then maybe do something with it. Yeah, exactly. And you're just planting little seeds. So my podcast, these conversations, anything you do, it's just a little seed. Yes. Amen love that consciousness. Right. So I have loved this so much. And I want you to just do a little bit of shameless self promotion. You can tell us where to find you and how to listen to your stuff. If you website any of that, just tell us all about it. All right. If any of this spoke to you and you would like to hop on over to Unabashed you. That's the name of the show. It's on most every podcast platform there is. There are so many, it's hard to keep up. I understand that. Same place for Facebook and Instagram, same name. And for some reason, we'd like to email me [email protected]. So it's all pretty self explanatory. We welcome new listeners and want everybody to be who they are without apology. Yes, and I will put all of that in the show notes in case you can't spell on a batch of you or you don't remember and you want to look at it later, it will all be there for you anyway. So wonderful. Thank you for being here. Thank you. Honestly, truly thank you for this collaboration, for coming up with this idea because I think we were both very blessed by the collaboration experience. Thank you. Thank you very much. All right, take care. Talk soon.

Participant #1:

This time with Jen reminds me to do the work of healing to offer Grace to those who are doing their best, which is hopefully everyone in your life and to be confident in who you are. Apologies are for behavior, not for being you. The Unabashed U website has a page for each guest filled with photos, quotes and a blog with embedded [email protected]. You can find the show on other podcast platforms. Want to lend your support and encouragement? We invite you to subscribe, follow, rate, review and share on Instagram and Facebook. You can find us under Unabashed you if you want to connect. The email is [email protected] for questions, comments and anything else. If you want to be part of our weekly emailing list highlighting the week's episode, give us a shout. We'd be happy to add you and your info will never be shared. Website visits, social media and word of mouth in sharing these episodes makes us discoverable. So thanks for your support there. We want these conversations to help you think, celebrate who you are and move you in some way. Be encouraged as you continue to listen, read and be inspired. And now for our blessing, we ask for healing. We ask to be whole we ask to be fully who we are and to share what we have with others. If we do, then we are all woven together beautifully and can do all kinds of things so go forward and be that do that be an abashed be you Amen.