In this episode we talk with Anne Kervers. Anne is a PhD candidate who focuses her research on A New Normative Framework for Corporate Debt. Anne in fascinated by money and money creation. She explains how money is created and how her perspective on money has changed over time. We talk about growth, economic growth and other ways to measure growth. Next to that, we talk about protesting and how to protest in times of a pandemic. We discuss Extinction Rebellion NL, of which she is a rebel. Thank you for Rethinking with us. Enjoy the episode!