I was thrilled to welcome the Rev. Rosy Fairhurst to the Liminal Theology Podcast. Rosy is an Anglican Priest working as Vicar at St Augustine & St Clement Bradford in Bradford, England. She is also an organizational analyst offering organizational analytic skills combined with a spiritual and theological dimension. Rosy has worked as a trainer, researcher, theological educator, pastor,and writer. She is the author of Uncovering Sin: A Gateway to Healing and Calling published by SPCK in 2012. Most recently she co-authored Crossing Thresholds: A Practical Theology of Liminality.

Rosy and I had an amazing conversation covering a variety of topics related to liminality. We began by looking at the liminality of Rosy’s journey to the priesthood, ordination, and the overall social experience of Bradford, England. Next, we explored her interest in developmental psychology and the work of Donald Winnicott. Together we talked about transitional spaces and objects, religious iconography, and the important distinction between independence and interdependence. Rosy was a wonderful guest and I very much enjoyed her deep insight and wisdom. I know that you will also enjoy Rosy’s perspective on liminality.

Learn more:

https://www.lutterworth.com/product/crossing-thresholds-a-practical-theology-of-liminality/?attribute_format=ePub

https://www.heartandanchorbd3.org/

Twitter (@rosyfair)

It was a pleasure to welcome the Reverend Canon Dr. Nigel Rooms to the Liminal Theology Podcast! Nigel is a freelance consultant, trainer and researcher, spiritual director, and architect of learning. Nigel is currently Associate Priest at St. Peter’s, Braunstone Park in Leicester. Nigel holds a Master’s degree in Mission and Ministry from Nottingham University and a Professional Doctorate (ThD) in Missiology from Birmingham University. He is a published author of books and journal articles in mission and contextual theology. He is also a missiologist, practical theologian, and editor of the journal Practical Theology. Nigel is a Leader with the Partnership for Missional Church UK, Church Mission Society. Most recently, he co-authored Crossing Thresholds: A Practical Theology of Liminality, published by Lutterworth Press.

Nigel and I had an engaging conversation that had us exploring liminality from a variety of perspectives. Nigel opened by describing his background, particularly his journey into the priesthood and the academic work that followed. From there we explored liminality using Nigel's perspective and experience, which he then connected with his work in Crossing Thresholds. Nigel helpfully provided background on the book and why it's important as a work of practical theology. As practical theologians, Nigel and I had much to talk about regarding how we viewed theology and the relevance practical theology has for the study of liminality. Finally, Nigel described the Church's transition and how priests, pastors, and church leaders can offer helpful spaces for meaningful change as the Church slowly moves away from its mid-twentieth century perspective.

It was a joy to talk with Nigel! I learned much from him and I'm sure you will too!

Learn more:

Crossing Thresholds: A Practical Theology of Liminality

Twitter (@NigelRooms)

Emmanuel Buteau returns for a new episode of the Liminal Theology Podcast! Emmanuel and Jonathan Best explore contemporary issues and concerns through practical theology and liminality.

In this special Christmas episode, Emmanuel and Jonathan reflect on why things never seem to change. Their conversation begins with a look at the Haitian migrants’ situation at Del Rio, Texas last September. Reflecting on the harsh US response, which led to the deportation of thousands, Emmanuel and Jonathan look at the incident within the context of Christmas. The Haitian migrant story is the Christmas story, which desperately seeks a resolution. As a society, we lack the imagination to see this story in any other way.

We lack imagination as a people, consequently, we continue propagating the same old reasons as to why we must continue to deny migrants and refugees. We can't see the story in any other way. Imagination fuels our ability to show love and compassion to the other. And without imagination, we're unable to create a better world. Christmas is a time of imagination, of considering and accepting how the impossible happened in our world – God becoming a human being. In the same way, Christmas is a time for imagining something different and accepting what we think is impossible. Christmas is a time for imagination, love, and hope. It's a time for extending our imagination to the migrants and refugees of our world.

We hope you enjoy this conversation! It’s presented here in its entirety, with only minimal editing.

On this episode it was my pleasure to welcome David Wetton to the podcast! David is the founder and CEO of Spirit in Work Limited, located in Birmingham, England. David mentors and supports business executives by empowering them to access their own inherent inner wisdom, guiding them through a contemplative and transformational journey. David helps others develop purpose led high performing leadership teams using 1 on 1 coaching and tailored leadership programs. David is also the host of the Conscious Leadership Now Podcast, a podcast that interviews some of the world’s leaders in the field of Conscious Leadership, both in practice and in thought. David holds degrees from Durham University Business School, Warwick Business School, and Bristol University. David is an ordained UK interfaith minister and spiritual counsellor.

David and I had a wonderful conversation. Together we explored his story and experience, particularly his engagement with Celtic spirituality. Using his experiences, David offered some helpful ways to picture liminality, describing it as an “invitation” and “adventure.” David also shared the importance of people and guides along the journey, including the helpful “breadcrumbs” we find along the way. We engaged in an extensive conversation about the changing nature of the workplace and the importance of spirituality and “conscious leadership.” David was a wonderful guest, full of stories and helpful analogies. He also suggested many wonderful resources for understanding liminality, spirituality, and the workplace. I’ve listed the authors and books he mentioned below. I absolutely loved talking with David, and I’m sure it’s a conversation you will love too!

Learn More:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/dwetton/

https://pod.co/conscious-leadership-now

https://www.facebook.com/SpiritInWork

Books and resources quoted from or mentioned during the conversation:

A Desert in the Ocean: The Spiritual Journey According to St. Brendan the Navigator by David Adam

Joseph Campbell’s “Hero’s Journey”

Edgewalkers: People and Organizations That Take Risks, Build Bridges, and Break New Ground by Judi Neal

The Great Growing Up: Being Responsible for Humanity's Future by John Renesch

The Soul of a Leader: Finding Your Path to Success and Fulfillment by Margaret Benefiel

King, Warrior, Magician, Lover: Rediscovering the Archetypes of the Mature Masculine by Robert Moore and Douglas Gillette

Spiritual Leadership in Action: The CEL Story Achieving Extraordinary Results Through Ordinary People by Louis W. W. Fry

Emmanuel Buteau returns for a new “Conversations” episode of the Liminal Theology Podcast! Emmanuel and Jonathan Best explore contemporary issues and concerns through practical theology and liminality.

In this deeply personal and reflective episode, Emmanuel and Jonathan tackle the question of faith. Together they explore faith through experience rather than theology or doctrine. Wishing to move away from the “things'' of faith, they instead look at faith as a continual encounter with the “more.” They see faith as that which opens and provokes us to ask questions and explore doubts. Faith, being distinct from belief, grasps and carries us through both good and bad times. Faith is bigger than our religious practices and prayers, it also includes our struggles, disappointment, and doubts.

This conversation was fundamentally important to both of them and helped to clarify many things they’ve been exploring. It’s also the longest episode to date! Neither of them really wanted the conversation to end, as they were enjoying it way too much to stop! It’s presented here in its entirety, with only minimal editing.

In this episode I had the pleasure of talking with the Rev. Dr. Eileen Campbell-Reed. Eileen is Visiting Associate Professor of Pastoral Theology and Care at Union Theological Seminary, in New York City. She also teaches for the Women's Leadership Initiative MDiv program for Central Seminary in Nashville, Tennessee. Eileen is co-director of the Learning Pastoral Imagination Project, a study of ministry following 50 pastors and ministers since 2009. She is also founder and host of Three Minute Ministry Mentor, a weekly video, blog, and podcast providing resources that inform and inspire the practice of ministry.

Her brand-new book, Pastoral Imagination: Bringing the Practice of Ministry to Life, published by Fortress Press, explores how ministry is cultivated across time, through embodiment and relationships, and in encounters with the holy. The book shares 50 big ministry topics, stories to unpack each topic, supportive resources, and questions for reflection. She is also the author of Anatomy of a Schism (2016), and the State of Clergywomen in the U.S. (2018).

Eileen and I discuss her new book and how it came to be. Eileen describes how she got involved in the project and the qualitative research that went into exploring the practice of ministry as described by pastors, chaplains, and activists. Together we discuss the state of ministry today, how it's evolving, and the many unknown challenges that today's ministers face. Eileen's thoughtful insights and deep knowledge of ministry made this an insightful conversation, one that's sure to be thought provoking as we consider the changing face of ministry. This was a learning experience for me and I'm sure it will be for you too!

Learn More:

https://eileencampbellreed.org/

https://eileencampbellreed.org/welcome-to-three-minute-ministry-mentor/

https://www.fortresspress.com/store/product/9781506470061/Pastoral-Imagination

Emmanuel Buteau joins me for a new “Conversations” episode of the Liminal Theology Podcast. Emmanuel and Jonathan Best explore contemporary issues and concerns through practical theology and liminality.

In this episode, Emmanuel and Jonathan explore the significance of Easter, particularly in its meaning as a symbol. They place Easter within the context of suffering, asking what the resurrection means in times of suffering and death. Together they ask questions of Easter and explore how global and individual suffering stresses the symbol of Easter. The conversation eventually shifts to the cross, exploring its capacity to hold suffering and the challenge it issues when we encounter it. Emmanuel and Jonathan search together for meaning and clarity, finally reaching a point of understanding about religious symbols and their enduring importance. We enjoyed this conversation and hope you will too! It’s presented here in its entirety, with only minimal editing.

On this episode, I had the amazing opportunity to speak with Phil Allen, Jr. Phil is a Ph.D. candidate in Christian Ethics at Fuller Theological Seminary. He earned a bachelor’s degree in theological studies, with an emphasis in Christian ministries from The King’s University and a Master of Arts in theology from Fuller Theological Seminary, studying Christian ethics. His research involves race theory, theology, ethics, culture, and the theology and ethics of Martin Luther King, Jr. Phil is the founder of the Racial Solidarity Project based in Los Angeles, CA. He is also a pastor, and the founder of Own Your Faith Ministries located in Santa Clarita, CA. Phil has been a speaker/preacher across the U.S. and abroad.

Phil is a poet and a documentary film producer. His short film Open Wounds premiered in Los Angeles in January 2020. Phil's passion is for racial justice and healing trauma from racial tragedies and existing structures that perpetuate racial inequities. His book, Open Wounds: A Story of Racial Tragedy, Trauma, and Redemption, published by Fortress Press, is currently out now. The film and book recounts the murder of Phil’s grandfather, Nathaniel Allen. His grandfather was murdered on the Sampit River by his white employer, who lured him into the meeting under the false promise of reconciliation. Allen's death was recorded as an accidental drowning, a deliberate cover-up of the bullet hole seen by more than one witness.

During this important conversation we talked about Open Wounds, the process of making it and the important message it carries about race and trauma. Phil’s description of his family’s suffering and the “discipleship of trauma” his and other black families have had to endure is harrowing and powerful. It’s a honest and frank conversation about the problem of empty reconciliation and the necessity for solidarity. I was very much moved by Phil’s story and his perspective, and I hope you will be too.

Learn more: https://www.philallenjr.com/

It was my pleasure to talk with Dr. Lisa R. Withrow in this episode. Lisa is an International Coaching Federation-certified leadership coach, an accredited team coach, and consultant with expertise in conflict management, leadership formation and development. She has a Ph.D. in leadership studies and certificates in Executive Leadership, Change Leadership, and High-Performance Leadership, all from Cornell University. In addition, Lisa has a doctorate from the University of Glasgow, Scotland, a Master of Divinity degree from Duke Divinity School, and bachelor's degree from Bucknell University. Previously she served as the Academic Dean at Methodist Theological School in Ohio.

Lisa is an independent scholar with twenty years of teaching and administrative leadership in the academy. She is the founder and principal of Clear Transition Strategies, author of six books, and a contributor to leadership journals. Her latest books are Leadership in Unknown Waters: Liminality as Threshold into the Future, published by Lutterworth Press in 2020, and co-author of Crossing Thresholds: A Practical Theology of Liminality, 2021.

Lisa shared how an experience of transition and "thin places" while living in Scotland led her to an interest in liminality. Lisa described liminality, its characteristics, and how the liminal journey affects us. Together we explored the importance of growth and curiosity, and the diversity of the liminal experience, and how leaders can help others find their way through liminality. Finally, we talked about Lisa's new publications and the recently formed Guild for Engaged Liminality. Lisa was a great guest, and her rich knowledge is evident throughout the episode. I learned a great deal from Lisa. This is an episode you don't want to miss!

Learn more: https://www.linkedin.com/in/withrowcoach/

New Book: https://www.lutterworth.com/title-info.php/title/leadership-in-unknown-water

A reading of an original essay by Jonathan Best