In this episode, Nate and Van  sit down with Alex Kocman to discuss his theological framework and his new book, Ordered to Love. The conversation explores the tension between "localism"—focusing on one's immediate family and community—and the global missionary mandate. 

Kocman argues against treating the church like a digital media company, suggesting instead that the local church is a primary countermeasure to the isolation of the digital age. The trio engages in a candid debate over missionary methodologies, comparing a "proclamational" model (prioritizing the preaching of the Gospel) with more "holistic" or humanitarian approaches. 

The discussion concludes with a moving personal story from Van about a real-life "helper" moment, prompting a reflection on how both natural support and spiritual truth work together to provide meaning to those in despair

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We envision a world where design and religion work together to spread love, empathy, and charity faster than divisiveness, selfishness, and hate. To achieve this, we aim to bring the stories of those driving this change—both big and small—into the spotlight, allowing ideas for positive transformation to spread quickly and reach those who need them most.

Nate is the Head Pastor at Red Clay Creek Presbyterian Church https://rccpc.org/

Van is a Service Designer and Illustrator, and his work can be found at https://www.vansheacreative.com/