Renowned monk Thich Nhat Hanh has famously written, "No mud, no lotus" – the idea that suffering is inherent in each of our lives, and that we can transform that suffering into something helpful and even hopeful. On today's podcast, we discuss the links between suffering and healing, light and darkness, and love and hate with our dear friend Venu Gupta of Mother Jones. It's one of our deepest conversations yet – an hour that left all of us awakened, energized, and yes, transformed.