Highlights from the conversation:

Sometimes, I think people forget that what happens to us in the workplace really has far-reaching consequences

I don't believe in safe spaces. I believe in brave spaces where people can be brave and say what it is that they've been through.

[On the Constitutional Court] I worked in an environment where there was a concerted effort to live up to South Africa's highest ideals. It wasn't perfect, but just the striving of it made me have the highest standards.

Arriving to the office and seeing the culture where the judges know everyone by name, you know, not just the law clerks, but the cleaning ladies, the security guards, and all the support staff. You know, a culture where the judges themselves refer to each other as brother and sister, which is very much an African culture

The court has the constitution, this document or this clearly articulated purpose, a dent that they're trying to make in the world, that they have to go after. And I think by having that so clear, everybody who joins be it a clerk, or a cleaner, or a judge has something that they know that this institution, or this company, or this organisation is trying to achieve.

Another ingredient to belonging and inclusion is an institution that justifies its decisions.

A lot of people think of inclusion as 'I want to be given a seat at the table'. Not necessarily — what I want is for us is to throw out the table and actually, you know, sit in a circle and recreate the thing from scratch.

Transparency is key for a purpose-driven organisation. Show us how you make your decisions, tell us why you've made a certain decision. Show us who's on your board, in your management, in your structures and all of that stuff.

I read a beautiful piece last night, which said that it's not a principle until you've paid for it. And I love that thinking, that it's not going to be the smoothest, easiest, cheapest, or fastest route to stick to this, but the long term gain and the long term benefits will far outweigh the short-termism of not doing it

In my research, I've learned that people don't leave because of money. Most of the time they leave because they just find the culture unbearable, they feel like they don't belong.

Reimagine how you can receive these people into your companies in a way that enriches you, and in a way that brings out the best in them, and in a way that reimagines what your company could be, because you're missing out on fresh ideas, on innovative ideas.

More about Lwando 

Lwando Xaso is a constitutional lawyer, writer, and historian. She has discovered how change happens by studying South African history, especially the history of the Constitutional Court.

Her career highlights include clerking for Justice Edwin Cameron at the Constitutional Court and being appointed as a senior researcher for former Chief Justice Ngcobo.

Lwando is the founder and owner of Including Society, a company dedicated to helping create authentically inclusive and diverse private spaces. She is also part of the team developing a museum dedicated to telling the story of the South African Constitution, which will be located at Constitution at Hill.

She is a trustee of the Constitutional Court and is currently writing her first book, "Made in South Africa — a Black Woman's Stories of Rage, Resistance and Progress".

Find Lwando here:

LinkedIn

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Show Notes

People:

Ava DuVernay 

Maxine Jaffit

Judge Edwin Cameron

Donald Dinnie

Dikgang Moseneke

Sisi Khampepe

Institutions and Organisations:

Norton Rose Fulbright (formerlyDeneys Reitz)
GIBS

The Constitutional Court

UCT

Supreme Court of Appeal

DSO (Scorpions)

Miscellaneous:

13th

Glenister Case

The Constitution (of the Republic of South Africa)

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