Niccolò Machiavelli is best known for arguing that people in power should use deception, force, and manipulation if those tactics are necessary to achieve their ends. In an age of unscrupulous politics and ruthless business practice, shouldn’t we be encouraging a move away from Machiavellian thinking? Then again, are we even sure that those “Machiavellian” views were really Machiavelli’s? If not, what did he really think, and what might we learn from him? John and Ken plot and scheme with Maurizio Viroli from Princeton University, author of Redeeming the Prince: The Meaning of Machiavelli’s Masterpiece.