Make Your Own Key Podcast

Jessie Vukobratovich ran a Gilbert, Arizona gym with her husband for 12 years before getting her real estate license, and for her first few years she barely did anything with it. Then she committed to posting content every single day for nine months. Now strangers stop her in Costco by name, and she wakes up to new listing leads every week without chasing anyone. In this conversation with Seth, Jessie (Real Brokerage, Gilbert AZ) breaks down how she built a local-authority brand on YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, the systems that let her content convert while she sleeps, why she runs a tiny team on purpose, the four brokerages it took to find Real, and what Arizona’s shift to a balanced market means for agents who’ve never worked one.

What You’ll Learn

How Jessie turned YouTube into a digital sphere that converts total strangers: clients who’ve already “interviewed” her by binge-watching her channel before they ever call. The nine-month consistency window it took before her content started producing leads. Why she refers out every lead outside her core area instead of building a big team. What a balanced market actually requires from agents who only learned the business in a frenzy.

Episode Breakdown

00:00 — Costco Recognition Story

03:03 — From Gym To Real Estate

03:56 — Marketing Pivot Breakthrough

06:23 — Turning Strangers Into Fans

08:27 — Switching From eXp To Real

12:17 — Small Team Referral Model

15:42 — Systems As A Superpower

16:55 — Arizona Market Shift

20:37 — Rates, Demand, And Timing

24:37 — Brokerage Consolidation Talk

29:18 — Advice For New Agents

33:48 — Shadowing Before Licensing

Why This Episode Matters

Most agents treat social media like a lottery ticket. Jessie treated it like a job, every day for nine months, before it paid off. Whether you’re stuck waiting on referrals, posting content that isn’t converting yet, or wondering if you need a big team to scale, Jessie’s model (tiny team, tight systems, hyper-local authority, refer out everything else) is one of the cleanest blueprints you’ll hear for building a business that generates leads while you sleep.

Resources Mentioned

Real Brokerage — Jessie’s home for the past two years

eXp Realty, HomeSmart, Revelation Real Estate — Jessie’s three previous brokerages

Dustin Brohm & Kristen Cantrell — the Real agents who introduced Jessie to Real

Real’s marketing team structure — the alternative team model Jessie uses to teach other agents

Real acquiring RE/MAX — and Dave & Gail Liniger’s agent-first legacy

Rise — Real’s annual conference (Las Vegas)

👇 Are you an agent who wants to actually talk shop?

Seth takes a few open conversations a month with agents thinking about their next move — whether that’s joining a team, switching brokerages, exploring Real Broker, or stress-testing the math on their current setup. No pitch. No pressure. Just an honest 30 minutes, agent to agent.

📅 Book a chat: https://calendly.com/sethlejeune/makeyourownkey

📲 Follow Make Your Own Key

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Instagram: @‌makeyourownkey

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Your key. Your move.

Seth sits down with Colleen Fada (Keller Williams Realty Group, Brett Fight Sales Team) and Jenn (Real Brokerage, The SLG Team) for the show's first two-guest episode — both five years into their careers, both team members instead of team leaders, and both ready to talk about what every agent in their first five years actually experiences. In this conversation, Seth, Colleen, and Jenn dig into the biggest gap between what they thought real estate would be and what the job actually is, the "earn-your-commission-but-never-get-paid" warning that stuck, the Seth-gets-dressed-down-on-the-phone story that made him go pull every real estate document on a Saturday, why kindness is a sales strategy (not just a personality trait), and the appraisal rant Jenn and Seth both can't stop having.

What You'll Learn

What two team members with five years each actually think about the industry — a perspective the show rarely features. The one skill every veteran agent still does better than the newer ones (and the one skill where the opposite is true). Why "he who yells the loudest has the most to lose" is Seth's go-to negotiation philosophy. The appraisal problem Jenn and Seth both think is quietly inflating home prices across the market.

Episode Breakdown (timestamps estimated — the uploaded transcript didn't include time codes, so these are my best read of the conversation flow)

• 0:45 — Intro
• 2:04 — Meet Colleen Fada and Jenn — the show's first two-guest episode
• 3:50 — Introducing Colleen (Keller Williams, Brett Fight Sales Team) and Jenn (Real, The SLG Team)
• 6:30 — Why Colleen got into real estate — the "life said now" moment
• 8:15 — Why Jenn got into real estate — hitting her "licensed by 30" goal with 8 days to spare
• 11:00 — The biggest gap between what you thought real estate would be and the actual job
• 13:30 — "You can earn your commission and never get paid" — the warning that stuck
• 16:00 — The networking skill nobody warns new agents about
• 18:00 — The 5-year milestone: when repeat business and referrals finally compound
• 20:00 — What younger agents understand better than veteran agents
• 24:00 — What veteran agents still do better — closing the deal in the listing appointment
• 27:00 — Seth's deal from his first year: when another agent "installed his foot in his ass"
• 32:00 — The Alex Coates kindness story — and the 17-offer house three years later
• 36:00 — "He who yells the loudest has the most to lose" — Chris Benedict's rule
• 40:00 — Why today's market requires a lot more hand-holding and brainstorming
• 44:00 — The appraisal rant: "the last bastion of defense that hasn't worked"
• 51:00 — Should the appraised price be required in the MLS?
• 55:00 — Lightning round
• 61:00 — Wrap-up

Why This Episode Matters

Most agent interviews are with top team leaders or broker-owners. This episode is deliberately different. Colleen and Jenn are five years in, grinding through transactions, handling emotional clients, and figuring out who their ideal client is. Their perspective — the "second-row" of real estate — rarely gets a mic. If you're one to three years in, this is the conversation your mentor should hand you. If you're a team leader, it's the conversation that reminds you what the agents under you are actually dealing with.

Resources Mentioned

• Real Brokerage — Jenn's home on The SLG Team
• Keller Williams Realty Group (Collegeville) — Colleen's home on the Berrett/Feight Sales Team
• Steve Porter at Polley Associates — the pre-license teacher whose "earn-your-commission-but-never-get-paid" warning stuck with Colleen
• Chris Benedict — source of the "he who yells the loudest has the most to lose" line
• Sun Tzu, The Art of War — referenced as a negotiation framework
• Berkshire Hathaway (Collegeville) — Seth's early-career brokerage
• Alex Coates — real estate agent whose kindness to Seth years ago paid off later with a 17-offer house
• Gary — Colleen's appraiser friend and major education source
• The NAR settlement ($1.3B total, $400M to the plaintiffs' attorneys)

👇 Are you an agent who wants to actually talk shop?

Seth takes a few open conversations a month with agents thinking about their next move — whether that's joining a team, switching brokerages, exploring Real Broker, or stress-testing the math on their current setup. No pitch. No pressure. Just an honest 30 minutes, agent to agent.

📅 Book a chat: Make Your Own Key Podcast – Guest Interview - Seth Lejeune

📲 Follow Make Your Own Key

YouTube: Hit subscribe and turn on notifications

Instagram: @‌makeyourownkey

Spotify / Apple Podcasts: Search "Make Your Own Key"

Your key. Your move.

Zach Neild got his real estate license in Arizona at 20, joined a 30-agent Keller Williams team, then spent the next five years working his way through four brokerages before finally landing at Real. Now back in Pennsylvania after three years out west, he's running an open-house-heavy, sphere-driven business while building a YouTube channel on the side. In this conversation with Seth, Zach (Real Brokerage, Montgomery County PA) breaks down the KW → Realty Executives → eXp → Real journey, the "LeBron's not buying a house with you" hot take on performative agent social media, why he thinks brick-and-mortar brokerages are done, and what he'd actually do if he had to start over tomorrow in a brand-new city.

What You'll Learn

The 4-5% conversion math on open houses (and why Zach is still doing 5-6 a week anyway). Why "lunch and learn" training doesn't stick for new agents — and what does. How to spot performative agent social media (and why LeBron is definitely not buying a house from you). Where a young, high-perspective agent thinks the American brokerage is heading in the next 10 years.

Episode Breakdown

• 1:09 — Intro
• 1:53 — Meet Zach Neild
• 2:26 — Growing up in Montgomery County → moving to Arizona for his girlfriend's college
• 3:20 — Getting licensed at 20 and joining a 30-agent KW team in Arizona
• 4:26 — Going solo, then partnering with Rich to run buy-side at eXp
• 6:24 — 4 brokerages in 5 years: KW → Realty Executives → eXp → Real
• 6:40 — Moving back to Pennsylvania in May 2025 after three years out west
• 8:20 — 135 open-house contacts in 12 months — the conversion math
• 9:53 — Why open houses are the plan now, and YouTube is the plan next
• 11:43 — Zach's hot take: "LeBron's not buying a house with you"
• 14:31 — When bad AI content becomes a real estate agent's tell
• 16:15 — Advice for new agents: get the license first, find a real mentor second
• 22:40 — Where the American brokerage is headed in the next 10 years
• 25:39 — What Seth thinks will happen with Compass + Anywhere
• 27:31 — Why private exclusives will collide with the Fair Housing Act
• 30:19 — Why most brokerages and team models don't actually make money
• 33:39 — If Zach started over in a brand-new city tomorrow, here's what he'd do
• 35:29 — The 60-year-old agent falling down an embankment — Seth's clarifying moment
• 37:23 — The two inflection-point decisions that changed Zach's career
• 42:35 — Wrap-up

Why This Episode Matters

Zach is the second brand-new-to-real-estate perspective the show has featured. But unlike Wyatt, he has five years of intense reps across four brokerages before hitting 25. That combination — young enough to see the industry with fresh eyes, experienced enough to have opinions with receipts — makes this an unusually honest conversation about what agents in the first five years of their career actually need.

Resources Mentioned

• Real Brokerage — Zach's current home
• eXp Realty — Zach's third brokerage (a year and a half)
• Realty Executives — Zach's second brokerage (about a year)
• Keller Williams / Stratton Group — Zach's first brokerage (Arizona, ~30 agents doing $100M+)
• Rich — Zach's business partner at eXp, YouTube-driven agent
• Passive Prospecting / Channel Junkie — YouTube-for-real-estate frameworks referenced
• Ken Hozek — YouTube real estate creator mentioned as a Real success story
• Ryan Serhant — quoted on his "only brokerage left in 10 years" prediction
• Will Holder's J curve — referenced in the brokerage-model math discussion
• Compass acquiring Anywhere — Century 21, Coldwell Banker, Berkshire Hathaway, Sotheby's

👇 Are you an agent who wants to actually talk shop?

Seth takes a few open conversations a month with agents thinking about their next move — whether that's joining a team, switching brokerages, exploring Real Broker, or stress-testing the math on their current setup. No pitch. No pressure. Just an honest 30 minutes, agent to agent.

📅 Book a chat: https://calendly.com/sethlejeune/makeyourownkey

📲 Follow Make Your Own Key

YouTube: Hit subscribe and turn on notifications

Instagram: @‌makeyourownkey

Spotify / Apple Podcasts: Search "Make Your Own Key"

Your key. Your move.

Wyatt spent 15 years in banking — mortgages, branch management, and running credit union sales teams across Pennsylvania — before finally trading it in for the real estate license he'd wanted for years. He started at Berkshire Hathaway. Six months later, he was at Real. In this conversation with Seth, Wyatt (Real Brokerage, Central PA) breaks down the "1982-style" training that pushed him to teach himself, the commission math that finally opened his eyes, the cold email to a Real agent that changed his mind, and why — as a brand-new agent — he was already convinced Real is where the industry is going.

What You'll Learn

Why a brand-new agent walked into Berkshire Hathaway and walked out to Real within six months. What "training" actually looks like at a legacy brokerage vs. how a self-taught agent builds their book in 2026. Why Real's core values don't lead with tech (they lead with "work hard, be kind") and what that signals about the culture. The specific commission math that broke it open for Wyatt — broker cut, brokerage franchise fee, and Zillow's 30%.

Episode Breakdown

• 1:10 — Intro
• 1:53 — Meet Wyatt
• 2:29 — 15 years in banking → real estate: the pivot
• 3:25 — The "people helping people" credit union philosophy that carried over
• 5:52 — Starting at Berkshire Hathaway — and why the family-friend broker made it the easy first choice
• 6:48 — What "training" actually looked like — and why it wasn't going to work
• 7:11 — "The training was: this is what a real estate agent in 1982 did"
• 7:37 — Teaching himself: Tom Ferry, YouTube, killing the TV
• 8:35 — The Facebook ad that led him to Sharan Sharma and Real
• 9:53 — The commission math that broke it open: broker + Berkshire cut + Zillow's 30%
• 10:35 — Cold-emailing random Real agents online — and the one who answered
• 11:44 — Why Real's core values don't lead with tech (they lead with "work hard, be kind")
• 15:31 — When Real went from scrappy startup to a legitimate destination
• 17:04 — A week after Wyatt moved, his buddy emailed: "I'm following you"
• 17:34 — "It doesn't feel like you're being sold a business"
• 20:50 — Why Real has more offices than Compass — even as a "cloud brokerage"
• 24:00 — No franchise boundaries. No turf wars. What actually changes when the model flips.
• 25:00 — The 60% of revenue Real gives back to agents
• 25:35 — Wyatt's advice for any agent considering the move
• 26:09 — Wrap-up

Why This Episode Matters

Most agents interviewed on this show have 10, 15, 20 years in the business. Wyatt has months. That's the point. This is the conversation for anyone at a legacy brokerage right now wondering if the discomfort they feel is a training gap or a signal, and for anyone considering their first brokerage in 2026 asking, "How do I make this decision without regretting it a year from now?" Wyatt made the call fast — and this episode is exactly why.

Resources Mentioned

• Real Brokerage — Wyatt's home after leaving Berkshire Hathaway
• Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices — Wyatt's first brokerage
• Tom Ferry — the coaching brand Wyatt found via self-teaching after realizing his in-house training was thin
• Sharan Sharma — Real Brokerage co-founder whose content Wyatt stumbled upon via a Facebook ad
• Tamir (Real leadership) — mentioned on the webinar announcing Real hit 32,000 agents
• Bree — the Real agent whose one-hour cold-email response changed Wyatt's mind
• Compass acquiring Anywhere — Century 21, Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices, Coldwell Banker, Sotheby's (industry consolidation)
• Real's core values: Work Hard, Be Kind + "We more than me"

👇 Are you an agent who wants to actually talk shop?

Seth takes a few open conversations a month with agents thinking about their next move — whether that's joining a team, switching brokerages, exploring Real Broker, or stress-testing the math on their current setup. No pitch. No pressure. Just an honest 30 minutes, agent to agent.

📅 Book a chat: Make Your Own Key Podcast – Guest Interview - Seth Lejeune

📲 Follow Make Your Own Key

YouTube: Hit subscribe and turn on notifications

Instagram: @‌makeyourownkey

Spotify / Apple Podcasts: Search "Make Your Own Key"

Your key. Your move.

Quin Shalaway started his career selling 40-foot party buses in Philadelphia before losing his backup job three weeks before his wedding — and turning to real estate as a last resort. Eight years and one long-running podcast later, he's built a sphere-driven, sarcasm-forward solo business at a Boyertown boutique brokerage and just launched The Shalloe Way Group. In this conversation with Seth, Quin (Legacy Real Estate, Boyertown PA) opens up about the 20% down myth killing home buyers, the desert-crossing metaphor he gives every new agent, why he refuses to build a team ("I'm in it for the red meat"), and the two things about people every agent has to accept to survive in this business.

What You'll Learn

Why sphere-of-influence still beats every paid lead source for consultative agents. Quin's contrarian take on the "you don't need 20% down" messaging that's flooded the industry — and why he thinks it's a disservice to an entire generation of buyers. The group model that lets him step away for family without ever running a "team." The question every agent should ask themselves before scaling: how much money do you actually need to make?

Episode Breakdown

• 1:06 — Intro
• 1:52 — Meet Quin Shalaway
• 2:26 — The Quintessential Real Estate Podcast — 7 years running, started 1 year into his career
• 4:51 — From selling 40-foot party buses in Philadelphia to real estate
• 5:13 — The two-weeks-in job that vanished — three weeks before his wedding
• 6:43 — The conversation with his fiancée that put him in real estate
• 8:33 — The family-friend broker who made him tour 30 houses in 5 days
• 12:30 — Handing $15K to a brokerage in one month — and what that money could actually do
• 16:03 — The 20% down myth that's still killing home buyers
• 17:05 — Quin's hot take: "It's a disservice to tell a generation they don't need to save"
• 23:24 — Advice for new agents: "Look at it like a desert you're trying to cross"
• 28:22 — Why RE/MAX isn't designed for the brand-new agent
• 30:51 — Starting The Shalloe Way Group after 8 years solo
• 35:02 — The question every agent should ask: how much do I actually need to make?
• 37:15 — The 33-year-old making $725K — and why Seth asked him "why?"
• 44:41 — "I'm in real estate for the red meat" — why Quin refuses to build a team
• 49:21 — When his broker pitches hourly compensation for agents
• 1:00:40 — The two things about people you have to accept to survive this business
• 1:02:57 — Wrap-up

Why This Episode Matters

Quin represents an under-covered kind of successful real estate agent — the solo, sphere-based operator who chooses freedom and family over volume. Whether you're just getting into real estate, wondering if you have to build a team to be considered successful, or trying to figure out how to design a business that actually fits your life, Quin's approach is one of the most honest agent philosophies you'll hear this year.

Resources Mentioned

• Legacy Real Estate — Quin's Boyertown, PA boutique brokerage
• The Quintessential Real Estate (QRE) Podcast — Quin's client-facing podcast, 7 years and running
• Moving Sucks Podcast — Seth's consumer-facing show, referenced in the conversation
• RE/MAX Achievers (Collegeville) — Quin's first brokerage
• Zillow, realtor.com, ISAs — lead sources Quin tested and mostly moved away from
• The Shalloe Way Group — Quin's new group at Legacy (one agent partner + admin, brother coming on next)
• Redfin's W-2 agent model — discussed as a cautionary case study

👇 Are you an agent who wants to actually talk shop?

Seth takes a few open conversations a month with agents thinking about their next move — whether that's joining a team, switching brokerages, exploring Real Broker, or stress-testing the math on their current setup. No pitch. No pressure. Just an honest 30 minutes, agent to agent.

📅 Book a chat: Make Your Own Key Podcast – Guest Interview - Seth Lejeune

📲 Follow Make Your Own Key

YouTube: Hit subscribe and turn on notifications

Instagram: @‌makeyourownkey

Spotify / Apple Podcasts: Search "Make Your Own Key"

Your key. Your move.

Anthony Keane got into real estate because a Rita's Water Ice franchise fell through. Twenty-plus years, a full-time bank job, a 70-agent boutique brokerage he helped build, and three brokerage moves later, he's still selling — and he thinks the industry should triple its licensing fees. In this conversation with Seth, Anthony (Real Brokerage, Harleysville PA) breaks down the eXp-to-Real math nobody talks about, what actually killed brick-and-mortar brokerage relevance, why Zillow Flex earns its 40% cut, and what advice he'd give a brand-new agent trying to figure out where to hang their license in 2026.

What You'll Learn

The specific eXp-vs-Real math that drove Anthony's June 2024 move — caps, rev share, and the 2.3x agent-attraction difference nobody's calculated for you. Why 95% of home sales now start online and what that means for how you actually build a business. Anthony's contrarian take on licensing fees — and why raising them would help the consumer, not hurt them. The Pomodoro workday framework that lets him out-produce agents who work twice as long.

Episode Breakdown

• 1:21 — Intro
• 2:04 — Meet Anthony Keane (and the 18-offer deal he and Seth did back in 2019)
• 4:23 — 2004: how a shut-down Rita's Water Ice franchise became a real estate career
• 4:43 — Buying his first flip three months into marriage, doing 85% of the work himself
• 5:08 — The full-time Bank of NY Mellon job that ran alongside all of it
• 5:38 — Coldwell Banker to Entourage: building a 70-agent, 3-office boutique brokerage
• 6:28 — When COVID cost him his VP role at Entourage
• 7:16 — The math that drove the eXp-to-Real move: caps, rev share, and 2.3x agents
• 8:42 — The Pomodoro Technique that runs Anthony's whole workday
• 11:39 — Why Philly Real still has 9 offices even though we're "cloud-based"
• 15:48 — Why eXp's tech felt scattered vs. Real's all-in-one platform
• 18:50 — What actually changed after the NAR lawsuit (spoiler: nothing)
• 19:30 — "20% of agents do 80% of the work" — the part-time agent problem
• 20:37 — Anthony's hot take: triple or quadruple the licensing fees
• 23:45 — Why Zillow Flex's 40% cut is actually justified
• 26:32 — "The consumer is buying you, not the sign on the door"
• 31:37 — Anthony's advice for brand-new agents trying to pick a brokerage in 2026
• 33:19 — Do boutique real estate brokerages still have a role?
• 36:08 — Wrap-up

Why This Episode Matters

Very few agents have owned both sides of the brokerage table. Anthony was VP of Operations at Entourage — a 70-agent boutique brokerage — before he became a top producer inside a cloud-based model. That range shows up in every part of this conversation. Whether you're weighing eXp vs. Real, wondering if a boutique brokerage still makes sense, or trying to figure out how a small-town flipper turns into a 20-year career operator, this one has the receipts.

Resources Mentioned

• Real Brokerage — Anthony's home since June 2024
• eXp Realty — Anthony's brokerage from 2020 until June 2024
• Entourage Elite Real Estate — the 70-agent, 3-office boutique where Anthony was VP of Operations
• Coldwell Banker — Anthony's first brokerage after getting licensed in 2012
• Bank of New York Mellon — where Anthony was Senior Manager running a 120-agent financial services call center
• The Pomodoro Technique — Anthony's workday operating system (four 25-minute hyperfocus blocks per day)
• Regus / Office Evolution — flex office spaces Anthony and Seth use for client meetings
• Zillow Flex — discussed as a fair-cost lead source
• RE/MAX "Bouge" CRM — cited as a case study in brokerage tech failure

👇 Are you an agent who wants to actually talk shop?

Seth takes a few open conversations a month with agents thinking about their next move — whether that's joining a team, switching brokerages, exploring Real Broker, or stress-testing the math on their current setup. No pitch. No pressure. Just an honest 30 minutes, agent to agent.

📅 Book a chat: Make Your Own Key Podcast – Guest Interview - Seth Lejeune

📲 Follow Make Your Own Key

YouTube: Hit subscribe and turn on notifications

Instagram: @‌makeyourownkey

Spotify / Apple Podcasts: Search "Make Your Own Key"

Your key. Your move.

Jonathan Campbell got his real estate license in high school. Twenty years later, he leads Pennsylvania's #1 real estate team — $200M+ in annual volume, 15,000+ career transactions, and one of Real Brokerage's most vocal advocates. But when aspiring team leaders come to him for advice, his answer is almost always the same: don't. In this conversation with Seth, Jonathan (Real Brokerage, Lehigh Valley) breaks down the RREK framework that runs his team, why he tells most agents to stay solo, the Sunday phone call with Sharon that pulled him out of eXp in 48 hours, and where he sees the American brokerage headed in the next five years.

What You'll Learn

How Jonathan built the #1 real estate team in Pennsylvania and hit $200M in annual volume with fewer support staff than most 100-agent shops. The RREK framework — Role, Responsibility, Expectation, Key numbers — that his whole team runs on. Why "most of my conversations with aspiring team leaders is talking them out of it." The tactical mistake that quietly kills team leaders the moment they step out of production.

Episode Breakdown

• 0:45 — Intro
• 1:28 — Meet Jonathan Campbell
• 4:33 — Getting his real estate license in high school (senior-year night classes)
• 4:46 — Flipping his first house at 18, one summer out of high school
• 5:11 — When the 2008 crash hit: losing houses, moving back in with his parents
• 5:55 — Turning short-sale expertise into 80-90 transactions a year
• 6:26 — The transparency lesson: telling clients "I've personally been through this"
• 8:02 — The KW → DLP Realty → eXp → Real journey
• 8:45 — 2017: his son is born, and he steps out of production for the first time
• 10:12 — Don Winter's line: "You'll never grow if that's how you're gonna think"
• 15:33 — The Sunday call with Sharon that changed everything — 48 hours vs. 9 months
• 16:59 — Telling his team about the Real move — and their "thank God" reaction
• 24:36 — The team by the numbers: $200M volume, six listing agents, one TC handling 50-60 deals a month
• 27:05 — The RREK framework: Role, Responsibility, Expectation, Key numbers
• 29:47 — "Most of my conversations with aspiring team leaders is talking them out of it"
• 31:01 — The #1 mistake team leaders make: stopping production too early
• 33:32 — The 5-year outlook for the American brokerage
• 39:21 — When Jonathan's lender said "Real is just cool"
• 42:32 — What he's building next: monthly Bethlehem events + a 10,000-agent goal
• 43:41 — Wrap-up

Why This Episode Matters

Twenty years in this business is rare. Twenty years across a market crash, three brokerage moves, a personal short sale, a sales-to-leadership transition, and building the state's #1 team — that's a masterclass. Whether you're new to real estate, running a small team, or watching the industry compress in real time, Jonathan's perspective on team building, brokerage economics, and where all of this is heading is worth the full listen.

Resources Mentioned

• Real Brokerage — Jonathan's home since March 2024
• eXp Realty — the stopover between DLP and Real
• DLP Realty — Jonathan's second brokerage, focused on new construction in FL, GA, and NC
• Keller Williams — Jonathan's first brokerage (4-5 years, early career)
• The RREK framework — Role, Responsibility, Expectation, Key numbers (his team operating system)
• Don Winter — Jonathan's early mentor
• Timmy Dodge — Jonathan's in-house photographer/videographer
• Monthly Bethlehem events at Hotel Bethlehem — the next one on February 10

👇 Are you an agent who wants to actually talk shop?

Seth takes a few open conversations a month with agents thinking about their next move — whether that's joining a team, switching brokerages, exploring Real Broker, or stress-testing the math on their current setup. No pitch. No pressure. Just an honest 30 minutes, agent to agent.

📅 Book a chat: https://calendly.com/sethlejeune/makeyourownkey

📲 Follow Make Your Own Key

YouTube: Hit subscribe and turn on notifications

Instagram: @‌makeyourownkey

Spotify / Apple Podcasts: Search "Make Your Own Key"

Your key. Your move.

Will Holder moved to Delaware County from Trinidad at 15 with no network, worked banking jobs he hated, read Rich Dad Poor Dad, and quit his W-2 for real estate in 2015 with a wedding six months on the calendar. Nine years and 34 agents later, his team has a 94% retention rate — and he still refuses to sell it. In this conversation with Seth, Will (Real Brokerage, Greater Philadelphia) opens up about the J curve that kills most 4-to-20-agent real estate teams, why most of the "American brokerage" is running the wrong game, and — mid-episode — reacts in real time to breaking news: Real just bought RE/MAX.

What You'll Learn

How Will grew a team to 34 agents with 94% retention while still producing personally. The "J curve" between 4 and 20 agents that quietly kills most real estate teams — and how his team clawed out of it. The two team models that actually work in this business (and why everything in the middle collapses). What "I'm not selling my team" means as a philosophy, and why so many broker-owners regret building to exit.

Episode Breakdown

0:59 — Intro

1:42 — Meet Will Holder — 7 months at Real, entire brokerage moved by January 2026

2:48 — From Trinidad to Delaware County: the immigrant origin story

4:40 — Going full-time in real estate in 2015 with a wedding six months away

5:27 — The rough first six months (and the wife who vetoed the second job)

6:40 — Year one: 36 sales at a $147K average price point

8:30 — Hiring the first assistant and jumping from 45 to 70 sales

9:43 — When a past client asked to join a team he didn't have yet

10:56 — The brutal math: 70% of agents didn't sell a home last year

11:36 — "You'll make better money at Walmart than in real estate under $3M"

13:07 — 34 agents, 13 backend staff, still in production

13:28 — Leaving RE/MAX: the multi-state licensing trap that made the model impossible

15:42 — Where the American brokerage is headed: industry compression + AI disruption

19:24 — The anti-off-market rant: why private listings quietly hurt sellers

28:33 — The two real estate team models — and why the middle dies

30:46 — The J curve: why teams between 4 and 20 agents lose money

32:34 — The $2.5M-to-$11M-in-April tire-slashing coaching story

39:37 — "I'm not selling my team" — the anti-exit philosophy

44:00 — Breaking news mid-episode: Real Broker acquiring RE/MAX

46:34 — Wrap-up (with a Part 2 promise)

Why This Episode Matters

Whether you're a solo agent thinking about scale, a team leader stuck between 4 and 20 agents wondering why the math keeps not working, or a broker-owner starting to feel the weight of your own model — Will's story is one of the most honest team-building conversations you'll hear this year. Two team leaders. 94% retention on one side, a former RE/MAX franchise on the other. And a shared thesis about where every agent, team, and brokerage is heading.

Resources Mentioned

Real Brokerage — Will's home since August 2025 (team) / January 2026 (brokerage)

Real acquiring RE/MAX — announced live during the recording

Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki — the book that first cracked Will's W-2 mindset at 25

The Millionaire Real Estate Agent (MREA) by Gary Keller — discussed as the team-building playbook that helped some agents and hurt others

Arnold Schwarzenegger's autobiography — Will references how Arnold sought out a coach as a teenager in 1960s Austria

The J curve — the business framework Will uses to describe team-building unprofitability between 4 and 20 agents

NAR settlement (2024) — discussed re: independent broker-owner liability

👇 Are you an agent who wants to actually talk shop?

Seth takes a few open conversations a month with agents thinking about their next move — whether that's joining a team, switching brokerages, exploring Real Broker, or stress-testing the math on their current setup. No pitch. No pressure. Just an honest 30 minutes, agent to agent.

📅 Book a chat: Make Your Own Key Podcast – Guest Interview - Seth Lejeune

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Your key. Your move.

Becky Bostic spent 13 years at Keller Williams before she made the jump to Real — and she made it while six months pregnant, with a team to run and a newborn three weeks out. Her only regret? Not moving sooner. In this conversation, Becky (Real Brokerage, Doylestown PA) takes Seth through the Aldi district manager origin story, the 24-home Rookie of the Year run she pulled off in a brand-new market through nothing but open houses, the math that finally made her leave KW after a decade of loyalty, and the random agent who named her as his sponsor at Real without ever having met her. If you're a real estate agent who's been at the same brokerage too long because the loyalty feels safer than the math — this one's for you.

What You'll Learn

How Becky built a $42M, $700K GCI team and what changed when she stopped renting space from a brand and started owning her business. Why "no one hires a logo" and what that means for your value proposition. The KW profit share vs Real revenue share math over a decade (you'll want to be sitting down). What broker support actually looks like when a deal goes sideways — and what it looks like when you have to email someone and wait three business days.

Episode Breakdown

1:01 — Intro

1:44 — Meet Becky Bostic

2:55 — From Aldi district manager at 23 to "I hated my W-2 life"

4:47 — Getting licensed in Ohio in 2012 with no network and no map

5:10 — Rookie of the Year on 24 homes — all built through open houses

7:56 — Building the team: $42M in volume, $700K personal GCI

8:50 — The Real introduction (while six months pregnant) and the 13-year KW reckoning

11:30 — "You're not growing if you're not uncomfortable"

12:34 — How Real changed her view of revenue: stock, revenue share, attraction

13:00 — The random agent who named her as his sponsor — without ever meeting her

17:30 — "Too good to be true" — even her skeptical team came around

19:00 — Onboarding at Real in one hour vs days at KW

20:48 — The 3-acre vs 5.1-acre disaster and what real broker support looks like

24:20 — Who belongs at Real (and who absolutely doesn't)

28:46 — The future of the American brokerage: the KW consolidation prediction

33:30 — KW profit share vs Real revenue share: a decade of math

36:44 — Compass + Anywhere: the harbinger of what's coming

40:36 — "No one hires a logo"

41:50 — Why you shouldn't stay at any brokerage more than 9 years

43:35 — Same-day commission payouts vs the KW office check pickup

46:39 — Wrap-up

Why This Episode Matters

Whether you've been at the same brokerage for two years or fifteen, this conversation forces a question most agents avoid: is your current brokerage the best place for your license — or just the most familiar? Becky and Seth talk through the cost of staying loyal to a brand instead of staying loyal to your business, the realities of switching with a team in tow, and what actually changes when you stop paying for offices nobody uses.

Resources Mentioned

Real Brokerage — Becky's home for four months and counting

Real Luxury Division — the credentialing program that triggered her first unsolicited sponsor request

Lofty CRM — included at a Real-discounted rate

Real Mail — direct-mail postcards, same backend Command used

Follow Up Boss — Becky's longtime CRM of choice

Resend — Real's transaction + compliance platform

Compass + Anywhere Real Estate acquisition — discussed as a market signal

Rise — Real's annual conference

👇 Are you an agent who wants to actually talk shop?

Seth takes a few open conversations a month with agents thinking about their next move — whether that's joining a team, switching brokerages, exploring Real Broker, or stress-testing the math on their current setup. No pitch. No pressure. Just an honest 30 minutes, agent to agent.

📅 Book a chat: Make Your Own Key Podcast – Guest Interview - Seth Lejeune

📲 Follow Make Your Own Key

YouTube: Hit subscribe and turn on notifications

Instagram: @‌makeyourownkey

Spotify / Apple Podcasts: Search "Make Your Own Key"

Your key. Your move.

Tim Garrity has done it all — started his career at his dad's mortgage office at 23, climbed to production manager at Pulte Homes, lost it in 2009, finished his MBA, got licensed, built a $12M solo book, then co-founded an independent brokerage that grew to 47 agents and nearly $100M in volume in under a decade. Then he sunset it on purpose. In this conversation with Seth, Tim (Real Brokerage, Philadelphia) opens the books on what running an independent brokerage actually costs, why he tells most agents not to start one, the real endgame behind the Compass + Anywhere acquisition, and the mall analogy that explains exactly where the American brokerage industry is headed.

What You'll Learn

What it actually takes to run a 47-agent independent brokerage — and why even doing it well isn't worth it anymore. Why "the brokerage is now a support system, not an overarching company" — and how the power dynamic between agents and brokerages permanently flipped. What Tim tells anyone considering starting their own shop today (it's almost always "don't"). Where 5-7 mega-brands will land in the next 10 years, and why your specific logo doesn't matter.

Episode Breakdown

1:05 — Intro

1:47 — Meet Tim Garrity

2:32 — From his dad's mortgage office at 23 to losing his Pulte job in 2009

3:39 — Getting licensed + Brown McKinney: learning the investor game, not scripts

4:56 — Starting Copper Hill Real Estate at the end of 2014 — three founders, one row home

5:25 — Scaling to 47 agents and $100M volume by 2022

6:22 — When the partnership unwound: choosing to sunset the brand rather than rebuild

6:59 — Stumbling onto Real at 46: "an entrepreneur skeleton" for a seasoned operator

9:31 — From broker owner to salesperson: the mindset shift nobody talks about

13:35 — "The brokerage is now a support system, not an overarching company"

19:24 — The power flip: "Are you the right brokerage for me?"

23:51 — What Tim tells anyone thinking about starting their own brokerage today

25:50 — The broker owner who white-labeled under Real and finally felt light

26:37 — How the NAR settlement made independent brokers' lives even harder

28:19 — The hidden killer of independent brokerages: the back office

30:49 — The future of the American brokerage: 5-7 mega-brands in 10 years

31:36 — "All those Compass and Anywhere brands are gone" — what's actually happening

33:48 — Dave Liniger and the RE/MAX cap-model blackballing of the '80s

35:29 — The mall analogy: how brokerage consolidation will actually play out

36:54 — Wrap-up

Why This Episode Matters

Few agents have actually been on every side of this business — mortgage origination, broker of record at a 47-agent independent, and back to representing clients directly. Tim has. This is the conversation for any agent who's ever romanticized starting their own brokerage, any team lead questioning whether their next move actually frees them up or just hands them new problems, and any operator trying to understand which brokerage brands will still be standing in five years.

Resources Mentioned

- Real Brokerage — Tim's home after sunsetting Copper Hill

- Copper Hill Real Estate — the independent Tim co-founded in 2014, sunset in 2023

- Brown McKinney — the small Brewerytown independent where Tim cut his teeth (shout-out to Rudy Brown)

- Pulte Homes — where Tim was production manager for the mortgage department for six years

- LaSalle University MBA — finished while building his first year in real estate

- Rise — Real's annual conference; Tim's first time attending in 2026

- RE/MAX R4 — the 2020 conference Tim attended in Las Vegas right before the COVID shutdown

- Compass + Anywhere Real Estate acquisition — discussed as the harbinger of consolidation

- Tim's podcast with Mooney — 2.5+ years running, built as a personal-brand exercise

👇 Are you an agent who wants to actually talk shop?

Seth takes a few open conversations a month with agents thinking about their next move — whether that's joining a team, switching brokerages, exploring Real Broker, or stress-testing the math on their current setup. No pitch. No pressure. Just an honest 30 minutes, agent to agent.

📅 Book a chat: Make Your Own Key Podcast – Guest Interview - Seth Lejeune

📲 Follow Make Your Own Key

YouTube: Hit subscribe and turn on notifications

Instagram: @‌makeyourownkey

Spotify / Apple Podcasts: Search "Make Your Own Key"

Your key. Your move.