Josh talks with Andrew Giles, a photographer, educator, and father of three. They talk about their time working at Appel Farm Arts Camp together, the importance of empathy, and Andrew's tough journey getting sober and going through a divorce while also dealing with COVID. The two then discuss rap music, something that Andrew loves and Josh has had a hard time getting into. A special Spotify playlist made by Andrew can be found here: https://spoti.fi/3TsLYqI. (Interview recorded on July 28, 2022.)