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Manager Minute: Stop Letting Documentation Drive the Bus — How Smart Tools Are Changing VR
VR burnout isn't about caring too little. It's about caring so much… while buried in documentation.
In this episode of Manager Minute, VR counselor Stephanie Nelson shares how she built VocRehabTools.com — a free collection of smart, practical tools (both AI-powered and non-AI) designed to give counselors their time back.
📝 Faster case notes 📊 Smarter assessments 🎯 Clearer job alignment 💬 Custom interview prep 📈 Real-time SSI earnings calculations
Not to replace counselors. To free them up to actually counsel.
We also tackle the real questions:
✔ Can AI be used ethically in VR? ✔ How do we protect confidentiality? ✔ What does human-first leadership look like in a tech-driven world?
If you've ever thought, there has to be a better way to do this — this episode is for you.
Listen Here
Full Transcript:
{Music}
Stephanie: That's when I had the aha moment and realized, hey, I can build something that will automatically generate the types of prompts or complete the types of tasks that I've already been given AI to help me with my work, but in an even faster and more efficient way.
I want it to be sure that I included reminders about how to use AI safely and ethically on the site.
My goal is really just not to recreate the wheel, but to have the VocRehab tools be like a one stop shop for a variety of stuff that actually make our jobs easier.
Intro Voice: Manager Minute, brought to you by the Vocational Rehabilitation Technical Assistance Center. Conversations powered by VR. One manager at a time, one minute at a time. Here is your host, Carol Pankow.
Carol: Well, welcome to the manager minute. Joining me in the studio today is Stephanie Nelson, VR counselor extraordinaire. So, Stephanie, how's it going?
Stephanie: It's going well. Thank you for having me.
Carol: I'm super excited about this. So for our listeners, I stumbled across Stephanie on LinkedIn. You know, I'm just scanning and her post, it caught my attention and I shared it with some coworkers. And Stephanie is a creator of some super cool, time saving tools that are meant to support VR counselors from doing all that excessive, crazy paperwork so that you all can focus on people. So I don't want to give away the farm before we get into this, so let's dig in. So, Stephanie, you've been in Voc. Rehab and Human Services for more than a decade. Tell our listeners a little bit about your journey and how did you find VR and what experiences shaped the professional you are today?
Stephanie: All right. So I promise that I'm not going to give you my full life story, my journey in VR. It actually started when I was a very young child. My mom was and she still is. This is probably her last year, a very dedicated special education teacher, and she was a transition coordinator for many years as well. So I grew up with sort of this like front row seat to the challenges that people with disabilities face. So I even remember visiting the local VR office with my mom many times as a kid. And while I didn't understand what the heck vocational rehabilitation was, but what I could tell was that the people in that office and my mom, they were helping people overcome challenges to improve their lives. And that just really stuck with me, that you could have a job where you help people overcome challenges. And I just thought that was really, really cool. So another experience that I think shaped me to be well suited for VR is that I actually started working when I was just 15 years old. So I've always had like the value of work really ingrained in me. But when it came time for college, I did quite a few different trials and errors on different majors and programs and schools, and I finally landed in a fully online program for criminal justice with the plan to become a probation officer.
Because I thought, what better way to help people improve their lives than to help them after they had legal issues? But I soon learned a hard lesson after doing some administrative work in that field, and that there's a big difference between helping people who want your help and trying to help people who are required to meet with you. So when I looked for a new career path where I could still apply my criminal justice degree, that's when I found an administrative role with Virginia DARS, fell in love with the mission immediately, and it was kind of a full circle moment, because that's when I finally understood exactly what they do at that VR office that I visited with my mom when I was younger. So within a year, I was promoted to what Virginia DARS calls the employment Services Specialist Senior role. And the more I was in that role, I realized that I really wanted to be a VR counselor because I wanted an even more direct role in helping clients and solving the problems. And I really wanted to streamline lots of the VR processes that I could witness in my employment specialist role, but I just didn't have the authority to change anything from there. So I went back for my master's degree, waited for the right opening, and stepped into the counselor role. And I've been here for almost four years now.
Carol: That is amazing. I love your background. It's so fun because you come in from, I had a mom too that got me into the field. So it's really fun that you come in kind of when you grow up in that and then use that. It really does help to shape you. That is exciting. And I bet a lot of good people come out of Virginia DARS for sure. I've done several podcasts with other colleagues. Yeah, that you have there. You guys always have a lot of very cool things going on. I like how your mind thinks, because when you and I had a chance to chat and you talked about I always like improving things. So how did this concept for vocrehabtools.com really take hold for you? Like, was there some moment where you went, oh, we need a better way to do this or what happened? How did this come about?
Stephanie: Kind of like you said. That's just kind of how my mind is. I've always been an optimizer, like, since I was also a kid. My brain just it naturally looks at any process. And I'm automatically going to ask, how can I make this better? How can I do this faster or more efficient? So since I started working at DAR's about 11 years ago, I probably said to myself that we need a better way to do this almost every single day. But as far as vocrehabtools.com goes, that concept really took hold just about 4 or 5 months ago, and it was actually sparked, you know, because I have that lifelong I'm always trying to learn. So of course, when AI has taken hold, I was really wanting to learn more about that. So it was sparked when I was listening to several podcasts about AI, and they kept mentioning how AI could be used to create apps. So one day I finally decided to give making an app a try myself. And when I saw that it was true that AI really could allow me to build apps and web pages quickly and easily, that's when I had the aha moment and realized, you know, hey, I can build something that will automatically generate the types of prompts or complete the types of tasks that I've already been given AI to help me with my work, but in an even faster and more efficient way. So it made me realize I could also do it in a way that I didn't have to just keep it to myself that other people could use it too. So that's it was about just a few months ago, and that's where it all started.
Carol: That was super cool though. Your first post that I saw and then I'm following you, I'm like, I gotta follow this person because I really just gotta be in my network. I gotta see what's going on with this. I could not even believe it. I'm like, wow, it's super exciting and I love AI. I mean, Jeff and I, we've gotten to do a few different podcasts with different folks about lots of AI initiatives in VR across the country, but not quite like yours. Theirs is a whole different deal. So what kind of gaps or frustrations were you seeing in VR practice, especially when you talk about doing assessments and documentation and progress reporting that convinced you a new toolset was necessary?
Stephanie: Well, for me, there were there were lots, but there's really three main frustrations in those areas that really, really pushed me to build this. And first and foremost is that case notes and by case notes, I mean, good case notes. They just take too long to write. You know, I'm often on the move because I do adults and students and schools and all that. Or I'm working between, you know, all types of different demands. So trying to capture and document all the details and all the nuances of a 45 minute meeting or conversation you just had while you're in your car or while you're between appointments. It's just stressful. So by the time you sit down at a desk, you know, usually the mental spark is gone and the details are fuzzier and fuzzier. So that was the main one is case notes. The second was in terms of assessments. There's usually like a bottleneck with formal vocational evaluations. And they're either really expensive to outsource or they just take a long time to get completed. And when I say long time, I mean mostly from like the client's perspective, because, you know, they don't usually understand all of the logistics and the reasons why things take a while in VR. So where something may be quick in our eyes as VR professionals, from the client's perspective, it can seem super long, and I was always really frustrated that my options seemed to be either skip the formal evaluation so they can move forward and just run with whatever information we already have, or make my clients wait. So the assessment tool that I built on there was really to kind of bridge that gap. And the third main frustration was just the mental bandwidth issue of working in VR and documenting the progress and the case notes, and coming up with the individualized progress measures for every client and writing justifications and the quality case notes. You know, all of that. It just can really be mentally and emotionally draining. And even the best counselors, they can get burned out. So I saw a need that, you know, we need something that can at least do some of this heavy lifting for us to help save the mental energy, you know, for our clients instead of our case management systems. The bottom line is that there's going to be things in our documentation and data requirements that we maybe can't make more efficient, you know, like or right away. There's lots of limitations and regulations and all of that. But I just thought if I can make any, any part of our work easier, then that should help alleviate some of the overall load. So that was really my main, my main purpose.
Carol: You've got counselors all over the country cheering right now. I can tell you because it has been something, you know, I've been hearing ever since our regulations changed with WIOA back in 2014. I remember my old staff like what just happened because it's always been complicated, but it got even more complicated. And we had, you know, 400 data elements to enter and all this other stuff. I thought we were going to have a mutiny. People were so upset. It just it's a lot. It's too much.
Stephanie: It is.
Carol: And how do you get back to counseling and seeing the people? I mean, that's the joy you get from your job. It's not, you know, pushing all this paper.
Stephanie: Right.
Carol: So for our folks who haven't visited the site yet, can you give us, like, what's the walk through? What do the tools do? Who are they built for, and what do you think is getting the most traction so far?
Stephanie: So VocRehabTools.com it's basically a website. It's made of mostly, mostly it's the keyword AI prompt generation tools. So you don't just type in hope for a good prompt, you actually go to a specific tool and fill out specific fields for the various tools like the client strengths, their unique barriers, their goals, their functional limitations and all that. And the tool will then generate a high level, very detailed prompt that you simply copy and paste into your preferred AI tool to get a result. From there, you can do whatever you might normally do with an AI result, such as, you know, ask it to make certain changes, or write it in a new tone, or do it again or whatever. And you can even modify the initial prompt that's generated from the tools to suit any specifications you might have. Because, you know these prompts, I wrote them, but someone else might want them written a different way, so you can even change that. Like, you know, most of the tools are generating prompts, but those prompts are modifiable basically. And right now there's ten tools on the site. But I do have more on the way. And I do just want to be clear that there's at least one tool right now that doesn't actually require AI. And that's the SSI Disability and Work earnings calculator.
So there's very likely going to be some new tools in the future that are similar in that they may not require the use of AI. And I say that just because I don't want people to think that the site is only made up of, or will only ever have AI prompt generation tools. But again, going back to the current set of tools on the site, if it's okay, I'll just run through and list them real quick.
Carol: Sure.
Stephanie: I think that might, you know, really give the best picture. So bear with me on the names. They sound really nerdy, but I think I think they do a good job of saying what they are. So we have the barrier buster, the job goal alignment checker, the progress measure generator, the remote work feasibility analyzer, the job coach training services, supported employment and customized employment rationalizer, a vocational assessment tool, the workplace readiness assessment, the job interview preparation generator, the voice case note editor and generator, and again that SSI disability and work earnings calculator. So as far as who is the tools are for I initially designed them more with VR professionals like VR counselors, evaluators, job coaches, all of those in mind. But I ended up actually building the tools so that they can even be used by any job seeker with a disability, or maybe their parents, or their caregivers or case managers, because I really started to realize that there can be multiple ways to use the tools.
So, for example, VR professionals can use them in their work kind of behind the scenes. Or VR professionals can use the tools like in real time with their clients, like right there with them. They can even direct the clients to use the tools independently or with a parent if they have the ability to do so, like a homework assignment or a part of a virtual job club. I mean, just the options are kind of endless as far as how to use them. So there's a lot of flexibility built in and how they can be used. And I even realized after creating them how beneficial they might particularly be for new staff, especially new staff that are brand new to working with people with disabilities. Because, you know, when you first step into that, it's a it's a new world. There's a lot of unknowns. Let's see. So lastly, regarding the tools that are getting the most traction, according to Google Analytics, the top three tools visited so far have been the Workplace Readiness assessment, the voice case note editor and generator, which is also my personal favorite, and that vocational assessment tool.
Carol: Very cool. I bet, because that case note business that takes a long time. Just like you say, you spend an hour with somebody or 45 minutes and then you have to go back and you're summarizing, and then you have four other appointments. By the time you get to it, it might be the next day. And the facts, you know, flee your brain as you've got so much stuff in there. I think that's super cool. I like that you said too, that you have some things that are not AI generated. There's other regular tools that folks can use because I know some people have that feeling like, oh, AI, you know, it can say scary, terrible things or wreck your stuff. So you always want to trust but verify like you..
Stephanie: Exactly.
Carol: You know, you you're writing in your things and you want to look at how does it come out and if, especially if you want something to have a certain tone that's really lovely. Like, I'll do that. Sometimes I'm writing something. I'm like, can you give me a better tone that's firm but yet friendly, you know, or whatever, instead of sounding like, you know, crabby in it. So I love that flexibility with AI to really help you do that.
Stephanie: Absolutely.
Carol: I know that VR is really deeply personal work, and I just wanted to know your feelings about how do you think about balancing that professional judgment and ethics and individualized planning with the efficiency technology can offer? Because I know this is kind of a hot button issue with people like, oh, I could never use AI. What are your thoughts about that?
Stephanie: I think that just solid professional judgment in all your ethical considerations. I mean, I really think or at least I hope, that those, you know, remain top priorities for anyone that works in VR, no matter what the new advancement or technology that might come out. And honestly, this was one of the primary factors that I considered it every single step of the way. When I was building the tools and the site itself, I knew that I would use AI in the tools ethically, that I wouldn't put in any personally identifying information. You know, I knew that I would use the outputs, just as those guiding recommendations and the starting points are rough drafts, but not the absolute answer, not the final product and all that. But I want it to be sure that I included reminders about how to use AI safely and ethically on the site. So on every tool near the prompt generation buttons, there's a bright yellow pop up box that reminds users how to use this technology in a way that's appropriate. Like you were saying, in addition to reminding people not to input personally identifying information. But I also really wanted to drive home the fact that these tools are for help. They're for enhancement. They are not replacement of human judgment or decision making. Ai just doesn't have the relationship with the client. No matter how much good data you give it. You know it doesn't have that, but the counselor does. So I really view the technology as, you know, like I mentioned, the first draft or like a research assistant. It's the help in the starting point. It handles all the data crunching and the formatting and the initial brainstorming. And I think that's what actually frees up the VR professionals, you know, mental energy and time so that we can apply that professional judgment and ethics where it matters most, like you said, which is in the human connection.
Carol: So well said. You really did say that. Well, because people forget AI is not the be all, end all.
Stephanie: No.
Carol: it can only like give you back like you have to put stuff in. It's not going to spit out. You can't just put somebody's name in and go like give me an assessment that it doesn't know the person, it doesn't know anything. It has no context. So it's only as good as the information you put in. And I do like how AI can really help you with tone and maybe a way of describing something, because sometimes you have difficult situations and you're trying to describe it, but you want to do it kind of in the best way possible. And the words don't always come to us to do it that way.
Stephanie: Right? Or like, you know, they can, but it would take a long time.
Carol: Yeah, the time factor is amazing. So I love that you said that, and I love that you have those pop up tools. I'm wondering what kind of feedback are you getting from people so far? I know it's only been up for 4 or 5 months, but are you getting any kind of feedback from counselors or other professionals?
Stephanie: Yeah. So right now the site is still kind of brand new. I have not actually received any like specific direct feedback and those types of terms so far. I've really just gotten the feedback like this is so awesome, I can't wait to try it. I can see how this is going to help, or I've bookmarked the site and all that, but no direct like quantifiable feedback yet. But I was thinking about that and I think I may know again, it's a new site, but I think it might actually be hard for me to maybe ever get that type of feedback. And here's why. Because I had my own hesitations in creating and publicizing these tools. You know, just because AI, like you said, it's still something that's new and not everyone is clear on how to use it or that it can be safely used. And I also see this being something where, for example, a counselor might be using one or all of the tools regularly, and it truly is making a difference in their work and helping their clients. But are they going to openly share that. Oh, I use VocRehabTools.com, That's a part of my success. You know, they might not want to just openly share that. Ai seems to be one of those things where we're all still adjusting to it. And like you said, there can be that fear if you're using AI, that people will think you're somehow cheating or that you're removing the humanness out of the VR process.
So I think it's just still in this weird phase where more people are using it, but they might still be afraid to admit it. And again, I think that's totally valid. But I also think that the more we are open about how we're using it and how we're using it safely, that I think that stigma might eventually change. But so suffice to say, I do have plans and a hope to get more solid feedback going forward. But until then, the only specific feedback I would have would be my own. And I know I'm biased, but I am a VR counselor and so I can say that the tools really have allowed me to do my job even better. I love saving time, but the time saving aspect from using the tools is really kind of secondary. They've really just allowed me to do my job better. So I guess, for example, like now I'm able to quickly and on the spot give clients some real time calculations, like with pretty colors and visuals about how much more money they'll have when they're working versus just receiving SSI. And they're not just like listening to me say it, they're watching me on this screen and watching like it being calculated. So it gives it some more validity. So I've been able to complete vocational assessments that have really generated some good ideas that neither me or my client had thought of before. In terms of potential job goals for them, I've been able to create custom interview preparation plans and just like minutes.
And one of them I actually shared with the parent of one of my students on my caseload and they were over the moon about it. I mean, like, to me, I was like, I just whipped this out like it's a plan. I mean, it's talking about how to practice for job interviews. But they were super excited about it and they couldn't wait to start working on it with their student. And I was like, oh, this is great. This is fostering parental engagement. Like this, yeah, this is cool. You know, if and if I didn't have the AI to print it out to be really custom for that client, I may just have not taken the 30 minutes to an hour that it would have taken me personally to do with just my own brainpower. So and like I mentioned, that the voice case note generator, that's really just been a lifesaver, because at most of my schools, the internet connection is so slow and the students come to me like back to back. So there's really no time for quality case notes. But with this tool, I can really whip them out in no time. And then I get to truly focus back on my students instead of typing the whole time that I'm with them. So my feedback, of course it's biased, but is that it's really been good, but hopefully we'll get some outside feedback in the future.
Carol: No, that's all good, I love that. Well, you clearly are thinking ahead, I can tell. And you're looking to the future and continuing to build. So what is next for you? Are there more new tools or partnerships or collaborations or expansion ideas you have?
Stephanie: Yeah, so I mean, I definitely have some new tools in mind. A couple that are currently in the works is a transferable skills generator, like a matrix, a task analysis tool to easily break down common work tasks into step by step lists. Really thinking about like maybe job coaches for that one and another one that I'm actually really excited about is a disability disclosure decision helper and script generator so that they can really customize creating that type of thing or like request for accommodations, especially even for interviews. Some of my clients really need them at that stage, and that's really hard. My hope is also to add more tools. Like I said before, that work right on the site without needing to go to AI. I'm also hoping to add more tools that assist with presets if I can. My goal is really just not to recreate the wheel, but to have the tools be like a one stop shop for a variety of stuff that actually make our jobs easier. I can envision there may be people who even stumble across the site who haven't heard of VR, and through using the tools or reading the blog, they may realize that they should apply for VR. So just thinking in terms of like, you know, the website also kind of can naturally act like a marketing tool for VR because, you know, a lot of people don't know about it. And just regarding partnerships. I mean, I'm definitely open to any potential collaborations, but at the moment, my goals really are just to keep the website as simple and fast as possible, because I don't want it to turn into a slow non-working, because that's not what we're trying to do here is make another non-responsive tool. And then number two, just to keep it as a free and public resource for as long as possible.
Carol: That is amazing. I am really excited about what you have cooking, because all of those things you mentioned are much needed. I think people will really love this, and I'm hoping we can help expand the word so people come and see your very free website. I can't believe you did all this work. It would be so great. So do you have advice for like VR leaders? Because we have listeners that are supervisors, managers, directors. What guidance would you give VR leaders about embracing technology in a way that strengthens and doesn't replace the human side of this work?
Stephanie: My guidance to VR leaders is to view technology as a way to buy back time for their staff, and to improve both the VR experience and outcomes for clients. We work in a field that's increasingly bogged down by documentation and data requirements, with systems that can take a lot of time to input that documentation and data. So when we embrace AI tools, even the simple little ones that I've built on my site, we're not trying to automate the counseling or rehabilitation process. We're not trying to take ourselves out of the process or out of the work. We're trying to remove the barriers that keep councilor's from helping their clients actually move forward. So my advice would be to lead with a human first technology second mindset. So as we always are anyway, keeping client confidentiality, transparency and the client preferences in mind. And by that I mean be a human and let clients know if and when you're using AI, explain to them how you're protecting their data when you do it, and don't use it if they request not to for their case, it's really no different. I don't think, than the informed choice and counseling methods that we're already using for other service provisions and processes, like, for example, when we refer someone for job coaching services or for a psychological evaluation, what do we do? We tell clients what the service is, why it's needed, how it can help us and them, how we will use the information that we get back and we provide informed choice about it. So using AI tools is ultimately the same concept in my mind. So if we just remain human focused, then we truly can use technology in a way that enhances and does not replace the human side of our work at all.
Carol: Yeah, I love that. I love that so much. So what would be the best way for our listeners to kind of stay updated with you? How should folks like interact? Where should they go?
Stephanie: Well, right now the best place is just right on the website. I don't have any newsletters or anything like that yet, so just right on the website which is www.VocRehabTools.com. I hope I got that right.
Carol: Yes, that's awesome. And they can follow you on LinkedIn too.
Stephanie: I was going to say yeah, they can find me on LinkedIn. It's linkedin.com/in/5t3f/ that's a little code word for Steph if you look at it closely.
Carol: Oh very cool. That is very cool.
Stephanie: Yup, it's about the site there too. So I'm open to connect with anybody if they want to find me there.
Carol: Well Stephanie, thanks so much for spending time with us. I really appreciate it. And I'm hoping we get the word out far and wide. I think you're on to something amazing and you've been doing a great job. And look at you're doing this all as you're like, side gig.
Stephanie: Yeah.
Carol: completely for free, I mean, everyone should come and look and go, oh my gosh. I think it's really incredible. Thanks a bunch. I hope you have a great day.
Stephanie: Thank you so much for having me.
{Music}
Outro Voice: Conversations powered by VR. One manager at a time. One minute at a time. Brought to you by the VRTAC. Catch all of our podcast episodes by subscribing on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening.
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By VRTAC Team
5
1414 ratings
VR burnout isn't about caring too little. It's about caring so much… while buried in documentation.
In this episode of Manager Minute, VR counselor Stephanie Nelson shares how she built VocRehabTools.com — a free collection of smart, practical tools (both AI-powered and non-AI) designed to give counselors their time back.
📝 Faster case notes 📊 Smarter assessments 🎯 Clearer job alignment 💬 Custom interview prep 📈 Real-time SSI earnings calculations
Not to replace counselors. To free them up to actually counsel.
We also tackle the real questions:
✔ Can AI be used ethically in VR? ✔ How do we protect confidentiality? ✔ What does human-first leadership look like in a tech-driven world?
If you've ever thought, there has to be a better way to do this — this episode is for you.
Listen Here
Full Transcript:
{Music}
Stephanie: That's when I had the aha moment and realized, hey, I can build something that will automatically generate the types of prompts or complete the types of tasks that I've already been given AI to help me with my work, but in an even faster and more efficient way.
I want it to be sure that I included reminders about how to use AI safely and ethically on the site.
My goal is really just not to recreate the wheel, but to have the VocRehab tools be like a one stop shop for a variety of stuff that actually make our jobs easier.
Intro Voice: Manager Minute, brought to you by the Vocational Rehabilitation Technical Assistance Center. Conversations powered by VR. One manager at a time, one minute at a time. Here is your host, Carol Pankow.
Carol: Well, welcome to the manager minute. Joining me in the studio today is Stephanie Nelson, VR counselor extraordinaire. So, Stephanie, how's it going?
Stephanie: It's going well. Thank you for having me.
Carol: I'm super excited about this. So for our listeners, I stumbled across Stephanie on LinkedIn. You know, I'm just scanning and her post, it caught my attention and I shared it with some coworkers. And Stephanie is a creator of some super cool, time saving tools that are meant to support VR counselors from doing all that excessive, crazy paperwork so that you all can focus on people. So I don't want to give away the farm before we get into this, so let's dig in. So, Stephanie, you've been in Voc. Rehab and Human Services for more than a decade. Tell our listeners a little bit about your journey and how did you find VR and what experiences shaped the professional you are today?
Stephanie: All right. So I promise that I'm not going to give you my full life story, my journey in VR. It actually started when I was a very young child. My mom was and she still is. This is probably her last year, a very dedicated special education teacher, and she was a transition coordinator for many years as well. So I grew up with sort of this like front row seat to the challenges that people with disabilities face. So I even remember visiting the local VR office with my mom many times as a kid. And while I didn't understand what the heck vocational rehabilitation was, but what I could tell was that the people in that office and my mom, they were helping people overcome challenges to improve their lives. And that just really stuck with me, that you could have a job where you help people overcome challenges. And I just thought that was really, really cool. So another experience that I think shaped me to be well suited for VR is that I actually started working when I was just 15 years old. So I've always had like the value of work really ingrained in me. But when it came time for college, I did quite a few different trials and errors on different majors and programs and schools, and I finally landed in a fully online program for criminal justice with the plan to become a probation officer.
Because I thought, what better way to help people improve their lives than to help them after they had legal issues? But I soon learned a hard lesson after doing some administrative work in that field, and that there's a big difference between helping people who want your help and trying to help people who are required to meet with you. So when I looked for a new career path where I could still apply my criminal justice degree, that's when I found an administrative role with Virginia DARS, fell in love with the mission immediately, and it was kind of a full circle moment, because that's when I finally understood exactly what they do at that VR office that I visited with my mom when I was younger. So within a year, I was promoted to what Virginia DARS calls the employment Services Specialist Senior role. And the more I was in that role, I realized that I really wanted to be a VR counselor because I wanted an even more direct role in helping clients and solving the problems. And I really wanted to streamline lots of the VR processes that I could witness in my employment specialist role, but I just didn't have the authority to change anything from there. So I went back for my master's degree, waited for the right opening, and stepped into the counselor role. And I've been here for almost four years now.
Carol: That is amazing. I love your background. It's so fun because you come in from, I had a mom too that got me into the field. So it's really fun that you come in kind of when you grow up in that and then use that. It really does help to shape you. That is exciting. And I bet a lot of good people come out of Virginia DARS for sure. I've done several podcasts with other colleagues. Yeah, that you have there. You guys always have a lot of very cool things going on. I like how your mind thinks, because when you and I had a chance to chat and you talked about I always like improving things. So how did this concept for vocrehabtools.com really take hold for you? Like, was there some moment where you went, oh, we need a better way to do this or what happened? How did this come about?
Stephanie: Kind of like you said. That's just kind of how my mind is. I've always been an optimizer, like, since I was also a kid. My brain just it naturally looks at any process. And I'm automatically going to ask, how can I make this better? How can I do this faster or more efficient? So since I started working at DAR's about 11 years ago, I probably said to myself that we need a better way to do this almost every single day. But as far as vocrehabtools.com goes, that concept really took hold just about 4 or 5 months ago, and it was actually sparked, you know, because I have that lifelong I'm always trying to learn. So of course, when AI has taken hold, I was really wanting to learn more about that. So it was sparked when I was listening to several podcasts about AI, and they kept mentioning how AI could be used to create apps. So one day I finally decided to give making an app a try myself. And when I saw that it was true that AI really could allow me to build apps and web pages quickly and easily, that's when I had the aha moment and realized, you know, hey, I can build something that will automatically generate the types of prompts or complete the types of tasks that I've already been given AI to help me with my work, but in an even faster and more efficient way. So it made me realize I could also do it in a way that I didn't have to just keep it to myself that other people could use it too. So that's it was about just a few months ago, and that's where it all started.
Carol: That was super cool though. Your first post that I saw and then I'm following you, I'm like, I gotta follow this person because I really just gotta be in my network. I gotta see what's going on with this. I could not even believe it. I'm like, wow, it's super exciting and I love AI. I mean, Jeff and I, we've gotten to do a few different podcasts with different folks about lots of AI initiatives in VR across the country, but not quite like yours. Theirs is a whole different deal. So what kind of gaps or frustrations were you seeing in VR practice, especially when you talk about doing assessments and documentation and progress reporting that convinced you a new toolset was necessary?
Stephanie: Well, for me, there were there were lots, but there's really three main frustrations in those areas that really, really pushed me to build this. And first and foremost is that case notes and by case notes, I mean, good case notes. They just take too long to write. You know, I'm often on the move because I do adults and students and schools and all that. Or I'm working between, you know, all types of different demands. So trying to capture and document all the details and all the nuances of a 45 minute meeting or conversation you just had while you're in your car or while you're between appointments. It's just stressful. So by the time you sit down at a desk, you know, usually the mental spark is gone and the details are fuzzier and fuzzier. So that was the main one is case notes. The second was in terms of assessments. There's usually like a bottleneck with formal vocational evaluations. And they're either really expensive to outsource or they just take a long time to get completed. And when I say long time, I mean mostly from like the client's perspective, because, you know, they don't usually understand all of the logistics and the reasons why things take a while in VR. So where something may be quick in our eyes as VR professionals, from the client's perspective, it can seem super long, and I was always really frustrated that my options seemed to be either skip the formal evaluation so they can move forward and just run with whatever information we already have, or make my clients wait. So the assessment tool that I built on there was really to kind of bridge that gap. And the third main frustration was just the mental bandwidth issue of working in VR and documenting the progress and the case notes, and coming up with the individualized progress measures for every client and writing justifications and the quality case notes. You know, all of that. It just can really be mentally and emotionally draining. And even the best counselors, they can get burned out. So I saw a need that, you know, we need something that can at least do some of this heavy lifting for us to help save the mental energy, you know, for our clients instead of our case management systems. The bottom line is that there's going to be things in our documentation and data requirements that we maybe can't make more efficient, you know, like or right away. There's lots of limitations and regulations and all of that. But I just thought if I can make any, any part of our work easier, then that should help alleviate some of the overall load. So that was really my main, my main purpose.
Carol: You've got counselors all over the country cheering right now. I can tell you because it has been something, you know, I've been hearing ever since our regulations changed with WIOA back in 2014. I remember my old staff like what just happened because it's always been complicated, but it got even more complicated. And we had, you know, 400 data elements to enter and all this other stuff. I thought we were going to have a mutiny. People were so upset. It just it's a lot. It's too much.
Stephanie: It is.
Carol: And how do you get back to counseling and seeing the people? I mean, that's the joy you get from your job. It's not, you know, pushing all this paper.
Stephanie: Right.
Carol: So for our folks who haven't visited the site yet, can you give us, like, what's the walk through? What do the tools do? Who are they built for, and what do you think is getting the most traction so far?
Stephanie: So VocRehabTools.com it's basically a website. It's made of mostly, mostly it's the keyword AI prompt generation tools. So you don't just type in hope for a good prompt, you actually go to a specific tool and fill out specific fields for the various tools like the client strengths, their unique barriers, their goals, their functional limitations and all that. And the tool will then generate a high level, very detailed prompt that you simply copy and paste into your preferred AI tool to get a result. From there, you can do whatever you might normally do with an AI result, such as, you know, ask it to make certain changes, or write it in a new tone, or do it again or whatever. And you can even modify the initial prompt that's generated from the tools to suit any specifications you might have. Because, you know these prompts, I wrote them, but someone else might want them written a different way, so you can even change that. Like, you know, most of the tools are generating prompts, but those prompts are modifiable basically. And right now there's ten tools on the site. But I do have more on the way. And I do just want to be clear that there's at least one tool right now that doesn't actually require AI. And that's the SSI Disability and Work earnings calculator.
So there's very likely going to be some new tools in the future that are similar in that they may not require the use of AI. And I say that just because I don't want people to think that the site is only made up of, or will only ever have AI prompt generation tools. But again, going back to the current set of tools on the site, if it's okay, I'll just run through and list them real quick.
Carol: Sure.
Stephanie: I think that might, you know, really give the best picture. So bear with me on the names. They sound really nerdy, but I think I think they do a good job of saying what they are. So we have the barrier buster, the job goal alignment checker, the progress measure generator, the remote work feasibility analyzer, the job coach training services, supported employment and customized employment rationalizer, a vocational assessment tool, the workplace readiness assessment, the job interview preparation generator, the voice case note editor and generator, and again that SSI disability and work earnings calculator. So as far as who is the tools are for I initially designed them more with VR professionals like VR counselors, evaluators, job coaches, all of those in mind. But I ended up actually building the tools so that they can even be used by any job seeker with a disability, or maybe their parents, or their caregivers or case managers, because I really started to realize that there can be multiple ways to use the tools.
So, for example, VR professionals can use them in their work kind of behind the scenes. Or VR professionals can use the tools like in real time with their clients, like right there with them. They can even direct the clients to use the tools independently or with a parent if they have the ability to do so, like a homework assignment or a part of a virtual job club. I mean, just the options are kind of endless as far as how to use them. So there's a lot of flexibility built in and how they can be used. And I even realized after creating them how beneficial they might particularly be for new staff, especially new staff that are brand new to working with people with disabilities. Because, you know, when you first step into that, it's a it's a new world. There's a lot of unknowns. Let's see. So lastly, regarding the tools that are getting the most traction, according to Google Analytics, the top three tools visited so far have been the Workplace Readiness assessment, the voice case note editor and generator, which is also my personal favorite, and that vocational assessment tool.
Carol: Very cool. I bet, because that case note business that takes a long time. Just like you say, you spend an hour with somebody or 45 minutes and then you have to go back and you're summarizing, and then you have four other appointments. By the time you get to it, it might be the next day. And the facts, you know, flee your brain as you've got so much stuff in there. I think that's super cool. I like that you said too, that you have some things that are not AI generated. There's other regular tools that folks can use because I know some people have that feeling like, oh, AI, you know, it can say scary, terrible things or wreck your stuff. So you always want to trust but verify like you..
Stephanie: Exactly.
Carol: You know, you you're writing in your things and you want to look at how does it come out and if, especially if you want something to have a certain tone that's really lovely. Like, I'll do that. Sometimes I'm writing something. I'm like, can you give me a better tone that's firm but yet friendly, you know, or whatever, instead of sounding like, you know, crabby in it. So I love that flexibility with AI to really help you do that.
Stephanie: Absolutely.
Carol: I know that VR is really deeply personal work, and I just wanted to know your feelings about how do you think about balancing that professional judgment and ethics and individualized planning with the efficiency technology can offer? Because I know this is kind of a hot button issue with people like, oh, I could never use AI. What are your thoughts about that?
Stephanie: I think that just solid professional judgment in all your ethical considerations. I mean, I really think or at least I hope, that those, you know, remain top priorities for anyone that works in VR, no matter what the new advancement or technology that might come out. And honestly, this was one of the primary factors that I considered it every single step of the way. When I was building the tools and the site itself, I knew that I would use AI in the tools ethically, that I wouldn't put in any personally identifying information. You know, I knew that I would use the outputs, just as those guiding recommendations and the starting points are rough drafts, but not the absolute answer, not the final product and all that. But I want it to be sure that I included reminders about how to use AI safely and ethically on the site. So on every tool near the prompt generation buttons, there's a bright yellow pop up box that reminds users how to use this technology in a way that's appropriate. Like you were saying, in addition to reminding people not to input personally identifying information. But I also really wanted to drive home the fact that these tools are for help. They're for enhancement. They are not replacement of human judgment or decision making. Ai just doesn't have the relationship with the client. No matter how much good data you give it. You know it doesn't have that, but the counselor does. So I really view the technology as, you know, like I mentioned, the first draft or like a research assistant. It's the help in the starting point. It handles all the data crunching and the formatting and the initial brainstorming. And I think that's what actually frees up the VR professionals, you know, mental energy and time so that we can apply that professional judgment and ethics where it matters most, like you said, which is in the human connection.
Carol: So well said. You really did say that. Well, because people forget AI is not the be all, end all.
Stephanie: No.
Carol: it can only like give you back like you have to put stuff in. It's not going to spit out. You can't just put somebody's name in and go like give me an assessment that it doesn't know the person, it doesn't know anything. It has no context. So it's only as good as the information you put in. And I do like how AI can really help you with tone and maybe a way of describing something, because sometimes you have difficult situations and you're trying to describe it, but you want to do it kind of in the best way possible. And the words don't always come to us to do it that way.
Stephanie: Right? Or like, you know, they can, but it would take a long time.
Carol: Yeah, the time factor is amazing. So I love that you said that, and I love that you have those pop up tools. I'm wondering what kind of feedback are you getting from people so far? I know it's only been up for 4 or 5 months, but are you getting any kind of feedback from counselors or other professionals?
Stephanie: Yeah. So right now the site is still kind of brand new. I have not actually received any like specific direct feedback and those types of terms so far. I've really just gotten the feedback like this is so awesome, I can't wait to try it. I can see how this is going to help, or I've bookmarked the site and all that, but no direct like quantifiable feedback yet. But I was thinking about that and I think I may know again, it's a new site, but I think it might actually be hard for me to maybe ever get that type of feedback. And here's why. Because I had my own hesitations in creating and publicizing these tools. You know, just because AI, like you said, it's still something that's new and not everyone is clear on how to use it or that it can be safely used. And I also see this being something where, for example, a counselor might be using one or all of the tools regularly, and it truly is making a difference in their work and helping their clients. But are they going to openly share that. Oh, I use VocRehabTools.com, That's a part of my success. You know, they might not want to just openly share that. Ai seems to be one of those things where we're all still adjusting to it. And like you said, there can be that fear if you're using AI, that people will think you're somehow cheating or that you're removing the humanness out of the VR process.
So I think it's just still in this weird phase where more people are using it, but they might still be afraid to admit it. And again, I think that's totally valid. But I also think that the more we are open about how we're using it and how we're using it safely, that I think that stigma might eventually change. But so suffice to say, I do have plans and a hope to get more solid feedback going forward. But until then, the only specific feedback I would have would be my own. And I know I'm biased, but I am a VR counselor and so I can say that the tools really have allowed me to do my job even better. I love saving time, but the time saving aspect from using the tools is really kind of secondary. They've really just allowed me to do my job better. So I guess, for example, like now I'm able to quickly and on the spot give clients some real time calculations, like with pretty colors and visuals about how much more money they'll have when they're working versus just receiving SSI. And they're not just like listening to me say it, they're watching me on this screen and watching like it being calculated. So it gives it some more validity. So I've been able to complete vocational assessments that have really generated some good ideas that neither me or my client had thought of before. In terms of potential job goals for them, I've been able to create custom interview preparation plans and just like minutes.
And one of them I actually shared with the parent of one of my students on my caseload and they were over the moon about it. I mean, like, to me, I was like, I just whipped this out like it's a plan. I mean, it's talking about how to practice for job interviews. But they were super excited about it and they couldn't wait to start working on it with their student. And I was like, oh, this is great. This is fostering parental engagement. Like this, yeah, this is cool. You know, if and if I didn't have the AI to print it out to be really custom for that client, I may just have not taken the 30 minutes to an hour that it would have taken me personally to do with just my own brainpower. So and like I mentioned, that the voice case note generator, that's really just been a lifesaver, because at most of my schools, the internet connection is so slow and the students come to me like back to back. So there's really no time for quality case notes. But with this tool, I can really whip them out in no time. And then I get to truly focus back on my students instead of typing the whole time that I'm with them. So my feedback, of course it's biased, but is that it's really been good, but hopefully we'll get some outside feedback in the future.
Carol: No, that's all good, I love that. Well, you clearly are thinking ahead, I can tell. And you're looking to the future and continuing to build. So what is next for you? Are there more new tools or partnerships or collaborations or expansion ideas you have?
Stephanie: Yeah, so I mean, I definitely have some new tools in mind. A couple that are currently in the works is a transferable skills generator, like a matrix, a task analysis tool to easily break down common work tasks into step by step lists. Really thinking about like maybe job coaches for that one and another one that I'm actually really excited about is a disability disclosure decision helper and script generator so that they can really customize creating that type of thing or like request for accommodations, especially even for interviews. Some of my clients really need them at that stage, and that's really hard. My hope is also to add more tools. Like I said before, that work right on the site without needing to go to AI. I'm also hoping to add more tools that assist with presets if I can. My goal is really just not to recreate the wheel, but to have the tools be like a one stop shop for a variety of stuff that actually make our jobs easier. I can envision there may be people who even stumble across the site who haven't heard of VR, and through using the tools or reading the blog, they may realize that they should apply for VR. So just thinking in terms of like, you know, the website also kind of can naturally act like a marketing tool for VR because, you know, a lot of people don't know about it. And just regarding partnerships. I mean, I'm definitely open to any potential collaborations, but at the moment, my goals really are just to keep the website as simple and fast as possible, because I don't want it to turn into a slow non-working, because that's not what we're trying to do here is make another non-responsive tool. And then number two, just to keep it as a free and public resource for as long as possible.
Carol: That is amazing. I am really excited about what you have cooking, because all of those things you mentioned are much needed. I think people will really love this, and I'm hoping we can help expand the word so people come and see your very free website. I can't believe you did all this work. It would be so great. So do you have advice for like VR leaders? Because we have listeners that are supervisors, managers, directors. What guidance would you give VR leaders about embracing technology in a way that strengthens and doesn't replace the human side of this work?
Stephanie: My guidance to VR leaders is to view technology as a way to buy back time for their staff, and to improve both the VR experience and outcomes for clients. We work in a field that's increasingly bogged down by documentation and data requirements, with systems that can take a lot of time to input that documentation and data. So when we embrace AI tools, even the simple little ones that I've built on my site, we're not trying to automate the counseling or rehabilitation process. We're not trying to take ourselves out of the process or out of the work. We're trying to remove the barriers that keep councilor's from helping their clients actually move forward. So my advice would be to lead with a human first technology second mindset. So as we always are anyway, keeping client confidentiality, transparency and the client preferences in mind. And by that I mean be a human and let clients know if and when you're using AI, explain to them how you're protecting their data when you do it, and don't use it if they request not to for their case, it's really no different. I don't think, than the informed choice and counseling methods that we're already using for other service provisions and processes, like, for example, when we refer someone for job coaching services or for a psychological evaluation, what do we do? We tell clients what the service is, why it's needed, how it can help us and them, how we will use the information that we get back and we provide informed choice about it. So using AI tools is ultimately the same concept in my mind. So if we just remain human focused, then we truly can use technology in a way that enhances and does not replace the human side of our work at all.
Carol: Yeah, I love that. I love that so much. So what would be the best way for our listeners to kind of stay updated with you? How should folks like interact? Where should they go?
Stephanie: Well, right now the best place is just right on the website. I don't have any newsletters or anything like that yet, so just right on the website which is www.VocRehabTools.com. I hope I got that right.
Carol: Yes, that's awesome. And they can follow you on LinkedIn too.
Stephanie: I was going to say yeah, they can find me on LinkedIn. It's linkedin.com/in/5t3f/ that's a little code word for Steph if you look at it closely.
Carol: Oh very cool. That is very cool.
Stephanie: Yup, it's about the site there too. So I'm open to connect with anybody if they want to find me there.
Carol: Well Stephanie, thanks so much for spending time with us. I really appreciate it. And I'm hoping we get the word out far and wide. I think you're on to something amazing and you've been doing a great job. And look at you're doing this all as you're like, side gig.
Stephanie: Yeah.
Carol: completely for free, I mean, everyone should come and look and go, oh my gosh. I think it's really incredible. Thanks a bunch. I hope you have a great day.
Stephanie: Thank you so much for having me.
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Outro Voice: Conversations powered by VR. One manager at a time. One minute at a time. Brought to you by the VRTAC. Catch all of our podcast episodes by subscribing on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening.