Join me as I sit down with friend, pastor, and now AUTHOR, Mark Renner.

He has a new book out filled with case studies of actual, real life situations that have occurred in his life and ministry, and others he has known.

It will help Christians everywhere be better equipped for facing the messiness of life and ministry. But as you'll hear, Pastor Mark also hopes it will help us reach people outside the Christian community that see us as out of touch with the real world.

It's a wonderful conversation about grace, forgiveness, and the power of Jesus to work in this world even through messy people and situations. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.