Mike talks with political scientist Matt Grossmann, Director of Michigan State University's Institute for Public Policy and Social Research, about his book Artists of the Possible: Governing Networks and American Policy Change Since 1945.

Topics Mike & Matt discuss include:

• how much of a role the public has in policy change
• the flaws in our standard notions of how policy change happens
• how Matt examined every major policy change from 1945 - 2004
• why policy favors the status quo - and liberal interests
• President Trump as a policymaker
• and lots more

Follow Matt Grossmann on Twitter

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