In this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with Matt Rodbard, Editor-In-Chief of Taste, the co-host of This Is Taste podcast, and his sub-stack, Food Time with Matt Rodbard, which is required reading if you care about what’s actually happening in food right now. Matt shares his Five Rules for a Food Writer’s Diet, from dialing in your relationship with alcohol, to balancing dining out with cooking at home, to traveling like a journalist, to permitting yourself to call simple meals “cooking.” We also get into coffee as a daily practice, the kind of ritual that sets the tone before the day starts moving too fast.

I love sitting down with Matt because the conversation always lands in that sweet spot between fun, useful, and insider whisperings. We can yap, we can talk scene, we can talk craft, and somehow it always ends with something I always think back on after we part. When food is both your profession and your personal driver, the line between work and pleasure gets blurry fast. Matt is great at naming the difference between mindless consumption and intentional living. Eating and drinking with intention is not about restriction, it’s about clarity. It’s about supporting restaurants, taking care of your body, staying present in the room, and building routines that make the whole ecosystem, your work, your relationships, your energy, actually sustainable.

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Intro

Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.

I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.

Today, I sit down with one of my favorite people to talk about the culinary community with, Matt Rodbard, who is the Editor-In-Chief of Taste, the co-host of This Is Taste podcast, and his sub-stack, Food Time with Matt Rodbard, is must-reading for anyone who wants insider insights for the food scene. He shares his five rules for a food writer’s diet. and talks about the importance of dining out versus cooking at home, that when traveling, how to get the most out of your adventures, and that by having a preferred coffee practice in the morning is the best way to ensure a fantastic day. I love any time that I get to sit down with Matt. It’s always filled with a fun conversation, a professional take on cooking, and some great takeaway tips for anyone who’s looking to get the most out of life when it comes to food. So let’s get into the rules.

Catching Up

Matt, it is always a pleasure to see you. I knew that we were going to get a late start because we were just yapping away before we even hit record. Welcome to the show.

It’s always good to chat with you. I know we were definitely talking about... Oh, no, we’re going to cut that out. But yes, we were having a very polite conversation about the scene out here.

I’ve known you for decades now. We ran in similar food circles in New York, and we’ve gotten to spend some time together in LA. You’ve been working in the food media industry for 20 years. Do you remember your salad days and those first few meals of eating out?

One of my first food stories was in 2005. I was working at a men’s magazine and I was working with consumer electronics and gadgets. And I took this egg McMuffin maker. Oh yeah. I took it to a restaurant called Chanterelle in Tribeca. Legendary place. Legendary. Run by David Waltock was the chef. I took the egg McMuffin maker there and had him test it out, which is cool. He had some funny thoughts. We wrote a little funny thing. And that was like my first real food media piece, which was 22 years ago.

Memorable Meals

I’m sure with such a long and illustrious career and you’ve traveled the world for not just taste, but for also your writings, your book, Korea World. Do you remember one meal that stands out that only would have happened because of your experience in this line of work?

From Korea world, Dookie Hong and I wrote that book together. And we were in Korea for that book specifically three times. We were outside Gwangju. We had this meal. I’ll tell you a couple of things about it. First, it was like a beck bong, 30 or 40 dishes laid out communal. I don’t drink alcohol. During the shoot, I was the only one not drinking. Yeah. My man, Dookie, had a few drinks. Everyone else got super f*****g s**t-based. Wow. It’s very traditional. We’re sitting on the floor. It was just pure joy to see everyone kind of tipsy. We were hosted by a wonderful Beck Soju maker, and she just started pouring these drinks and kept pouring and pouring and pouring. I just really loved that. The food, of course, was incredible. It was mostly local produce and a lot of like small fermentation dishes. Those are the kind of situations where I only could have gotten into that room with the work I do.

It’s so amazing. And I think that’s the addictive part to this line of work is getting access to those rooms and to having all these incredible meals. The other side of that same coin is that at some point your body gets older and you get older. When did you realize that you maybe needed more of a balanced approach eating out for work and being on the road?

Did it start with a conversation with my doctor? Like a hard conversation at the age of 30, which is 15 years ago. Perhaps. Perhaps that was it. What really started me on the journey of sorts towards thinking a little better about what I was eating was when I stopped drinking in 2015. I just felt like at the time I was just drinking too much. It was affecting my work. It was affecting my personal relationships. And it wasn’t a falling down drunk moment. People around me were dying. Josh Ozersky was a friend of mine. He died. I literally saw him the night he died at the James Beard Awards. It was the night before. And he looked really great. His spirits were super high. Also, I didn’t like the way the interactions that I was having with people in the industry at parties or at events when I’d had a couple cocktails. And remember, this is a decade ago. We’re like, let’s have a corpse reviver and then have a green point and then maybe have a fourth or fifth classic cocktail because everyone was so down with the classic cocktail revival at the time. And I wrote a lot about alcohol. I felt, of course, hungover the next morning. I felt, did I have meaningful conversations with these people? Or was it just a matter of me being drunk and trying to be funny? And to me, it had taken a toll. Either someone’s going to tell you that your cholesterol is higher than a normal individual, or you’re going to wake up a morning saying, I don’t like the way that I feel.

That really makes you think about how you want to approach, in many ways, what is a professional world when you go out to eat and drink, which is why I’m so excited for you to be sharing your five rules for a food writer’s diet.

Rule 1: Don’t Drink Much in Your 30s and Chill in Your 40s

Now, I know you just touched on this. Everyone is going to come to some reckoning with themselves when it comes to drinking alcohol. Your first rule gives a little bit more of a nuanced approach if you don’t want to stop cold turkey. What’s your rule number one?

Rule number one is don’t drink much in your 30s and chill in your 40s. The language is intentionally vague. I’m not trying to be prescriptive here. I’m not saying don’t drink in your 40s. I’m saying basically in your 30s, you’ve got to really watch your consumption. Be aware of what alcohol does to you. You know, learn in your 30s, earn in your 40s. That’s a long time saying. So I think in the 30s, you should be really absorbing what’s around you. You should be finding mentorship, all that. Alcohol can really stop you in your tracks. As you enter your 40s, I’m just saying just chill. Just be chill with your relationship with alcohol. Many people maybe don’t drink at all or drink one day a week. And I think in your 40s, you’re going to actually see a lot, a lot, a lot of results as you really curtail your drinking. You’re setting yourself up for the rest of your life. You want to be healthy. You want to be in a good spot. And your 40s sets that up.

Rule 2: Dine Out More, Cook the Most

A lot of the times that approach to drinking can be affected of where you are dining, whether it’s at home or whether you’re out and about where you feel comfortable or where you’re in control. And your approach to your rule number two can help you find that balance, not just in drinking, but eating and saving money as well.

100%. Rule number two, dine out more, cook the most. Preach it. Two things are here and they’re in direct opposition, kind of a puzzle, right? Here’s what I’m saying. You should dine out and support restaurants. You should learn about food. 100%. You should go out as much as humanly possible for your budget, be it one day a week, two day a week, three days a week, or more. It’s important. And really, food writer’s diet is a larger ethic I live by. And it doesn’t just have to do with what I’m actually consuming. It’s about the diet being how you consume food in your life. Everything about food. Yeah. Media is part of your diet. Recipes, health and wellness. That’s all part of the diet related to food. Through the years of being a food writer, I’ve definitely figured out that if I go out to restaurants more, I’m just going to absorb all these things better. But cook the most. If you’re eating out and you’re dining on your budget, balance that with cooking meals for yourself. We could talk all day about what cooking means. And it certainly doesn’t mean following a recipe from a cookbook and spending $100 and spending half the day no it could be literally opening three packages and putting them together pre-made rice pre-made sauce doll and some protein that is pre-cooked and you’re just heating it all up that’s cooking so i think you should do that the most dine out more cook the most so what do you got to cut out delivery man i haven’t gotten delivery in over a year to me is like do not get delivery

If it’s not prime pizza, I don’t think we’ve had anything delivered to our house in maybe a year. It unpacks some exceptions, and I will say that these rules definitely have some asterisks, and I think pizza is certainly one of them. Sometimes you just need pizza for the kids. Instead of getting Chinese takeout, go to the restaurant. Sit down and have the meal with your friends, with your family. Absorb what’s happening in the room. It’s better for the restaurants. Financially, it’ll be better for you.

Rule 3: Act Like a Food Writer When Traveling

Going out to eat when you’re at home feels like such a luxury, and it’s even more luxurious when you go out into the world and you start traveling. Now, I am definitely one to do a lot of research and to really think out all my meals and really understand where I’m going when I go and see different parts of this wonderful world, which is a fundamental approach to rule number three.

Rule number three, when traveling for vacation or fun, you should act like a food writer. Yes. What does that mean? A couple things. A good food writer does their research, but also a good food writer travels open-mindedly, travels with two eyes open. So of course we all have done this and we have our 50 to a hundred spots on the Google map of the city that we’re traveling to. Yep. Go to a few of those places, but also when you’re there, be it Stockholm, be it Madison, Wisconsin, you’re in Portland. Oregon or Maine you’re in Mexico City have a plan but also act like a journalist act like a food writer absorb observe and really understand your surroundings and really take some chances and let the story find you I’ll say just taking a walk talking to some people on the ground don’t feel like you have to hit the eight places on the map because I think the best writers find the story

Rule 4: Permission to Call Re-Heating Things Cooking

Going out into the world and looking at food through a writer or professional point of view, and then coming home and feeling that you also have to cook food, maybe something that’s topical or trending, can be overwhelming. It can be daunting to the point of where I know that I’ve had paralysis in the kitchen of Just saying, I’m going to open up a can of tuna, throw in some mayo, and put it on some stale crackers, and that is dinner. Your fourth rule allows me to say that this type of approach to cooking is more than okay. What’s your rule number four?

Rule number four is permission to call re-hitting things cooking. I’m here for it. We as food writers, we project this idea that you have to cook in a certain way, that you have to cook through a cookbook, or you have to make stock from scratch to put into that sauce. There’s been plenty of work around it where we debunk this and we say 30-minute meals are okay, et cetera, et cetera. I think we still, in an effort to explain home cooking, to flex our food writer badge, look, hear a cop showing up at an investigation, you click down the food writer. We tend to do that as food writers. We tend to try to project ourselves as experts by over-explaining and being a little bit more intricate with the way we describe food and cooking. I’m of the opposite opinion. I think that we need to democratize food more. Your example is great. A tuna salad on crackers with basically celery and mayonnaise and tuna. I didn’t say celery. Oh, sorry. You just shamed me right there, man. All right. Sorry. I had no celery for you, but just tuna and mayo. That is cooking. There was a whole era where Rachel Ray was basically dog for the semi-homemade approach. F**k that, man. That is great. That’s smart. And I think what’s happened since Rachel Ray to now is we have so many incredible products that arrive fully formed. Oh yeah. We’ve got freeze-dried soups and sauces from around the world using products that are local. I, as a food writer and part of the food writer’s diet, is acknowledging that that is actually really good, that you’re making that meal for yourself, that you’re actually turning on the oven or even not. You’re using the microwave. That’s still the act of cooking.

Being able to tap into the global network of pre-made products, whether it’s Chili Crisp, is such an amazing type of hack when you’re cooking at home, especially those workhorse Tuesday night, get food on the table meals. I mean, I sneak fish sauce into everything I cook. Shout out to Red Boat. Oh yeah.

Rule 5: Have a Coffee Practice

Your fifth and final rule flips it to the morning because that’s when the writer starts. That’s when sometimes they do their best work. And having this routine, this ritual in your life gets the day going and makes everything hit a little bit better. What’s your rule number five?

My fifth rule to really live the life of a food writer, to follow the food writer’s diet is have a coffee practice. I intentionally worded this slightly broadly because I’m not saying a certain type of process is better than the other. I’ve found myself really rewarded by thinking a little bit more deeply about coffee. Coffee is one of the world’s greatest affordable luxuries. Having a little bit of a deeper relationship with coffee and having a practice, you’re going to live a better life. You’re going to wake up excited to try a new coffee that you bought online, or you’re going to wake up and feel like you can make a cup of coffee that’s better than the cup of coffee that you’ve had to drink the day before because you were in your office early and they only had those push button machines. It could be espresso too. Not going to ignore that. You could have an espresso machine, make yourself a latte, learn some latte art. Maybe you’re using a scale, which I fully endorse. You don’t have to. I’m not making a rule that you have to have a scale, but having that practice and having that kind of ritual and that method and using the right extraction process using like a Chemex or a V60, you’re going to be able to rate the coffees that you purchased. You’re going to appreciate coffee in a deeper way. In fact, when I travel, I bring coffee with me to the room. I actually use a little camping dripper. Yeah. And I won’t leave my hotel room without drinking my own coffee. Makes a difference. And it truly makes my day better. It’s like bringing your own robe on a trip.

Wrap-Up

Matt, thank you so much for sharing these five rules. If people want to listen to the podcast or read the fantastic Substack or get your book, The show is called This Is Taste. And yeah, I write a sub stack. You should just check it out. I cover similar topics. It’s a place where I like to just write freely about fun stuff. And taste, tastecooking.com.

Amazing. Well, Matt, I can’t wait to see you in LA. Always fun to share a meal.

Darin, it’s been great to catch up with you. Thank you for inviting me on.

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