MAVEN

In this episode, Maureen gets real about growing up constantly on the move, learning to roll with change, stay grounded, and find the good in every new chapter. Surrounded by family and friends who dedicated their lives to service, she reflects on what it really means to live with purpose and give back. Maureen also reminds us that careers (and life!) rarely follow a straight line and sometimes, the best moments come from the plans we didn't make. Tune in for an uplifting chat about resilience, purpose, and the beauty of embracing the unexpected. https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenpeters/ ----------------------------------------- Episode Transcript:

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;33;10 Unknown You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode, I'm joined by Maureen Peters, Strategic Employee Experience Program manager, Maven co-chair, and military ally. In this episode, Maureen gets real about growing up constantly on the move.

00;00;33;10 - 00;00;52;27 Unknown Learning to roll with change. Stay grounded and find the good in every new chapter. Surrounded by family and friends who dedicated their lives to service. She reflects on what it really means to live with purpose and give back. Maureen also reminds us that careers and life rarely follow a straight line, and sometimes the best moments come from the plans we didn't make.

00;00;52;28 - 00;01;10;20 Unknown Tune in for an uplifting chat about resilience, purpose, and the beauty of embracing the unexpected. We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode, and please remember to check in on your buddies and family.

00;01;10;21 - 00;01;37;12 Unknown Maureen's contact details are on the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn. Maureen, what's going on? Hey Chris, what's up? Oh not much. What's what's going on? On your side. You know, busy, busy life. It's, kind of the standard around here. Just dealing with having a kid away from home for the first time. That's always fun to think that.

00;01;37;14 - 00;02;03;23 Unknown Yeah, you get used to it, I guess I hear. I don't know. Still working through it myself. Yeah. Yeah, it's a big change. It's a it's a big life transition. So that I look at you inserting the terms at that. Yeah. Nice. Well that's good. So you got the full background on your. I know the folks can't see this because it's audio, but the video background as far as how's how's Nashville in the fall?

00;02;03;25 - 00;02;22;26 Unknown It has been cold and rainy. So. But we are just getting the turning of the leaves on the trees, so it's great. I see all these trees and all this great color and everything else. It's. It's really nice. It's nice time of year. I just got back from, Florida, though. I've spent a long weekend in Florida, so it was warmth and sunshine and the beach.

00;02;22;26 - 00;02;51;20 Unknown And so, definitely hoping I can get back to that soon. Yeah, but, yeah, it's a nice place to visit. Yeah. Although summertime is probably not as moderate as now. Yeah, I was going to say that's why it's perfect. Fall spring. Not too hot. Gorgeous. Just again ordered. So. Maureen's here. Maureen has joined. Well, I'll let Maureen tell her story, but, Maureen's here as the co-chair of Maven.

00;02;51;20 - 00;03;14;20 Unknown So our military affiliated veteran employee network community inside of Oracle. And Maureen is an ally. And there there are some connections that again, I'll I'll pass the mic over and she'll she'll cover those things. But we're we're talking to Maureen today because this is episode two of season four. And we have a lot of things that are going on.

00;03;14;20 - 00;03;35;02 Unknown As was indicated just as we started talking, we want to talk about the perspective that Maureen has, the skill sets that Maureen brings to her role here, as well as what the vision for Maven is moving forward. If you listen to episode one, Scott pay for it briefly talked about what we were trying to achieve, some of the neat things we were working on.

00;03;35;02 - 00;03;53;05 Unknown It's what he said in the hopper. And so, you know, we'll take, perspective from Maureen, but before we do that, like we always do, Maureen, tell us a little bit about you. Well, I appreciate the opportunity to be here. And who the heck can follow? Scott's opening the season for that was, like, pretty good, wasn't it?

00;03;53;07 - 00;04;18;24 Unknown Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who is Maureen? Gosh, Maureen is, you know, a wife and a mom, and, you know, I grew up in a normal household, and, you know, I had friends and family who've served and everything else. And, I met my husband, similar to Scott. You know, he was saying that, you know, he was kind of not looking for the drama, the relationships or anything else.

00;04;18;24 - 00;04;39;15 Unknown And then bam, he found his wife. So it was kind of the same thing for for me in my world, you know, my husband and I wasn't looking for that relationship or that drama, but I, found my husband. He was recently transitioned out of the Marine Corps. You know, some people will say that I'm a military spouse, but the reality is, is, I don't deserve that honor.

00;04;39;15 - 00;05;10;11 Unknown He was in and out of the Corps before. I mean, once a marine, always a marine. So, you know, I live with that. But I never had to deal with PKS or deployments or anything else. I mean, my best friend deployed, the last year that she was in the Air Force, so, you know, spent a lot of time with her family, supporting her family, sending her monthly care packages with themed holidays and, you know, just trying to get her all the good stuff and help her through that last, that last year before she was ready to hit the button and leave the Air Force after 20 years.

00;05;10;11 - 00;05;32;21 Unknown So I'm a wife, obviously to my husband, Sam. I hope that my husband would say that is his lucky man. I know I'm a lucky woman. We had two beautiful kids. As I mentioned at the beginning, my daughter, just started at the University of Tennessee this fall. So goggles and I have a 16 year old son, who was a junior in high school and just starting his wrestling season.

00;05;32;23 - 00;05;55;12 Unknown So, as you can imagine, you know, between work and life and, you know, everything else, there's just a lot going on. It's always busy, always busy. Oh, now you're not. You're not originally from Tennessee. I am not I'm, one of the California transplants that the Tennesseans love so much. I left California, we left California about three and a half years ago.

00;05;55;13 - 00;06;17;21 Unknown But I'm not a California born and raised, either. I actually moved to California from Michigan. Let's see. I would have been almost 11 years old when I moved to California. My dad was on contract at Apple back before Apple was super cool, and he had been commuting back and forth for about a year and a half. And so when they asked him to extend his contract, he said, well, only if you move my family out to California.

00;06;17;24 - 00;06;40;18 Unknown So we moved to California in January of 89. And, it was amazing. I mean, going from, you know, Michigan cold winter to California in January and it was like 50 degrees outside. We were running around in our shorts and t shirts and everybody thought we were nuts. So when his contract ended, we had the opportunity to either stay in California or move back to Michigan.

00;06;40;18 - 00;07;02;00 Unknown And who wouldn't want to stay in California? There's a reason that it is the Golden State. It is beautiful. It is. Yes. And it always will be. So, you know, around 11, you said that you came from Michigan to to California. And what was it like moving from the Midwest into the West Coast? Yeah. You know, that's a that's a hard it's a hard transition.

00;07;02;00 - 00;07;27;05 Unknown My parents both grew up in Cleveland and or outskirts of Cleveland, Rocky River and, Lakewood for my mom and my dad went to UD. So that's what, you know, brought us to and brought him to Michigan. So it's really hard. I we had no family west of the Mississippi. All of my parents, siblings and family members were all in the Illinois, Ohio, you know, Indiana, Michigan area.

00;07;27;05 - 00;07;51;19 Unknown So it was really hard. It was a new start for us. But, you know, church and school and sports got us our own little network of people that have become our family, nice and and we're. Whereabouts in California? You don't have to be specific. Was it Northern California or where exactly? Where? Yes, absolutely northern. So, you know, Silicon Valley, my dad worked at Apple and he worked at tandem.

00;07;51;19 - 00;08;07;10 Unknown Both my parents worked for Cisco. I worked for Cisco. My brother worked for Cisco. You know, we all kind of had our little tenure there at one point in time. So we were in the Bay area, and about a year or so, I think, after my husband and I got married, we moved up to northeast of the Sacramento area.

00;08;07;10 - 00;08;30;14 Unknown So, and as expansion kept getting, you know, more and more and everything was growing, we just kept moving further and further out to kind of get away from it all. And, you know, so we loved it. Absolutely loved it there, but it was just too busy. And so when we after Covid and everything else, we decided that we weren't going to move, you know, we were trying to figure out where we wanted to go.

00;08;30;16 - 00;08;49;25 Unknown And a morning was not about to move back to Michigan. I did not want grand jury weather from November until April. So we were kind of figuring out where we wanted to land and, I had been traveling to Tennessee when I was working with Cisco. You know, they had an office in Franklin, which is just south of Nashville.

00;08;49;25 - 00;09;19;28 Unknown And so I had been traveling there, you know, fairly regularly and, loved it. You can't beat Nashville live music on Lower Broadway, which is totally my jam. So it was just one of the places it was a little, little south of, you know, where the family was closer to them, but not nearly as south as Florida. And the heat, although I really do miss the water, having lived in Northern California, being about an hour from North Shore and being, you know, like an hour and a half, two hours from San Francisco.

00;09;20;06 - 00;09;36;19 Unknown We had the best of all the worlds, right? I could go to the beach, I could go to the mountains. You know, now I'm kind of landlocked in Tennessee. I love it here. Great. I'm in a rural community. So I am I'm like an hour north of Nashville. So, just shy of the Kentucky border. And it's beautiful.

00;09;36;26 - 00;10;03;24 Unknown Beautiful here. I absolutely love it, but I do miss my water. Yeah. So North, you said North Shore. Is that Tahoe? Lake Tahoe? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we we spent most of our time, honestly, in South Lake Tahoe. That was my little happy place. And, you know, it's kind of the same, you know, as I, as we drive to eastern Tennessee and kind of hit that plateau, we start to climb those hills and, you know, get those Rockies, like, you know, that that hits home.

00;10;03;24 - 00;10;21;03 Unknown That's I'm like, oh, I really love this part of the state. It's just gorgeous, nice. But there's something to be said about the fact that I pretty much drive two lane country roads everywhere and get stuck behind a tractor and you're like, okay, you're just behind the farm equipment. It's all right. You know, it's a slower pace of life.

00;10;21;05 - 00;10;43;02 Unknown Sit on the front porch or the back porch. Drink some bourbon. That's a big change to, you know, wine country and everything else was so close in California. And there's no wine in Tennessee. Unless you're like strawberry, a blackberry wine. So became bourbon drinkers. Okay. Yeah. So the change, the change in the adaptation, then, I guess is something that you're familiar with.

00;10;43;04 - 00;11;04;22 Unknown What are some of the things that stand out as kind of the prominent considerations of when you're getting ready to make those types of decisions? Family first, you know, honestly, like what's going to be best for, for my kids, that's, you know, they are the driving force behind pretty much everything I do. I lost both my parents before I was 40.

00;11;04;22 - 00;11;25;21 Unknown So they are they are my everything. You know, it was what's going to be good for them. What's going to be healthy for them. You know, how do we make sure that they're going to be set up for success? So was there a lot of planning going into it before? I mean, you're talking about coming out of the pandemic, just trying to figure out what you're going to do, and then you decide that you're going to you're going to relocate.

00;11;25;24 - 00;11;44;28 Unknown Yeah. You know, it's funny, my husband was born and raised in the Bay area and, so he joined the Corps because he wanted to travel and see the world. And he didn't get very far and, stayed in California. So it for him, it was really nice because when we go back to visit family, it gave him an opportunity to see a different part of the country.

00;11;44;28 - 00;12;07;09 Unknown So different outside of California. So he had always wanted to move, but like I said, my parents, you know, both had their cancers. They, we struggled, you know, through their, their trials and tribulations. And so it was never something I was going to do or leave, just, you know, so after a while, we just kind of decided through the pandemic, why are we still here?

00;12;07;10 - 00;12;27;05 Unknown You know what? Where could we be that suits us better? And, after my dad passed, my parents had had this trip planned where I'm okay in the family. Everybody has to get all 50 states. That is a that is a goal that everybody in our family has, you know, tried to achieve and you can't, you know, can't be in an airport that doesn't count.

00;12;27;05 - 00;12;46;02 Unknown Your feet are on real ground. That's airport ground, and you can't fly over it. So you got to actually, like, touch the land. And, so my mom was trying to get her last seven states when my dad passed unexpectedly. And so they had this big trip planned. And, we had told her that we would go on the trip with her.

00;12;46;02 - 00;13;05;13 Unknown So we did a five week road trip in a minivan, and my kids and my husband racked up 26 states. So that's that was kind of our thing is we're driving this five week road trip. Where do you want to go? What do you like? What do you seem that, you know, speaks to you, Nashville or. Well, Tennessee was one of the one of the states.

00;13;05;19 - 00;13;36;26 Unknown Tennessee's South Carolina, we really like the South is. And so what specifically or explicitly got you to to to decide on Tennessee, what do you have any influence on that work did not have any influence actually. And maybe this will go into the kind of conversation that we've got today. But I have I have worked for Mote since my son was an infant and I was in mergers and acquisitions for, you know, a little over a decade, both here at Oracle and, and at Cisco Systems.

00;13;36;29 - 00;14;01;08 Unknown And so, I mean, the conversations I'm in due diligence. You can't sit in a cubicle and ask questions and, you know, do the things that you're supposed to do when you're under NDA. So my role had always been remote. My kids learned from a very early age to walk silently into my office and to not be anywhere where they could potentially show up on camera.

00;14;01;11 - 00;14;27;10 Unknown So yeah, so work didn't have any place in it, but huge value add and benefit that Oracle was going to be moving into Nashville. So I got here and the office was brand new and and by office we are leasing an office at the moment. So when when I came to Nashville, we I think we have to provide one floor and we have slowly taken over, pretty much every floor in that building and acquired space in a building a block away.

00;14;27;10 - 00;14;43;28 Unknown So, I love to go down when I can, when we've got events to do, especially with Maven. I'm an owl leader in Nashville as well. I go down, I try to be down there, at least, you know, once or twice a month. But, that commute over the ridge is not something that something I want to do every day.

00;14;44;00 - 00;15;02;24 Unknown Kind of like everywhere else, traffic in those big cities is is no joke. Yeah, I got better things to do with my time, man. Yeah. Yes you do. And we're going to talk about those things here shortly. What is what is owl. Owl is Oracle's women's leadership. It is another ERG that Oracle has is focused on women's leadership.

00;15;02;25 - 00;15;22;15 Unknown Owl is like all the other ERGs, is open to everyone and to all the allies. So it's not just women. We have men that come and attended as well. Right? When you're talking about leadership development, it shouldn't make a difference whether it's male or female, right? That doesn't have any bearing on it. It's all about, you know, who you are and what you're trying to do and achieve.

00;15;22;15 - 00;15;45;08 Unknown And so we have a lot of early in career people in Nashville that are our, you know, sales development groups and whatnot that are in office. It's been it's been really wonderful to to be a leader to help, you know, mentor these young ladies, through their tech journey. What are some of the things that you do for Owl that stands out is probably something that you look forward to doing most.

00;15;45;11 - 00;16;06;09 Unknown Oh, so last year I created this, what we call munchkin learn because we didn't know if it was going to be breakfast or lunch or happy hour or something along that line. So we have a we have a quarterly lunch and learn that we do. So it's a lot of things like last year's programing we started off with mentoring, then the importance of mentoring.

00;16;06;11 - 00;16;33;21 Unknown Then we moved to your brand and knowing what your brand is. And from there we moved to strategic networking and about how to, you know, network and meet the right people and, and grow that network and how wonderful your network can be for you and helping you throughout your career journey. And then our last one was about, kind of internal mobility, like how do you navigate what that looks like?

00;16;33;23 - 00;16;53;06 Unknown You know, again, a lot of them are early in career. So this is our first job right out of college. And, you know, they maybe didn't go to school to be in sales or, you know, one of my mentees went to be, you know, supply chain management goes like, well, how do you how do you pivot your career from sales to supply chain management?

00;16;53;06 - 00;17;18;17 Unknown And Oracle's a huge, vast company. And, I'd like to think that I've, you know, I've got a lot of connections throughout all the different, you know, lines of businesses being in mergers and acquisitions. Yeah. We were acquiring like, man, the first time I was at Oracle, I mean, I think I worked on not all of them came to fruition, but I think I worked on 42 acquisitions in the two and a half years that I was at Oracle the first time, because I am a boomerang.

00;17;18;20 - 00;17;43;09 Unknown So I was here, 2011 through 2013. Those were our big acquisitions like Taleo and Right now and Eloqua and everything else. It was chaotic and fun and, and everything else. But there's a lot and I think people, you know, they come in and they have their their role and they know their role, but they don't really know how big Oracle is and where they can go.

00;17;43;14 - 00;18;04;24 Unknown I mean, you know, I had a, one of my favorite VP's that I worked for, Suzanne Posner. She just retired, spent 25 years at Oracle, had been in, you know, marketing and sales and finance and operations. And, I mean, there's just so many different places that you can go. You don't have to have a linear career path.

00;18;04;27 - 00;18;26;06 Unknown You know, you can have a nonlinear career path and, you know, experience so much and you don't even have to leave the company to do it. So second that, yeah, I, I've been here forever too. Almost forever. I was like, we won't date you. Don't do that. Okay. No, no. You got to leave some some mystery to the experience.

00;18;26;09 - 00;18;55;18 Unknown So M&A so you said you joined in 2011 stayed in 2013. Yeah. And during that time with all of that activity around M&A, what was the common theme amongst all that change that was occurring from people that were coming into Oracle as a result of that M&A? Yeah, it was really hard. The hard thing about M&A, I think what people don't don't realize is that people, people and talent, to me, that's the most important thing.

00;18;55;19 - 00;19;15;24 Unknown Right. But there's a lot of redundancy. So I was specifically focused on sales, go to market, and incentive compensation, which is always just such a touchy topic anyway, you know, so you want your salespeople to come over because it's going to take time for your Oracle reps to, you know, learn the product, the technology and how to sell it and position it.

00;19;16;01 - 00;19;36;11 Unknown They have their own finance people. They have their own HR people. When you're acquiring them and integrating them into a line of business that already has H.R. Support and, you know, finance support and arts support and things like that, there's a redundancy in jobs. And, so, so that was hard. That was very hard on me, that weighed heavy on my heart.

00;19;36;11 - 00;20;02;19 Unknown And in a lot of ways, because, you know, well, you don't know everybody, you know, you can't keep everybody. And so that makes it a little challenging. So with that and you talking about roles and how you're going to integrate roles into what already exists, does any of your experience help with how you're going to manage those things that people are thinking, or what they're wondering about as they're coming into the company and the unknowns?

00;20;02;21 - 00;20;21;10 Unknown I think that that's kind of what drove me as I'm. Yeah, innately just, you know, I want to help everybody. And, and I don't like to say no. And, you know, I want to make it easier for people to do their thing. And so I think that's kind of how I ended up in, you know, the strategic employee experience world.

00;20;21;11 - 00;20;41;20 Unknown I want people to have a good experience. That's why I mentor so many people, because, you know, as as hard as it is to navigate your career and everything else, it's it's hard to do it alone. So, you know, I try to do everything that I can to take on as many mentees and share my knowledge and my wisdom and, you know, just help people through it.

00;20;41;20 - 00;21;03;27 Unknown Because at the end of the day, it's the people that matter. So you left. I did leave, I went to I went to Cisco Systems. I was there for about five years. That's a whole nother story. And, so Cisco was doing a lot of layoffs, and, you know, I got impacted, and, it ended up being a blessing in disguise.

00;21;03;27 - 00;21;23;19 Unknown You know, my mom was. I'd already lost my dad at that point in time. He had retired from Cisco and passed away six months to the day that he retired from Cisco. And, my mom, was ill, and, you know, so that time away, I took time. I got laid off, I think, and end of October, maybe.

00;21;23;19 - 00;21;46;07 Unknown And so I was like, well, I'm not going to even attempt to look for a job until the beginning of the new year. Having been an HR and recruiting in the past, like, it's a tough it's a tough time in November, December to be looking for a job. So I was just going to take the the severance that I had and just enjoy my time and, you know, funny, I had my my great Oracle M&A people that I had worked with was like knocking on my door, hey, you should come back.

00;21;46;07 - 00;22;08;13 Unknown I was like, no, no, I don't know that. I want to come back to Oracle and look at me now. I've been here, come back for, seven years. So, well, my boomerang and the way that Oracle calculates their, you know, time and service, I think I'll hit my ten years, in January. Nice. Yeah. Congrats.

00;22;08;15 - 00;22;33;03 Unknown Yeah, that's a pretty good. So let's stay there for a minute and talk about an antidote and anticipate a change. Life change. Prioritization and then goals. I mean you had unplanned change in career and then clearly you had the mindset to, to look at it from a perspective of an opportunity to do something else and focus on something else, which is your family.

00;22;33;03 - 00;22;58;11 Unknown And you said that early on. Family first. Yeah. What's interesting is you gave yourself the time. Help us understand, how did that go down to where you decided that I'm going to do this until I don't want to? And you, you gave yourself an end state of when you wanted to go back and continue on your career. You know, I don't know that I, I don't know that I've really put a lot of time and like, a lot of thought into it.

00;22;58;11 - 00;23;33;10 Unknown I just. I, I've worked for people in the past that taught me a lot and, you know, good relationships and unhealthy, toxic manager relationships. So I knew when I left Cisco that it was time to allow myself to be picky about who I wanted to work for. When you get bounced around from manager to manager to manager and it's not your choice, it doesn't feel good all the time and, I'm a big believer in people and personalities.

00;23;33;10 - 00;24;05;25 Unknown And if I were to think about my 515 strengths, positivity is is one of mine. Shocking, right? Blows my mind. Didn't see that coming. Arranger achiever positivity. Individualization. What in the world is my other activator? So yes, probably no surprise whatsoever. So individualization is one of my strengths. I. I always see the good, I always look for the upside in people, and I always try to find something that I can relate to them with.

00;24;05;25 - 00;24;25;13 Unknown Like, you know what? How can we connect together? Because connectedness is very important. So I knew I wasn't going to just work for anybody. I wasn't going to just take a job to take a job. I had done that before, you know, I've been down that road. So when Oracle came knocking again, my coworkers, they were like, it's really different.

00;24;25;13 - 00;24;47;19 Unknown You should think about it. So I came back to Oracle in April of 2018. I think I was back for not even a whole month, I think. And my mom was told she had about three weeks to live. And so I looked at my boss and I was like, I'm sorry, but you know, I've gotta I gotta spend some time.

00;24;47;19 - 00;25;06;12 Unknown And they were like, do what you need to do. Take it, take as much time as you need. And that was a huge change from an Oracle perspective. I was not expecting that. I was thinking, how am I going to manage this? And, so yeah, so it's gone a long way. I had some really great, really great managers.

00;25;06;15 - 00;25;09;29 Unknown Being back at Oracle.

00;25;10;02 - 00;25;30;27 Unknown So let's talk about that culture selection. You decided things leading up and and then for painting the picture for everybody that's listening, you know, the story, the reason why we talk about an individual and we ask for a little bit of backstory so we can see things develop and look where the true heart of someone is sitting when decisions are being made.

00;25;30;27 - 00;26;01;00 Unknown And of course, contributions to things that are for the greater good or bigger than one individual where it comes from. So how how did that make you feel when you came back and sorry for your loss on both your mom and your dad? And when you're now faced with a new situation in your career and what you heard the news about your mom, and you are allowed now to take the time that you needed, what did that do for you?

00;26;01;02 - 00;26;16;16 Unknown Yeah, I think it just took one of those many balls in the air that I have to figure out how to juggle every day. I just took it out. I didn't have to worry about it. And let me be clear, like, I mean, my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer when I was 17 years. Yes, 17 years old.

00;26;16;18 - 00;26;32;00 Unknown You know, she lived for 23 years battling this. You know, my dad had his cancer. My parents. I think one of the things that I learned, one of the best things I learned from my parents was like, like a short live it to the max. So when I say that my parents, like, struggled with their cancers. Sure.

00;26;32;00 - 00;26;48;24 Unknown Absolutely. But that they still travel the world, did they still act semi-retired while they were still working? Yes, because they knew like they didn't know how long they were going to have. And that's one of the things that, you know, I've really tried to instill in my children and in my family life is too short. You know, you've got to do the things that you're interested in doing.

00;26;48;25 - 00;27;11;19 Unknown You can't wait until you're financially stable to have babies, and you can't wait until you know you're this old to be able to travel. No, go live life. I mean, don't put yourself into debt by any means, because, you know, I'm definitely fiscally responsible. But, you know, there's there's something to be said, you know, go out to dinner, go have the laughs, go do the fun things and, that's kind of how I live my life.

00;27;11;20 - 00;27;37;18 Unknown You know, I don't live to work, but I, you know, I don't necessarily work to live either. You know, you have to you got to find all of that balance and coming back to Oracle's been has been a great thing for me. It's really allowed me, the space to just explore what I'm interested in doing. So I came back doing M&A and I had a manager that was very supportive and, you know, it was like, hey, like, are you doing what you want to be doing?

00;27;37;18 - 00;27;54;05 Unknown Are you happy with what you're doing? And, you know, having a manager that says, hey, get involved? I mean, you know, that's how I met you. You you ended up in our organization. I found out about me. Then I was like, what is this organization? How do I get involved? Actually, I think I'm pretty sure you said to me, you need to come be involved.

00;27;54;07 - 00;28;22;07 Unknown But, you know, I was, you know, I'm like that. Something like that. Hey, we need you. You can be part of our team. And and it was like, the minute I joined Maven. The minute that I came aboard, it was like coming home. It was. It was familiar. It was, you know, people that just have the same, you know, mentality and that, you know, love of other people and camaraderie and teamwork and support.

00;28;22;07 - 00;28;46;16 Unknown And, you know, we're all going through different things and different stages in our lives. But, you know, that's how we connect. That's how we, you know, pull together as a group and, and support each other. So it was like coming home and having that sense of belonging has been I mean, tremendous. Now, thanks for that and thanks for sharing that that the perspective is, is nice.

00;28;46;18 - 00;29;16;04 Unknown One, two here, to to make the correlation between, the, you know, of the multiple sides there could be in one's life. You know, there's the, the personal and professional. And when you find an alignment in seeking opportunity and it seems like with your enthusiasm of all your strengths, as you mentioned, no surprise that when you when you look at things, you see things a certain way and opportunistic is is one way of saying, well, that looks like something I want to get involved in, and then you do it.

00;29;16;06 - 00;29;40;03 Unknown That is, in fact, if you haven't yet met Maureen, that is her M.O., you know, she sees something and it seems to be aligned with what needs to occur, and she'll drive it. And there's a lot of excitement that will come out of that from from the people around her to and, and so that that energy is not only appreciated, but it's, necessary in sometimes when, you know, we try to boost people up, keep moving things like that.

00;29;40;03 - 00;30;08;27 Unknown So, so around 2021 ish, 22, you got involved and you started to do things, talk about some of the things that were happening back then and where things are now. One, 2 in 2 areas, one your career and then two with Maven. I think I was still working in M&A when I joined Maven, but I think I really quickly transitioned into a new role.

00;30;08;29 - 00;30;38;10 Unknown My VP that I was telling you about, Susan Posner, she had posted in the Women's Apple Channel, that she had her role open, focused on customer and employee experience. And I've read the job description. Oh, that sounds amazing, right? If I have the ability to like, you know, touch the employee experience and make that something that can be so much better and so much grander, and, and help our customers, you know, at the same time, that would be a huge shift.

00;30;38;10 - 00;31;15;23 Unknown And again, I worked at M&A, so, you know, was never in the depth of an organization, you know, like a sales organization. I supported them. I help them from an operational perspective and everything else. But I never actually been in the business. So that was a big change. And, I really enjoyed that. I it was a lot of fun and, you know, for an org to actually put some people and money behind having an experience at work, not just here to make your number, but we want to we want to look at you holistically as an employee, and we want to look at we we designed, a program called Living Your Best

00;31;15;23 - 00;31;47;25 Unknown Life. And it had five pillars focused on career development, continuous learning, social, getting involved and, you know, everything else giving and wellness because all of those things are what make up people and the things that make them happy and feel fulfilled. And we wanted our, you know, our employees to feel like they're, you know, they were valued and that, you know, we cared, that we encourage them to go learn.

00;31;47;25 - 00;32;10;11 Unknown We encourage them to pursue, you know, careers. And so we wanted it to be like this destination location and within Oracle to say, you've got all of this opportunity to, you know, to be who you are, bring your authentic self. And you know, that spoke to me because that's how I live my life. I'm 100% authentic. And, you know, some people like it.

00;32;10;11 - 00;32;31;21 Unknown Some people might be a little much for, you know, sometimes more. You can get a little crazy with her energy. I'm pretty sure there's somebody sitting across the microphone. For me, it was like, hey, I need to tone that down a little dosage, right? Moderation. So I know I can be a little much and that's and that's cool.

00;32;31;23 - 00;33;03;14 Unknown But, you know, it gave us it really just it allowed us to focus on so many different things, you know, and when you can plan quarterly giving events, you know, things where we are, you know, for example, we we created, these volunteer projects that we would run across, you know, eight major locations. Right? So imagine the imagine the lift of trying to get people to help you because you're not boots on the ground in those locations to run these volunteer projects.

00;33;03;16 - 00;33;23;05 Unknown We did all we did a lot of to lift ourselves so that they just had to, you know, make it happen on the ground. But, you know, get our remote employees to use an Amazon wishlist to donate school supplies, get the People's in the hubs to fill the backpacks, and then to give them to our customers to give out to their customers.

00;33;23;07 - 00;33;47;11 Unknown We did it with, chemo goodie bags. We did the same thing. So yeah. So we were able to bless our customers with items that our employees were donating, you know, the goodness of their own hearts to want to contribute to these projects. And, you know, we had, Johns Hopkins and Vanderbilt and Stanford and, you know, we were able to say, hey, we've we've made these 100 chemo goodie bags.

00;33;47;14 - 00;34;06;26 Unknown We care about your patients to help them while they sit in the chair for four hours and get an infusion, you know, so we did volunteer projects. We did heart healthy bingo. And you know, February, you know, we get our employees, hey, get up, go be active. You know, we do the same. Maven, right. Hey, Maven. Friends coming up.

00;34;06;26 - 00;34;27;20 Unknown We want people to be out there. Go do something. If that's meditating, that's fantastic. It's all about, you know, your mental wellness and your and your health, well-being and everything else. And so it was really, really impactful for a line of business to have employees that were driving these programs, you know? So I try to do the same.

00;34;27;20 - 00;34;48;03 Unknown I try to try to do that with Maven. I try to do that with our, you know, try to, you know, where we can make sure that people understand we're we're not just looking for you to be the little worker bee and not care about anything else. We really do want you to have that exceptional employee experience, and that's important work.

00;34;48;03 - 00;35;24;21 Unknown And to think the thing that I was looking at around the time that you're talking about, where these things started to become more prominent in our workplace, it it was a little confusing at times because there's a separation from work and personal activity at times where people are like, I just want to come to work, you know? But if you think about the majority of the time that one spends with their mind on work and then being at work, you know, these things, you had to unravel how you felt about this stuff because you did find value once you participated in these things.

00;35;24;21 - 00;35;47;01 Unknown It was a nice break in the monotony of of a concentrated effort to do what was required of you and your role in the workplace, and these breaks allowed you to distribute your focus. The relationships evolve in different capacities, you know, explore different ways of doing what you do, whoever you are, and whatever it is that you were doing, it was it's important work.

00;35;47;08 - 00;36;10;25 Unknown And so the volunteering component is as important as the work itself because of the things that you talked about, the philanthropic outcomes and the benefits in those types of things, of whoever's receiving these things. But you feel good, you know, and you feel like you're doing things that are personally adding to who you are and who you want to be.

00;36;10;27 - 00;36;32;23 Unknown So that's the essence of continuing the mission to serve, right? It's it's not just service in the military or in that sphere. You know, the military affiliated community is, you know, your service to people is to service to self. And some of those things, you become selfless and you do things for other people. You feel good, you're helping other people feel good, and then you're bringing harmony and unity.

00;36;32;23 - 00;36;54;07 Unknown And in the sphere of where you are, your circle. Yeah. So you when you came in to Maven, you were helping in key areas and then you, moved into an operational role where you drove a lot of activity. There was a spurt there. So a couple of years ago where we were doing a lot of events.

00;36;54;09 - 00;37;27;19 Unknown Yeah. And, you know, coming out of Covid, man, I was just going to say, yeah, people only had that interaction. They were, you know, craving that engagement, you know? So the timing was really great between both me joining Maven and me joining the sales organization. And, you know, because people were they were hungry for that, you know, that ability to connect and, you know, do things and maybe, you know, with as many people as they are remote, you know, you can still engage people and do amazing things together, even though your remote.

00;37;27;22 - 00;37;58;08 Unknown Yeah, it changed the whole dynamic of what what connectedness means, right. And and adapting to the new way of doing it, the new style of connectedness through remote or virtual engagement, you know, and reintegrating face to face interactions became equally important. So now you have that balance. And so we've done pretty well in managing that. You've been a key part of that, having you move into the co-chair role and helping lead the vision and the strategy, and not just the operational functions, where you you're now kind of the trifecta, the triple threat, right?

00;37;58;08 - 00;38;21;16 Unknown So you have the experience and the passion and the purpose deep inside your heart of wanting to do this, as demonstrated through what you just talked about for years, you've been doing these types of things with M&A activity, bringing on new employees from an acquisition in high stress environments, getting them assimilated in and integrated inside now their workplace, making them feel like they're a part of something which is a huge challenge.

00;38;21;19 - 00;38;41;09 Unknown And then, you know, you moved into a role where that was your job, which is amazing. And then now it's an all volunteer environment to where it's it's not even a hobby. It's a passion where all of those things meet each other. Talk a little bit about what you're doing now in that space as a co-lead, and then the strategy and the vision for what's to come.

00;38;41;11 - 00;39;07;00 Unknown You know, I still suffer, you know, from this imposter syndrome. Like, how am I the co-chair? Why am I the co-chair? There's got to be other people who are, well, more suited for this. And, you know, I didn't serve. I mean, I've got so many friends and family that have served, but I didn't. And, you know, so that it it's been a little bit, challenging, but I, I, I think about it, from the people mindset.

00;39;07;00 - 00;39;27;04 Unknown What do they need? What are they looking for? You know, Scott talked about servant leadership and everything else. So I feel like that's definitely, a huge play. And what I do and why I'm here and everything else. Because it is about giving back, and it's about, you know, touching those people and the things that we can bestow upon them and bless them with.

00;39;27;06 - 00;39;51;02 Unknown And it and it's not even tangible things. Right. It's the time, it's the support, it's the energy and those types of things. So that's kind of what I think of when I'm thinking about, oh my gosh, how did I end up in this position? Why am I in this in this role? Because I do. I have such an innate love for people who are serving our country and who have served our country.

00;39;51;02 - 00;40;08;26 Unknown I mean, I have an immense pride in our country. I have an immense pride in the people that do this. It's very honorable. And I know that there are so many veterans that I talk to regularly that are like, I don't need you to thank me for my service, you know, or, I say things like, they selflessly are serving our country and they're like, no, I was selfish.

00;40;08;26 - 00;40;28;16 Unknown I did it because I wanted the benefits. I'm like, nope. I'm pretty sure you put yourself, you know, on that line that, you know, and you probably know a whole lot more about the statistics behind, you know, how many people actually serve. We've got law enforcement. We have our first responders and and the military. And I think that is just huge.

00;40;28;16 - 00;40;51;03 Unknown And, you know, Maven and what we're trying to achieve from a maven perspective, I mean, I fell in love with the mission. You know, that ability to continue to serve. Am I the person that's going to show up and take on a tough job and totally slay 100%, you know, hard work? I love that. I love that about our community and love that, you know, that is a driving force.

00;40;51;03 - 00;41;16;14 Unknown So my messages to hiring managers and to companies that they that people that they can get, you know, that you can talk about talent and you can talk about smart people and you know, everything else. But those soft skills, that resilience, you can't tell me, military spouse, I mean, those spouses go through so much, right? They are managing so much.

00;41;16;14 - 00;41;38;23 Unknown And and I think that that's just we have to we have to advocate for them. We have to, you know, do everything that we can to keep these military spouses employed to, you know, that when they change stations, they shouldn't have to give up their entire world. Oracle's very lucky we have that flexibility. So why are we not doing everything and shouting from the rooftops?

00;41;38;25 - 00;42;04;14 Unknown You know, about the things that we can do to, you know, support more military spouses through these, in these changes, you know. Yep. No. That's good. That and very specific and intentional. So thanks for thanks for yeah. Revealing yourself to that part and how important it is is obvious. So as we wrap this up what's what's big coming up that Maven is going to help support and drive.

00;42;04;17 - 00;42;25;06 Unknown Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's it's really about how do we support our military spouses, how do we get our word out and advocate and talk to people about transitioning out of service and and coming into Oracle and what that looks like? And I think that's going to be a huge thing. You know, we're hiring right now like mad for data center technicians.

00;42;25;08 - 00;42;41;02 Unknown This is a great opportunity for people that are transitioning out of the service to come in and take those types of roles, right. They've got the skill set. They know what it's like, spend a couple years and you go and you learn the skill and the training and everything else, and then you see where it takes you from there.

00;42;41;02 - 00;42;59;17 Unknown And so I think that's that's a lot of what we're going to be focusing on is, you know, how do we, you know, how do we support those that are transitioning out of service. How do we make Oracle a place that they want to come to, and how do we support our military spouses and offer them, you know, flexible employment?

00;42;59;19 - 00;43;42;02 Unknown Yep. No, I gotcha and thanks for that. So, Maureen, thank you for being consistent with who you've been and then bringing those traits and values inside what you do for others. And again, you know, the mindset of looking at what other people are going through and considering, you know, where their their minds are set under pressure on change, you know, whether it's a merger and acquisition, where your professional career is up in the air based off of things that are uncontrollable, settling in to what you need to focus on and having you as a as a representative, along with the others that do this kind of work, have them settle into some norms that they

00;43;42;02 - 00;44;04;23 Unknown can wrap their head around and focus on, maybe be distracted by until things are worked out and a little bit more concrete. Change is tough. You demonstrated the experience by choosing to go through change in your relocation and of course, the things that go along with family and and the unfortunate realities of what goes along with family as well.

00;44;04;27 - 00;44;23;29 Unknown There's a lot of things that you're doing that you're paying it forward to those coming up behind us. And so we're grateful for that. Grateful for your support. Final comments. Yeah. So, you know, as as we're talking about it and as I think about it, you know, that linear career path is something I think that those that are in the service are so used to.

00;44;24;03 - 00;44;50;15 Unknown And, you know, you climb those ranks and you know, and at Oracle, you don't have to have a linear career path. You have the flexibility. You have the ability to change, you know, different lines of businesses, different job functions. There's so many different things that you can do and try your hand at. And, you know, I think it just provides a lot of opportunity for people to, grow in whatever areas they're looking to, to grow themselves.

00;44;50;15 - 00;45;11;09 Unknown So I'm blessed, you know, I'm blessed to be here and I'm blessed to be a part of Oracle. I'm blessed to be a part of me. And there's something to be said about finding joy in all the things and and finding joy in your work. And and maybe as if it's another full time job, I feel like. Right.

00;45;11;11 - 00;45;27;20 Unknown But I love it. I absolutely love it when you're when your heart is happy and your heart is full. There's no better way to live. And we will leave it there already. One. Keep moving forward.

After 23 years of service as a United States Navy Submariner, Scott retired and embarked on a new journey joining the Oracle Cloud Infrastructure Engineering team where he quickly found his stride leading and building successful teams. In this episode, Scott takes us through his incredible journey, from growing up in a military household to enlisting in the Navy. His path was filled with invaluable lessons, but not without facing and overcoming self-imposed barriers. Not one to phrase it this way, Scott humbly shares the pivotal moments that helped him evolve into a true leader and someone people actually want to follow. He opens up about how the most rewarding experiences in life cannot be rushed or faked and he explains how he learned this lesson the hard way. Tune in for a raw and powerful conversation on leadership, relationships, and perseverance.

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Episode Transcript:

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;29;13 Unknown You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and welcome to season four's first episode, where I'm joined by Scott Pay for Oracle Site Reliability Director, Maven chair, and Navy veteran.

00;00;29;19 - 00;00;55;15 Unknown After 23 years of service as United States Navy submariner, Scott retired and embarked on a new journey joining the Oracle Cloud Infrastructure Engineering team, where he quickly found his stride leading and building successful teams. In this episode, Scott takes us through his incredible journey from growing up in a military household to enlisting in the Navy. His path was filled with invaluable lessons, but not without facing and overcoming self-imposed barriers and not one to phrase it this way.

00;00;55;22 - 00;01;13;07 Unknown Scott humbly shares the pivotal moments that helped him evolve into a true leader and someone people actually want to follow. He opens up about how the most rewarding experiences in life cannot be rushed or faked, and he explains how he learned this lesson the hard way. Tune in for a raw and powerful conversation on leadership, relationships, and perseverance.

00;01;13;13 - 00;01;33;18 Unknown We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. Scott's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn.

00;01;33;20 - 00;01;59;08 Unknown Scott, what's going on? Good morning. Good morning to you, Chris. It's a, a beautiful Seattle Friday morning. We got drizzles up here. So, typical Seattle weather for those are up there. As we tell the visitors, it's always like this. Always raining. Don't bother coming. Don't bother, don't bother coming. Yeah. Clearly don't work for the Chamber of Commerce in the tourist.

00;01;59;10 - 00;02;26;16 Unknown That is actually my job now. Yeah. Well, good. Well, I'm glad to have you here. So, season four, episode one. We're kicking off the Oracle Maven podcast with Scott Paper, who is leading the Maven employee resource group. So the Oracle, veteran affiliated community, it's our 10th year anniversary. Did you know that? I did, thanks. Entire early to you, Chris, for, raising that to my attention.

00;02;26;23 - 00;02;56;28 Unknown Yeah, I'm a little younger at Oracle, so I wasn't here when the foundation was laid. Or, you know, when when the apple fell from the tree. You know those things? Yeah. Bunk. That and it's been a great ten years. I mean, obviously the community's been around before that, but when when Oracle was focusing on bringing people together in the communities and, you know, Veterans Day this November 11th will be ten years Maven was was born.

00;02;57;00 - 00;03;16;17 Unknown And we've gone through some iterations and I think we've made good progress on what our focus is and, and how we contribute to the company's. The employee community, you know, indirectly goes to the bottom line of lines of business inside the company. But then, you know, of course, focusing on relevance for our customers and, and all these things that are independent of each other.

00;03;16;17 - 00;03;39;01 Unknown So Scott leads Maven as the the chair, along with co-chair Maureen Peters, who we will have on soon. And we brought Scott in to kick off this season because, you know, we'd love to hear what's going on and what the future is for this year. On what Maven will contribute to and and how we'll bring people together, continue to bring people together.

00;03;39;06 - 00;04;04;01 Unknown But before we get there, Scott, let's let everybody know a little bit about you. Yeah. I appreciate you, having me on and giving me the opportunity to talk. We're real excited about fiscal year 26 and where we're going with Maven. I get the opportunity to work alongside the pretty motivated board of volunteers keeping the, military affiliated community plugged in and connected.

00;04;04;03 - 00;04;27;08 Unknown And it's been really rewarding. Right. So I have to thank you to in front of everybody, or at least audibly in front of everybody, for bringing me in. So, Chris, Chris really spurred my interest in jumping into the team. We met in person. His energy and enthusiasm kind of convinced me that maybe the community was was where I wanted to get back into.

00;04;27;08 - 00;04;50;29 Unknown So, I'm pretty passionate about it. Coming off of a, 23 year career in the United States, a and submarines got to work in, electronic warfare, electronic surveillance measures, and then, submarine communications. And that turned into, information systems. It at the end of my career, when I joined, we were still printing out and routing around pieces of paper.

00;04;51;01 - 00;05;13;15 Unknown Then they decided that the things we printed off could be connected, made networks, computer networks. And it, grew over time. Right. So we got to see the whole evolution of that. Not going to talk about how old that does make me feel when we're working on virtual computers everywhere, and nobody ever actually touches a real machine anymore.

00;05;13;18 - 00;05;33;19 Unknown So that was, that was my formative, career was 23 years in the Navy. But as anybody who spent a fair amount of time in the military, Terry knows, it's, it's a string of a bunch of mini careers. As you grow and develop a bunch of little tours of duty here and there where you have different kinds of jobs.

00;05;33;21 - 00;05;59;04 Unknown Couldn't couldn't say more about my experience, there and how it formed me, into what I am today. I'll kind of walk through some of the key points as we go, but I think, the, the idea that someone would spend 23 years in the military is, is, kind of a you get ideas about what that person might have done that for, why they would have joined in the first place.

00;05;59;06 - 00;06;20;00 Unknown And it's probably not what most people would think. When I was growing up, I was a military vet. Not vet. Sorry. Military brat. I mean, you you came out, a vet came out, born, born a Navy guy, right? I was, I've always been a sailor all my blooming life. Right. The, the reality is true, though, right?

00;06;20;00 - 00;06;38;18 Unknown I was, I was a son of a son of a sailor. My, my dad was in the Navy. My mom was in the Navy. I was adopted as my stepdad. Might as well been my real dad, though, because I never even knew it. Right. And then my biological father was a sailor, too, right? It's just it's in my blood.

00;06;38;21 - 00;07;03;06 Unknown Until I was raised, I never lived outside of and maybe or military town in my life. Ever. And, we moved around a lot when I was younger. And then we settled in Connecticut. And I think there was just the foregone conclusion that that was the path. That was the way, you know, my parents raised me knowing I was going into the Navy is never my thought process.

00;07;03;06 - 00;07;23;01 Unknown I was just enjoying life, being a kid, playing outside stickball and mountain biking and playing basketball on the on the outside of the school, you know, but, I didn't really think about it. And then my dad's like, yeah, you're going to go to the Naval Academy. I was like, well, I mean, that's cool. How do you do that?

00;07;23;08 - 00;07;46;11 Unknown Right? Well, first off, foremost, you got to actually study, show up, do homework, go to school. Those were all things that weren't really at the top of my list in high school. Not even on the list. A lot of times. Right. So I was, was smart, but not motivated and, and not really focused, when I was in high school.

00;07;46;14 - 00;08;11;18 Unknown So I ended up barely passing. I was already signed up for the Navy, ready to go off to do the deployed entry program. And recruiter, my recruiter gets a call from me like, hey, man, I'm. I'm not going to graduate on time. And he's like, hey, yeah. That's a that's an emergency. Right. So more from my recruiter coming in, setting up a class with the high school, pulling in a bunch of other kids that had failed.

00;08;11;18 - 00;08;34;04 Unknown It was, was chemistry that did me in. Right? I took chemistry three times, and then finally I got the the, the Idiot's Guide to Chemistry version of chemistry. And I was like, okay, I can I can sleep my way through this, I guess. So I did that in summer school when everybody else was enjoying the summer and then off to boot camp.

00;08;34;06 - 00;08;51;13 Unknown Thank God, because I would not have been able to find another job other than dairy Queen. If it were that. Not the dairy Queen was a bad job. No shade. I enjoyed my time there. Let's talk about the the shakes. The dairy Queen shakes for man. Yeah, the the blizzards where you can turn them upside down.

00;08;51;13 - 00;09;17;06 Unknown You know, I actually really enjoyed working there, but, the the reality is I needed a change, and I wanted to get as far away from my hometown as possible. Was there anything personal? It's not like I had a bad relationship with my parents. I just didn't have a great plan for what I wanted to do there in Groton, Connecticut is kind of like there is really nothing there except Marines except submarines and the military industrial complex.

00;09;17;06 - 00;09;38;15 Unknown Right. There's there's Dow or Pfizer or there's a bunch of other like, plants. There's a casino, and then there's the world's largest service. Right. And that's it. Right. Like that's that's what's there. And I, I didn't want to spend my life in that place. So like, at the time, I was getting introduced to a bunch of, you know, new kinds of music.

00;09;38;15 - 00;10;05;04 Unknown I grew up when I was younger, only interested in hip hop, and I discovered that there were other genres of music in my senior year. So I found Jimi Hendrix, found grunge rock, and found Seattle. Right. So then I'm in school, ironically, graduate boot camp go back to my hometown for a year while I'm in school getting trained because that's where all of the submarine rates get trained is my hometown.

00;10;05;06 - 00;10;20;20 Unknown Spent a year there wanting to get the heck out. And finally, the first chance I got, I was like, I want to go to Seattle because that's where all the rock and roll and mountains are right? I was an avid mountain biker. I always wanted to snowboard. And, and I got out here and I fell in love with it.

00;10;20;21 - 00;10;42;23 Unknown It was like the first time I'd ever seen a real mountain with snow in the summertime. You could see them from base. I think it was, like, superimposed. And it blew my mind. Right. So I spent another year waiting to get on the boat. In school. So a big part of what makes me who I am is what I experience in between my classes.

00;10;42;23 - 00;11;04;15 Unknown Right. It was it was interesting because I was raised to have this really strong work ethic and be super committed to whatever I was doing at the time. I wasn't necessarily motivated to go hunt down opportunities, but if you gave me work to do, I was going to go do that work. I like hard work. I mean, it could be just picking heavy stuff up and moving it and then putting it down.

00;11;04;15 - 00;11;26;21 Unknown It could be whatever, right? Chip and paint and painting. I didn't care, right? I got something to do. Worthy task. If I could see a good outcome, I would attack it. And instead they gave us the most menial dumb stuff to do in between. And then it was like these, these middle grade leaders that kind of washed out and ended up just watching over the waiting to go to school.

00;11;26;24 - 00;11;45;06 Unknown And so there were times they had us moving furniture from one side of a building to the other, and then the next day we'd come and move it back where it was the day before. I thought that was the worst. It was going to be, because that was in a condemned building. Right. Well, I get out to Seattle, I go, and they put us in a subbasement.

00;11;45;10 - 00;12;09;08 Unknown Right. There's this little tiny storage closet that somebody thought would be good to convert into an office. And that's where we sat in a bunch of broken furniture, waiting for random tasks and to go sweep the building that already had janitors, like, three times a day. So it was like it was not what I signed up for, to say the least.

00;12;09;08 - 00;12;41;11 Unknown Right? I'm like, almost two years in, I've yet to really step foot on an operational submarine. I did a little brief stint in Groton where I was down on the USS Springfield. They have these vertical launch tubes, and they put it in drydock, send us down or wait in school. And that was actually a lot of fun for me because it was my job to take this pneumatic, what they call a needle gun, which fires off these little needles to chip away the epoxy paint and repaint it.

00;12;41;13 - 00;13;04;05 Unknown I put my Walkman in with, auto reverse, punk rock and grunge music every day, all day. And just went to town. Right. I'm in the superstructure of this thing. Needle gun and, missile tubes and just having a blast, right? I mean, a lot of people would be like, that sounds terrible, but it was like Zen for me, and I was, like, plugged in.

00;13;04;05 - 00;13;25;22 Unknown I was like, good to go. I got my tunes, I got my hard work. Something's going to look good when I'm done. I don't really care. I don't need much. So then, you know, I was I was happy with that. I go to this other place and it's once again like, nope, this sucks. So then I stepped foot on the ship with this, I mean, I, I spent my youth with pretty good chip on my shoulder, right?

00;13;25;22 - 00;13;49;05 Unknown I didn't I didn't really care. You know, I was a punk. I was a smart ass. And I was really a pain, right? To anybody that could have to be in charge of me because I always knew better. Right? I outwork you, right? And I was smart enough to get away with whatever I was being a punk about, but I wasn't smart enough to get out of my own way and just stop talking.

00;13;49;07 - 00;14;14;04 Unknown So, I stepped foot on the ship thinking that I would just be that bulldozer punk that got away with everything, and immediately everything changed. I met my first chief. JP Barnes was, the epitome of, like, the coolest dude you ever met. So, like, you, you pulled a dude right at a Top Gun and dropped him on a submarine, and he was in charge of me, right?

00;14;14;06 - 00;14;33;21 Unknown He was a rock and roll drummer. He was crazy, but super fun and really smart, and just cared about doing a really good job and being the best. And so we spent the next four years on my first ship doing all of that. Right? I fell in love with the ship. I fell in love with the mission.

00;14;33;21 - 00;14;53;11 Unknown I fell in love with the crew. And most importantly, I fell in love with being good at something and actually learning and working hard to get better at it. Right? I I'd never been academic before that, never had a reason to I didn't care, right? Well, he challenged me, right. He gave me the responsibility and opportunity to grow into it.

00;14;53;11 - 00;15;13;12 Unknown And and he did that with the whole division, right? Our whole crew, at one time, I think when we were at our biggest point, we had 11 people, right? He was responsible for 11 people. And I'd say over half of those guys all went on to be senior enlisted leaders or a duty officer converts. Right? They all all went off to be super successful.

00;15;13;12 - 00;15;34;08 Unknown Right. And I was like, okay, I'm going to I'm going to go boo everywhere I go, right? I'm just going to channel that. And so I took it and I ran with it and a lot of early success. Right. Because if you work hard, that's like 90% of the equation. But 10% is probably the hardest part to get right.

00;15;34;11 - 00;15;56;21 Unknown And that was all my my attitude. Right. So then I get to this mid-career point, you know, and and that was that was a pretty big switch for me, but I should I should clarify, I skipped over a big chunk. So another piece of me read, I move out to Seattle, I get this great opportunity to work with a great division.

00;15;56;23 - 00;16;16;17 Unknown And it wasn't like right away I started getting stuff right. I mean, I was still heading for disaster, with my attitude. And, I was out with my friend. He was dating this girl. She had a friend. They came over and I met my wife, my best friend to this day. Introduce me to my wife, Melissa.

00;16;16;20 - 00;16;36;10 Unknown She came over to his house just impromptu, and we kind of just never stopped hanging out after that. And then the rest was just kind of history. We just. We hit it off as friends, hit it off as, boyfriend girlfriend, hit it off as husband and wife. And I'm not going to say that, you know, everything was just smooth sailing.

00;16;36;10 - 00;16;54;20 Unknown We were a military family, right? It was. There were tough times, but it's just always been good to be with someone who is my my best friend, you know, every day. And you might not get along with your best friend every day, but they're always going to be the person that gets you the best. And so I lucked into that.

00;16;54;22 - 00;17;09;25 Unknown And so we were both very young, and neither one of us were of drinking age yet. So we, we just kind of jumped into that and went all in. Neither one of us was even looking to start dating. Right? It just kind of happened. I was actually kind of done like, yeah, I don't I don't need drama in my life.

00;17;09;25 - 00;17;29;02 Unknown I don't need that extra stuff. And then I met her and I was like, well, maybe, maybe I kind of do. Right. So then, you know, signed on for, you know, what was probably the best mission of my life, which was getting together with her. And right in that time, you know, we were both going to community college at Olympia Community College.

00;17;29;05 - 00;17;51;25 Unknown And I had never been a strong student. She was kind of not taking it super seriously. And together, we just kind of found how to focus and be good at it. And we just from there was like, we were super students, right? I like, you know, I graduated Olympia College with at 3.98. I graduated high school with I don't even know if they measure GPAs, GPAs as low as my GPA was.

00;17;51;25 - 00;18;12;25 Unknown Right. I couldn't even tell you. And that was all like a natural confluence of events, right? I had a supportive crew at work. I had a supportive wife who was motivated and smart and dedicated, and it changed everything for me. Right? It took it from I'm just a punk kid who wants to go be a lefty up at the, ski resort.

00;18;12;28 - 00;18;45;09 Unknown That's my like and dream to like, hey, maybe I can go be, you know, a professional doing something technical and being good at it. And it just changed everything for me. So having a supportive chief at work and a team that was awesome. And then also having a wife who just like, Holy crap, I got so lucky. Like she just showed up and dude, I just I wish everybody could find somebody like that to be in their life because she is like the cornerstone, maybe the keystone of my whole thing.

00;18;45;09 - 00;19;04;10 Unknown Right? Like she keeps everything in line. And it's always been good to have somebody in my corner like that. So back to the ship. So we're on a ship. I'm trying to decide what to do with my life. I'm still I still got the chip on my shoulder. I'm still convinced that I don't need this organization. It is the Navy, right?

00;19;04;10 - 00;19;23;05 Unknown I'm just like, yeah, I'm here, but I'm only doing one tour. Guys. Like, I'm going to get exactly what I want out of you, and then I'm gone, right? I'm not staying. It comes down my final days of my first enlistment. We're getting underway. I'm the. I'm the rescue swimmer on the ship. And I had been really belligerent.

00;19;23;05 - 00;19;40;28 Unknown Right. They weren't coughing up these orders that I wanted to to agree to re-enlist. And the detailer, who is the guy who assigns you your next set of orders, had had enough of me, right? He was like, I am not. You're not getting what you want. This is where we need you. And I was like, well, then I'm gone, right?

00;19;41;00 - 00;20;07;26 Unknown I have a plan, right? I would have been I would have been, up the creek if I had, like, actually gotten to go through with my plan of just tossing them in the air as I ran off the brow of the ship. It would have been a bad day. I would have had no job. So fortunately, the day we're going up to see the career counselor comes up with my orders, he goes, Will you re-enlist now, please?

00;20;07;29 - 00;20;24;14 Unknown And so I get my orders in hand and I'm like, yeah, I'll re-enlist. And he goes, did you still want to do it in the bridge, the bridges, the hole and the top of the sale of a submarine? I was like, yeah, I want the captain to re-enlist me, and I want to do it in the bridge while we're going through the Hood Canal bridge, which is a floating bridge.

00;20;24;16 - 00;20;44;13 Unknown They were like, goodness gracious, like you. You couldn't make anything harder if you tried, right? And I was like, well, I'm going to get what I want. So I'm giving you more of my life, right? So, we go up there and I kind of just that, that happenstance, it's like this theme I just got. I just keep getting lucky, right?

00;20;44;16 - 00;21;06;23 Unknown People say it's not luck. You worked hard. No, there's a fair amount of luck, right? Timing and luck are important in everybody's life. And, what is it they say opportunity is, when preparation meets opportunity. When preparation meets opportunity, right? If you're not prepared for it, when the opportunity shows up, you're not going to be ready. Right?

00;21;06;23 - 00;21;34;09 Unknown So I had worked hard to get to that point and be ready to succeed in that next phase. Right. And got lucky and the door opened and I was able to leverage the next opportunities. Right. So it kind of kept going through my career. I had really good success. As a junior guy, I was I was running circles around folks, you know, and, and I knew it right in my in my heart, I knew I was good at what I was doing.

00;21;34;09 - 00;21;49;23 Unknown Right. It was, hey, if you work hard, if you study, you get good at what you're doing. It kind of builds that ego that I never had. Right? I had confidence that I never had when I was growing up, and it was new to me. I didn't know what to do with it. So then that started pumping my head up a lot.

00;21;49;25 - 00;22;08;07 Unknown Right? And I, you know, did what I always did. I had a chip on my shoulder and now I got something to justify the chip on my shoulder. Right. Some men around, you know, kind of being a bulldozer. Right? I just kind of don't take no for an answer. Do whatever I want. I'm all about my team winning, and they did right places I would go.

00;22;08;07 - 00;22;36;21 Unknown I would go to a team that was struggling. We'd work our butts off together. We'd end up being the best on the waterfront or whatever. And, you know, again, I had great raw materials. Right? I show up, I get given a tough job, I volunteer to go take a tough job, and I find out that, you know what was painted as a terrible opportunity ends up being like a golden opportunity, because there's all these great people just waiting to be moved to the right place and and guided to something better.

00;22;36;21 - 00;22;54;07 Unknown So my initial approach was small teams was easy, right? I knew the task, I knew the job, and I was able to work with that team to be successful. Right. But they were all we could smart already. I didn't have to do anything hard. I just had to, like, get them out of their own way, make them work together.

00;22;54;09 - 00;23;16;07 Unknown Right. Which was really just show up and be alongside them and work hard with them. Right. And then they were good. And that elevated me, I elevated them. It worked great. Until I got put in charge of other leaders, right when I got put in charge of other leaders and had to distribute responsibility, and somehow suddenly, my way wasn't the only way.

00;23;16;09 - 00;23;37;04 Unknown It was a real challenge for me. I hit this point in my career where hard work wasn't going to be the only thing that get you there, right? You got to learn some new skills in this angry youth. So he's carrying around on my back. That was old me was just making all kinds of problems for me, right?

00;23;37;04 - 00;23;57;16 Unknown I mean, I was still being successful, but I was alienating everyone around. It was just a it was a hot mess. And, and I wasn't really popular, right? I didn't I didn't win because I was doing good for the team. I won because that's all I cared about. Right. And, and at the detriment of those around me too.

00;23;57;16 - 00;24;18;28 Unknown Right. So I think I probably did a fair amount of knocking people over, as we pushed our way through to success. Right. Well, guess what, dude? Like, there's more than just your division that makes a submarine crew successful, right? There's multiple divisions. Everybody needs to win for you to win. Because if the ship loses, you lose. Right?

00;24;19;00 - 00;24;40;06 Unknown And I was like, no, no, that's fine. But I mean, we're going to win them, right? That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to be the best. And it took quite a few kicks in the teeth to to really understand that, you know, I'm going to have to evolve and, and that didn't come right away to me because I kept like, happenstance kept happening, I kept getting promoted.

00;24;40;06 - 00;25;05;27 Unknown And I was like, well, you were wrong. I don't have to evolve. Right. And, it was, it was interesting because the military facilitates that, where if you work hard, you're probably and you're even competent, partially. Right. You're probably going to get promoted over time because, well, you stayed and you don't entirely suck and you're willing to work hard.

00;25;06;01 - 00;25;29;12 Unknown Okay. We can work with that. You get given a larger amount of responsibility, like a department, and suddenly you got to distribute that stuff. And and your message just isn't landing because you're not out there doing the work of people, and you don't understand the technical pieces of the other divisions. Right? So if I've got a navigation division and a sonar division and another division, all over there, I'm responsible for helping them be successful.

00;25;29;12 - 00;25;50;02 Unknown I understand how they do that stuff. How am I going to go in and tell that guy how to make his division successful? Right. Maybe he knows better than I do. I couldn't accept that. And so I fought my way in to a couple of opportunities. One was there's a senior enlisted job. On submarines called the chief of the boat.

00;25;50;05 - 00;26;13;17 Unknown And, at this point, I was a senior chief, and I was at 12 years in the military, which is pretty fast, right? I don't think anybody really expected that, and, the least of all me, right? I was like, oh, wow. That's that's sudden and new. So then it was just reaffirming that everything I was doing was right.

00;26;13;20 - 00;26;32;21 Unknown So then I go, and I get this job, and, I start I was on shore duty and instructor duty job, and, you know, I'm taking for granted that my next gig is going to go be the senior enlisted leader of a submarine. Right? I'm like a baby in this grand scheme of things, right? Like the.

00;26;32;28 - 00;26;58;08 Unknown So you. When did you go into the Navy? How old were you? I was 18, so you're 30. You're an e a 30 year old e? Yes. Got it. Just emphasizing you're a baby. Yeah, but at the time, no 30 year old thinks they're a baby, right? Like, not at 30. You're like, oh, man, I'm old now. Like, I'm the old guy in the room, right?

00;26;58;08 - 00;27;18;00 Unknown Yep. And then you walk into a room of old guys who are all seasoned and salty. They've been doing it since, you know, the Noah's Ark, right? They cast off lines back there two by two, and then, and then they get the ship underway. Right. Those guys are the guys I'm with now, right? And I'm like, oh yeah, man, I'm going to start throwing my weight around.

00;27;18;00 - 00;27;34;28 Unknown I'm the new young guy who's going to teach you guys all how to do the right thing. Like sit down, kid. Right. And so I show up and I'm like, not to be pushed into the corner, like, okay, it's my turn, you guys. You've aged out. Time to get off the bus. I'm in. Put me in, coach.

00;27;34;28 - 00;27;55;25 Unknown I'm ready to go. And, and I keep trying to politely tell me over and over again like, hey, go get good at what you're supposed to be doing right now. There we we literally just promoted you. The you are super young. Haven't had any minutes in that role yet. So like don't be in a rush. Go get good at what you're doing.

00;27;55;28 - 00;28;13;24 Unknown And as like, I'm good at what I'm doing. Trust me, I know. Right? Because this is the theme, right? I always knew, I always knew I was doing the right thing and then you couldn't tell me different. So then, I go, and I have this board with a crew of people that are all mentors to me throughout the time.

00;28;13;27 - 00;28;41;08 Unknown And, and they interview me. I sit in there and it's a board of all other chiefs of the boats. And Cmmc is like command master chiefs. So only 80 nines, right? They're all interviewing me for this thing. And I had gone nuts. I studied every book you could get on how to do this. And I brought, like, this binder of I had written up like, procedures for how I was going to do everything, every facet of the job.

00;28;41;10 - 00;29;01;18 Unknown Right. And, and, and an old friend of mine, who's now one of my longtime mentors, Eric Antoine, looks and he goes, well, this guy's really smart. Look at him. He's so smart, right? He's reading the book and I'm thinking, like, I've got this very different shade, and I haven't started yet. And he didn't know me from anybody.

00;29;01;22 - 00;29;27;01 Unknown Right? He had he had done three tours as a chief of the boat. That does not happen, right? Nobody puts themselves through that. And he goes and does it three different times. So I was worried already. Right. And, and they send me off like I do my interview. It's it's pretty rough. It's weird. It's uncomfortable. It's the first time I've ever, like, not felt like I had the answers to everything.

00;29;27;03 - 00;29;45;24 Unknown And I'm a little sweating it, right? They had me sitting outside, they debated or whatever. So they bring me back in, and, and they look at me and they're like, yeah. So you pass your board and I'm like, why does that feel like a pregnant pause after that? And then why would you have to emphasize that I pass my board?

00;29;45;24 - 00;30;11;17 Unknown Why is it not congratulate you? However, we're not going to make you a cop right now. Like so. Wait, I passed, but I'm not ready. And so I could not could not process the depth of this failure at that moment. Right? I'm thinking like, okay, so I worked my butt off, I studied, I've got all of the I'm like, the number one guy here and there, and I'm doing all these great things.

00;30;11;17 - 00;30;34;26 Unknown And how am I not the guy? So then, you know, I go home and my wife, knowing who I am and knowing how things have gone, she has assumed already that it's a foregone conclusion. Right. So she's got a steak dinner, she's got a cake all done and ready to go, like we're going to celebrate. And I show up and I'm like, yeah, I didn't, I didn't make it.

00;30;34;29 - 00;31;04;09 Unknown Look, I'm not I'm not going to be the guy. And she's like, well, are you hungry? At the time, I'm just like numb, right? And I was like, yeah, I could eat, but, so, so that was like a pivot point in my life, right? Like I got thrown sideways pretty hard. And, and the lesson there wasn't ready to be received as like, well, okay, so I walk away.

00;31;04;11 - 00;31;22;05 Unknown I'm gonna. Well, forget these guys. They don't want me. I'm gonna go be an LDO limited duty officer. Right? If they if the senior enlisted ranks don't see who I am, I'm only going to be a limited duty officer. And I'm going to get commissioned, and I'm going to go lead that way. Right? Maybe I'm just not meant for this crowd.

00;31;22;08 - 00;31;42;24 Unknown So then I spend, like, nine months under the tutelage of a limited duty officer who's my department head. You know, we work right alongside each other. I'm the department chief at the time, and he's kind of mentoring me. I put it together, all this things again. I'm, like, completely convinced that there's no outcome other than scout pay for wins this thing.

00;31;42;26 - 00;32;12;14 Unknown Right? I'm going to get this thing and, I submit my paperwork. I put it all in, and, you know, the results come out and I'm not on the list. I'm not even a second choice. I'm not anywhere remotely close. Right. Until that point, I had never been on another type of submarine. Right. So in the military, especially in the Navy, if you get into senior enlisted or officer ranks, they're expecting you to have different kinds of platforms.

00;32;12;17 - 00;32;39;04 Unknown So you have a wide variety of experience. I had only ever been on deterrent submarines by that point. So SBS and that's a very specific kind of mission, which is only one kind of mission. Well, the fast attack class submarines, right? They do a bunch of other kinds of missions. I not had any experience in any of those things, which is where they send all limit to duty officer communications officers.

00;32;39;04 - 00;33;02;04 Unknown Right. Like that's what I was qualified to go do if I got picked. I was actually completely unqualified at the time to go do it because I had no other experience. I did not cross that. I thought, well, I'm super good at this other thing, so it outweighs the lack of experience. So, you'll see that lack of experience is actually a key driving thing.

00;33;02;04 - 00;33;26;13 Unknown And how I fell off the cart here. So I'm young, I'm ahead of my time, but I'm actually way behind in this experience gathering things. So then I'm like, well, I'm going to go get experience, right? Like, like I'm going to work my way into getting experience faster, right? This is my like my knuckle dragging worker brain is just like, I'm going to go get it faster than everybody else.

00;33;26;16 - 00;33;50;18 Unknown I mean, that's fundamentally you can't just you can't get experience faster than you get it. It's just it comes and you have it. So then, opportunity to go to a fast attack pops up. There's a USS Jimmy Carter. It's a special mission submarine that goes out there and does undersea research, development and testing. And I was like, oh, that sounds super cool.

00;33;50;21 - 00;34;07;10 Unknown And one of the guys that was on my board for Cobb is the chief for the boat there. And I'm like, and that guy is the guy to go learn from. And they said, you know what? Yeah, you're right. That's the guy you should go learn from. And so I was like, all right, I'm in. Send me.

00;34;07;12 - 00;34;28;11 Unknown And they sent me. And boy, did I learn a lot about how little I knew the entire time. Right. It was kind of like back to grade school because here I'm like this thoroughbred over here, like, thinking that I'm running circles around everybody. Well, that place is like a triple screening place, right? You got a it's a special mission set.

00;34;28;14 - 00;34;49;24 Unknown They don't bring in anybody. That's not the number one in their graduating class from a rating. They don't bring in anybody. Everybody has a top secret clearance. Even the mechanics. Right. Everybody on that ship is a beautiful and unique snowflake in their own way. In a good way. In all the best ways. Right? They're all smart, they're all capable, and they're all running circles around everybody.

00;34;49;24 - 00;35;12;21 Unknown Right. So this den of alpha competitors, and I'm like one finally my people. Right. Let's go run circles around the world literally did that. But also, it was it was weird to not be the obvious number one all of a sudden. And now I'm showing up and I'm just like an extra dude. Like, they already had a full complement.

00;35;12;21 - 00;35;27;01 Unknown They did not need me. So then I showed up and I'm this extra guy. I'm the chief of the boats, Pat. Right. Like going and running and doing all this stuff. Well, I'm getting trained in there, like get a load of this guy, right? He doesn't even have a reason to be here. He's just here sucking up our good air.

00;35;27;03 - 00;35;47;29 Unknown Right. And, it took the entirety of my time. There was only on that ship one year to get even a portion of the crew to, like, say, okay, well, this guy doesn't entirely suck, right? Because I had worked my way into those jobs. I just kind of showed up, and I was like, being, mentored. So I left there.

00;35;48;02 - 00;36;08;27 Unknown Yeah, I got to tell a story. So I show up to that ship, and I'm talking about experience. So this is. This is how far off my perception of what my skill set really was from reality. So I go there, and the full measure of a enlisted submariner is whether or not you're qualified, you're senior in rate, job.

00;36;09;00 - 00;36;35;05 Unknown Right. So for nuclear, for, trained folks in the engineering team as engineering watch supervisor, the senior guy, in the engine room for the forward folks that non-nuclear trained folks, it's, it's diving officer to watch. Right. So you're in charge of reaching, maintaining order depth and driving the submarine. You have a team of guys down there moving the yokes, and you're telling them very directly what to do.

00;36;35;07 - 00;36;55;06 Unknown Why don't have a lot of experience doing that. Right. And I'm on the most complex submarine that's ever been built, which operates very, very strangely. Right. It has some very strange handling techniques, and it's much more complicated than what I learned on my previous ship. So I sit in the chair and they're immediately like, this guy does not have a clue, right?

00;36;55;06 - 00;37;18;00 Unknown Like, no idea what we're doing. And I again go back to my academic setups. I'm studying everything. I'm working hard. I've got my book, I'm doing the equations right. So, and a submarine buoyancy is something you have to manage. So you move water around the ship to determine how it's going to sit in the ocean so that you do what's called neutral buoyancy.

00;37;18;00 - 00;37;41;12 Unknown So you're under the ocean, but you have to stay at a depth. So then it's a complex math problem because it takes into account depth. It takes into account temperature, takes into account salinity of the water you're in. And those things are all variables that are always shifting. And, I had not really had a lot of experience running all that stuff.

00;37;41;12 - 00;38;01;27 Unknown So I was like, in this calculation mindset, this little book. Right. And I would do all these calculations and Eric and my buddy, comes in and he had been driving submarines since before I was born. You know, I think he was, already a master chief when Jimmy Carter was still president. I'm not really sure.

00;38;01;29 - 00;38;23;08 Unknown Probably fact check that, but he, he comes in the room and he looks at me, and he's he's always, always crawling up my back, really frustrated with me because I'm struggling to grasp it right now. Finally, he reaches down and he says, what are you doing? Because I'm struggling to maintain doing the basic thing like maintaining depth.

00;38;23;08 - 00;38;56;10 Unknown I'm like trying to wear it. Periscope depth. I'm trying to keep the ship from like, accidentally surfacing. And I'm not doing a great job. And he looks at me and he grabs the notebook out of my hand that I live by any flings it across the control room and he goes, just look what's happening. And I looked at it and I go, oh, it was like, well, if you're doing this or you're doing this right, it tells you what the ship is doing, whether you've got too much weight on or not enough weight on you guys stop doing math and try to figure out what is actually happening around you.

00;38;56;10 - 00;39;17;02 Unknown You have to like, look up. And from experience, he could walk in the room and know immediately what changes you needed to do, right? He knew. He knew how much weight needed to go where because he had done it so many times. Right. And, and that experience was not something you could study your way into or buy your way into, right?

00;39;17;05 - 00;39;40;03 Unknown You couldn't just work hard, you had to see it. And that was the first time I had to, like, really step back and like, oh, oh. Conceptually, I didn't understand what was happening. I had read all the books. I don't understand the math behind it, but it's the difference between an engineer and an operator, right? Like the guy that makes a bullet doesn't really know what it's like to be out there firing it.

00;39;40;08 - 00;40;00;12 Unknown Right? So that was my, like, culminating event. Like, oh, hey, you just flipped it around on you. And the same thing was true with my leadership style. So it directly overlaid with all the other lessons I was learning. I was like, hey, you're alienating everybody around you, and you don't understand why fundamentally, because you're working for yourself, right?

00;40;00;14 - 00;40;21;04 Unknown You're working for yourself. You care only about yourself, and what you're delivering is all about you, right? You're sitting in that seat and you're looking at this book thinking you're the guy making a difference. I'm just doing math. I'm not driving anything. The dude's in front of me. You're driving stuff, right? They're all qualified to sit there, right?

00;40;21;04 - 00;40;55;15 Unknown I just had to sit back and look and spot check. But I'm over here thinking I'm going to cure cancer right? That's not the case, right? You're part of a team. And so that all flipped everything around for me and really taught me a big lesson, right? He also introduced me the concept of servant leadership. Right. Servant leadership is a, is a pretty incredible and powerful thing that is thrown around a lot because it's one of those key words and tricky phrases, but the true embodiment of it is you just show up and it's not ever about you anymore, right?

00;40;55;15 - 00;41;17;22 Unknown In every facet of everything you do in leadership and in how you live your life, you just work for those around you because you're part of a community, right? So that got me finally over the fence and into the yard I wanted to be in. Right. I got my senior enlisted leadership job, as that. I wanted finally.

00;41;17;22 - 00;41;46;02 Unknown And I'm like, okay, I'm just going to, you know, I, I made a mistake. I went and I photocopied that exact experience and leadership style and I tried to overlay it on an entirely different organization. When I finally got to my job, I was the chief of the bow of the Henry, Jackson, which is another SBN. I, I showed up, they were like two weeks from getting ready to go out to see they'd already done all their training cycles and everything.

00;41;46;02 - 00;42;08;20 Unknown They built their teams. And I'm just like this new guy showing up, right? And, same thing. Captain, it was the new captain. John Moretti was my captain on that ship. Really awesome guys up prior enlisted, retired full bird captain. Now, but he and I had never been to sea with this crew together or apart, right?

00;42;08;20 - 00;42;27;14 Unknown Like, we were both new in the roles. And then we had to get this ship out to sea. And so I showed up in the whole chief's quarters, which is what they call all the senior enlisted guys on the ship was chiefs. And the chief's quarters is where we all live, right? It's the chief's room, but it's also the collective, right?

00;42;27;16 - 00;42;51;01 Unknown Your leadership team is called your chief's quarters. So I show up, and I'm, like, in a position where I have to actually earn their trust in a very short amount of time, and instead I show up knowing that I know how to make them better. And I take this model from this alpha team that I just came from, and I immediately slap it on them like a label and say, here's how we're going to be the best.

00;42;51;04 - 00;43;08;08 Unknown Like, these dudes are all ready to go to sea, which means that they've already proven to everybody that they're ready to go do that. And the very first thing I do is go tell them, yeah, that's great, but we're going to do it my way, right? I forgot everything that I had just finished learning because I had checked that box.

00;43;08;10 - 00;43;36;05 Unknown Right. So, it's about halfway through, one of the chiefs says to me, you know, because I had shown some emotion about something, I was empathetic to something that was going on with him. And he's like, man, that's like the first time I've ever seen you, like, care about somebody in a non-working way. And, and I was all this time, I'm like, I'm a servant leader.

00;43;36;07 - 00;43;57;24 Unknown I'm leading for the team. But in actuality, I'm just a guy who is following my plan, thinking that everybody gets that. It's because I'm trying to be a servant leader. Well, yeah, it's one thing to carry the book around with you. It's another thing to actually embody it. And I wasn't embodying it. So, because he told me that flat out to my face.

00;43;57;24 - 00;44;21;23 Unknown That's what it took to penetrate my dome. And actually bring me to where I was missing the mark. And so from that point on, I realized, okay, so leadership is not going to be from a book, but you can get stuff from a book. So then I went back to books, started reading about what I was missing, which is clearly engaging with human beings.

00;44;21;26 - 00;44;39;10 Unknown Okay, so I had this leadership framework that would work, and it's a communication problem now. Nobody gets what I'm trying to tell them we needed to do or why we would need to do it, because they didn't take any time whatsoever to actually spend time to learn who these people were. Right? And I didn't do that. I was all business.

00;44;39;16 - 00;45;04;26 Unknown Always had been, always would be. And so. I took the time to learn how to talk to people, to learn how to learn about people through engagement. I read How to Win Friends and Influence People, which is a little bit of an outdated book. There's some stuff in there that probably isn't appropriate for the times, but the general concepts of taking every person you meet, right?

00;45;04;28 - 00;45;24;24 Unknown No matter where they're at in the hierarchy and treating them like an important piece of the the collective right and engaging with them on a personal basis. Those were all things that, you know, were like mind blowing to me. Like most people get that at some point in their life. And I just and wrap my mind around it.

00;45;24;26 - 00;45;49;18 Unknown And then, I read a book by Simon Sinek called start with Y. Right. And it was all about conveying why you're doing something. So between those two things, several other key books, the, the servant leadership style that I was taught, things started to come together for me and then, like, really built my framework for how I engage with the world.

00;45;49;20 - 00;46;19;19 Unknown So then understanding that I'm a product of all of those failures. Right. That then led me to growing and maturing and success. Right. Those are things that, they were they put me in a place where I wanted to actually take time to learn and engage with people. Right. I had learned it's not all about me, and I had learned it's all about the team and about the people around you.

00;46;19;19 - 00;46;37;05 Unknown I had learned that you have to take time to get to know people and invest in them. For them to want to invest back and and then so finally things started to take off me. And I say this because that's like towards the end of my career, right where we're at like 17, 18 years, I ended up doing 23.

00;46;37;05 - 00;47;01;12 Unknown So I'm finishing up my chief in the boat tour, you know, already have made a kind of a mess of things by being a once again, back to bulldozer mode and on my way out of the military, I really got it right. I really understood, like, you know what? It doesn't really matter what my title or position is if I'm not bringing value to the people around me right then it doesn't doesn't matter, right?

00;47;01;12 - 00;47;21;26 Unknown If I'm not helping uplift the weakest person in the team, instead of grinding them to a pulp and waiting for them to fail out and get out of the way right then, then it's not. It's not how you build a quality organization. Right? And then so finally, I, retired from the military because I've just kind of felt like, hey, it's time to go, right?

00;47;21;26 - 00;47;48;29 Unknown I mean, I'm, I'm starting to get a little churned up. I need to go commit with my family and spend some time with them. And, and after a very brief time and, and Department of Defense acquisitions program, where I had a chance to recoup figure out who I was as a person, not just a sailor. Then I got, old friend of mine, Devin Saturday, who's now back.

00;47;49;06 - 00;48;14;15 Unknown The Oracle recruited me into the team. He was the young man who pinned my master chief anchors on me when I was at sea. And then he recruited me into the job. So, it changed everything for me. Coming to Oracle. Really? It proved to me that all of the things that I had learned, right, made me qualified to come into a really wildly different place and still be successful.

00;48;14;17 - 00;48;41;13 Unknown Right. So all those things in the military that were like, not tangible, right? None of those things that I just talked about, really, the big lessons were being very smart, very technical. I didn't talk about development. I didn't talk about tearing apart radio equipment, antennas or any of that stuff, which we did. But those weren't like the formative things, formative things with the people and the engagement and the philosophical things that I got out of my military time.

00;48;41;16 - 00;49;06;02 Unknown So when I showed up at Oracle, bringing that with me and some technical background, like it just felt like home, and I'm able to navigate this place with, you know, where I would say relative success. So coming from the military into an individual contributor role as a reliability engineer with, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure was great at two years of that.

00;49;06;05 - 00;49;29;02 Unknown And then all of this history in my brain was building up. And first opportunity I had, I jumped into a manager role. And it's just been a natural fit since, full circle now, right? Why am I in Maven? Why do I care about being the chair of Maven? It's a volunteer thing. And don't I have enough time eaten up by my day job?

00;49;29;02 - 00;49;54;03 Unknown The answer's no. Why? Because you can't be a servant leader if you're not actually embodying the work. And so I got a lot out of my veteran time in the military. Taught me a lot. And there are a lot of veterans out there that, you know, they bring that value in with them, too. Right. And what I was missing, because I joined Oracle during Covid, was that sense of community.

00;49;54;05 - 00;50;15;07 Unknown It was an empty building when we showed up right. Nobody was coming to work. Downtown Seattle was a ghost town. I was flying back and forth cross-country on an empty plane. And so I was missing people engagement. And so meeting you, Chris, getting to know the team and and Maven, I was like, man, this is this is cool.

00;50;15;07 - 00;50;40;22 Unknown These people understand that that background that nuanced history that you bring from different branches. And we're just kind of we're able to just lock in and and just get it right away. We can probably say like five sentences to somebody and we're like, yep, I get it. I know where you're coming from. I understand your perspective. And it just it filled that, that last piece to be really satisfied every day.

00;50;40;24 - 00;51;06;25 Unknown And and from there I was hooked. And so all about all of that long, long story, right, is all about. Hey, you know, I'm a senior manager in a massive billion dollar company. Things must be awesome. And you must be the best at what you do to be able to land that job. And the answer is now tons of learning, tons of mistakes, tons of wrong turns and bad decisions.

00;51;06;28 - 00;51;28;11 Unknown Are informed how to get there, right? And and there's no straight path. And so now I just I make it my point to help people see that in themselves. Right. In our board as employees in Oracle, helping them navigate their careers within our company and then veterans, separating and joining the company or looking for other jobs. Right.

00;51;28;13 - 00;52;03;07 Unknown So the the inReach and outreach that Maven brings to us, is is very, very fulfilling and satisfying, right? It's it's that piece of the puzzle that makes this less just a job and more something I really care about. So that is that is the full story about me. Pretty lengthy, I know. But, it I feel like if I don't give credit to all the other stumbles, then, you know, get a you get a fake picture, right?

00;52;03;07 - 00;52;28;19 Unknown So I just wanted to make sure I was thorough. The thoroughbred was thorough. Because you said that early in your story. Thanks for sharing, Scott. No, that's it's important. And, you know, some some would say, you know, on on and I'll digress here for a second, but some would say on podcasts, you know, what's the proper duration.

00;52;28;19 - 00;52;48;06 Unknown Well, it's it's all subjective, right. And it's a matter of what the intention is to, to provide. And so what we try to provide on this is just a reminder for if you've made it this far in any of the podcasts that we have, the conversations are including the stories of individuals that are one willing to come on and discuss these things in a moment.

00;52;48;11 - 00;53;05;19 Unknown You know, and you can say it's vulnerable. You can say it's impressionable. You can say it's, you know, storytelling and it's all of those things. But it's also the the matter of fact, the fact of the matter is it's relevant to when you look in when you're looking for culture and you're looking for an organization to join, you want to know more about the people.

00;53;05;19 - 00;53;32;04 Unknown And you know, in the veteran community space, the veteran affiliated community space, there's a relationship with everything that Scott's mentioned and everybody else that's been on to talk about their their story and the development and the process and the knocks, the bumps, the successes, the failures. But I think, you know, yours specifically. What was nice to hear the story is you had a bunch of people willing to be patient and see the the potential in an individual.

00;53;32;04 - 00;54;11;16 Unknown That and it doesn't happen for everybody that you see. People look at the outside of who this person is based off of their actions, their behaviors and their personalities. But they see something different and they try to figure out how to reciprocate the grace given, to understand what to do and when to do it. And, you know, there's the firm, there's the nurturing, there's the the hand-holding, and then there's the, the out, right, throwing the notebook across the room and being direct, you know, and these factors weigh into all of the things that matter when you're trying to join an organization and see if you're a fit.

00;54;11;18 - 00;54;36;27 Unknown And so the compatibility is one of those things where something we hope in these conversations on the Maven podcast, we can somehow, in a very small way, contribute to that process in any community, not just the veteran affiliated. This is anybody listening things are a process, and if you have the time to self-reflect, like Scott has mentioned, what, he didn't take the input.

00;54;36;27 - 00;54;58;14 Unknown He didn't take the opportunity to do early, but he eventually understood it. And and the switch flipped. You can see the things and you can you can recall these things and then you can hopefully you know, in reliving these things, in the storytelling, you know, the parts of those things, people can relate to that and then give gratitude for it.

00;54;58;16 - 00;55;26;04 Unknown And so, you know, having having senior enlisted in this case, in the community, you know, the enlisted is often look towards the wisdom to, to be able to come in and grab you by the ear and show you the way, you know, giving gratitude to those folks. Three main things from your story, Scott. And then I just wanted, you know, I'd love to talk a segue into, you know, how you bring all of these things into, you know, leading an organization, which, again, is volunteer, right?

00;55;26;04 - 00;55;43;25 Unknown Nobody has to do it, you know, wanting to reconnect. You talked about, you know, the things that you were missing, you know, and and then coming into an organization and then deciding this of your time out to volunteer the drivers of that. And so I'll kind of just throw this out here in increments three, they're wanting to reconnect.

00;55;43;28 - 00;56;14;06 Unknown Well, how does that happen? How does how does how does one get to the part to where there is the realization of saying, I'm missing something, and here's what I want to do the next? Is that the point to where the investment, you know, at some point all of us realize that something occurs, an event occurs and has us go all in and that that giving, giving of oneself into the investment of whatever it is that you're going to commit to with relentless, fearless tenacity.

00;56;14;09 - 00;56;34;05 Unknown And then finally, the value of rejection, you know, in the world of success and how that feels, you know, in some would say immediate gratification, kind of how that conditions your mindset to say, well, I'm going to do this and I want something in return and I want it now type of thing. The value of rejection is to kind of serve a purpose.

00;56;34;05 - 00;56;56;19 Unknown So, you know, with those three things, let's talk about how you're taking your experiences and the people that have helped you get to where you are today. You know, what are you doing with it now that you're in the role of both your day job and the volunteer role? Yeah. So that's, those are great questions. I like the, I like the way you frame them.

00;56;56;19 - 00;57;18;08 Unknown So the first question, how do you get to the point where you realize that, you're missing some sense of community, right? So, I spent a big chunk of my time when I first got out trying to reinvent myself. Because you spent 23 years reciting. I am a United States sailor. Enough times, you start to believe that that's what you are.

00;57;18;10 - 00;57;39;06 Unknown But you forget that you're also something else, right? Which is a person like, I'm Scott. I'm not a United States sailor. I'm not a retired master chief. I'm not a submarine, or I'm just a guy out here doing a job. And I and I need to really grasp that because all of a sudden, you don't have this core identity in your life.

00;57;39;09 - 00;58;04;28 Unknown Which you don't realize, is such a big piece of your identity until it's not your identity. Right? You walk away, you put away your uniform in a box. And I wouldn't say it was like hurting my ego. Like I didn't miss the authority and responsibility. So that wasn't it. I was enjoying my job as an individual contributor, and learning about the cloud.

00;58;04;28 - 00;58;23;24 Unknown I had a great time doing that. Being hands on keyboard, making change in the cloud, fixing things that were broken right up my alley. I loved it, but at some point, you know, you go to work, you go home, you go to work, you go home. It's just that's just a task. It's it's not being part of something greater.

00;58;23;24 - 00;58;51;18 Unknown It's not being part of a a team. And we are very insulated during Covid. Right. So like there was just seven of us and we had to be spaced out and you couldn't be in the same room at the same time. And it was just we fell off and then so I, you know, we got some people together, you know, we we had a socially distanced social event, you know, one time the distance may or may not have been the appropriate amount of space.

00;58;51;18 - 00;59;12;25 Unknown And then eventually we realized we were all in the same room. So we might as well just be together. Right. And it was a great I was like, oh, man, this feels awesome. It just feels good. Right? And I identified quickly that it wasn't the loss of the military, it was the loss of the community, the loss of the people around you feeling like you're part of something.

00;59;12;27 - 00;59;38;14 Unknown And then the, the military aspect of it is it's just, you know, you spend your adult life living a certain way. You kind of look for people who can understand that background. Right? It's just nice to have somebody understand you, people who are allies or are outstanding. We have a lot of great allies in the company and in the community.

00;59;38;17 - 00;59;59;03 Unknown But if you haven't lived the life, you know, there are some things you just won't. Right? You can't get it because once again, you can't just read about experience. Experience is something you earn through time, through involvement. Which brings me to my second thing. So you asked a question about, you know, how do you get to the point where you just go all in?

00;59;59;05 - 01;00;32;09 Unknown So I read a quote somewhere, it was misinterpreted and misattributed to Thomas Jefferson. It's actually attributed to Witold Gombrowicz, who's a, Polish author. He says, do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act action will delineate and define you. So, one ironic that a quote about action I would have attributed to the totally wrong person, and to really just I try to live that in the things that I do.

01;00;32;09 - 01;00;47;02 Unknown Right. Like, why wait, if you think something needs to be done, go do it. Right. So we met and I was like, hey, this thing's cool. What are we doing with it? Right. And and then from there, it's always been like, that's the first question I always ask. Okay, that sounds awesome. What are we going to do? Right.

01;00;47;02 - 01;01;07;00 Unknown Are we going to go? Are we going to go run an event in Austin? Sure. Let's do it. It's not planned yet. And it's like in three weeks. Well, let's go do it. Why not? Let's try it out. What's the worst that could happen? Right. It doesn't work out when we learn something. So, I've. I've really enjoyed the opportunity to be part of the action oriented piece of our community.

01;01;07;02 - 01;01;27;25 Unknown Right. So going all in was just. It's just in my nature. I don't know any other way. Right? I'm going to lean into the windmill every chance I get. Right. And then finally value of rejection. Yeah. So that's a tough one for me to process. I don't like to talk about it. So I make myself talk about it a lot.

01;01;27;28 - 01;01;56;07 Unknown Getting out of the military, I got to know a lot in the military. I got told no, a lot. And every one of them ended up being a piece of my philosophy. Right. So rejection, is is probably the world telling you you're in the wrong spot, right? When I was, I got out of the military, I did a corporate fellowship with Skill Bridge through Amazon, and it was, for a job I was pretty well qualified for.

01;01;56;07 - 01;02;21;21 Unknown It was for training, development, with operations teams in the warehouses. So I show up there. I'm. I'm pretty stoked. I'm inside the doors of Amazon. Like I have succeeded. Right? I'm going to go be one of the Uber rich south like Union knights. And and I'm going to love everything. Right. And I get in there and it's curriculum development and it's not really what I was thinking it was going to be.

01;02;21;21 - 01;02;45;19 Unknown And they dissolved that team and laid off a bunch of people, and there was no opportunity. So I ended up interviewing for a job called a vendor manager job, which is essentially interviewing people who are, selling stuff on an Amazon and, and building that deal with them. Right. You're managing the vendor vendors who manage to sell stuff on the Amazon platform.

01;02;45;21 - 01;03;08;03 Unknown And so I go to this interview, the manager is this Harvard MBA and she like ate my lunch. I have an MBA, but it had been a minute since I did that studying. And I have to admit this out loud, right? I got told by the recruiter, hey, here's some stuff to go study. And there were some key things, right?

01;03;08;06 - 01;03;23;21 Unknown The night of the interview. Like, I got to go in the next day. It gives me the study guide. I'm wiped. Right. I am getting out of the military, I just retired. My brain's not in a great spot, and I'm just like, you know what? If I don't know it yet, I'm not going to know it. So I don't even open the doc.

01;03;23;24 - 01;03;43;04 Unknown Right? He said it was like CliffsNotes, like here, like SparkNotes for younger people or or Google for everybody else who wants to know how to do a job. Right. And I didn't even open it. So I showed up and I just got annihilated. Right? It was terrible. And I did not get the job. I felt like the biggest failure on Earth.

01;03;43;04 - 01;04;05;16 Unknown Right. Well, I wouldn't be in the job I love today being successful at Oracle if I had not gotten that job at Amazon. Right. And, And I know that now. Right? Even even now, you're still learning, right? So the value of rejection is, well, you're being redirected, right? Because of where you chose to put yourself. Right.

01;04;05;16 - 01;04;39;16 Unknown And you know that you can't be again, you can't make up for experience and rejection is just an experience. Yep. Good. Couldn't said it better. So as as we segue into wrap this, what is Maven doing this year? What are we doing? All right, so, what are we doing? We're going to capitalize on some of the things we learned last year, continue to push out, the outreach to other organizations, be that veteran service organizations and partnerships.

01;04;39;18 - 01;05;02;09 Unknown We're going to push to continue to increase the value we're adding to the business, which we've been doing for quite a while. We've been baked into, business priorities and company priorities for a for as long as, I think you've been involved in the program, we've been pretty well aligned, with, with a lot of the business priorities.

01;05;02;09 - 01;05;44;12 Unknown And then, you know, we're going to keep fighting to grow the on site, in-person events. Right? Build community inside of Oracle, build community, wherever we're at, and expand opportunities for people to get engaged, to find that value in each other, to learn about each other, learn about the veteran community. And then, most importantly, I think is, because while we're building value into the employees, and, and giving them a sense of ownership and pride and where they come from and what we're doing here at Oracle, we're also giving them opportunities to volunteer and go radiate that outwards.

01;05;44;12 - 01;06;09;12 Unknown Right. So another thing that employee resource groups do is we're we're meant to meant to help bring our culture and our vibe out to the community. Right? People like me, I didn't know about Oracle when I was on submarines, right? It just wasn't in my schema box. I didn't understand what Oracle even was. I had heard of Microsoft and then I heard Amazon, but I had never worked on an Oracle database.

01;06;09;12 - 01;06;32;02 Unknown I didn't know anything about it. So. Well, we're pretty awesome company, right? So how is a veteran know that Oracle is an awesome place to work because a veteran told them Oracle's a great place to work, right. And everyone we've pulled in from outside has cited that as the reason they chose to come in. Right. It's the oracle culture.

01;06;32;08 - 01;06;51;24 Unknown It's the maven culture. It's the thing that they love is that they come here and they know they're going to be around people that they want to be around. They know they're going to be around people with similar values, with similar intentions, with similar goals. Right. And a lot of companies are good at it. Right? I think Oracle is great at it.

01;06;51;24 - 01;07;17;10 Unknown And we our job, our mission right, is to help spread that word and get it out there. We've really had a great year for that. And we're going to exponentially grow that impact. We're going to really shout it from the mountaintops, right? And really bring the spotlight on it. So we had a, what we like to call the pilot, event down in Austin, big on site thing.

01;07;17;10 - 01;07;38;18 Unknown It went fantastic. Had a bunch of vendors come in from veteran service organizations. I think we had almost every human being in that campus come out meat barbecue, lunch with us. It's a bunch of people got to socialize with veterans and allies and it was really awesome. Community event. Right. So what does that matter for fiscal year 26?

01;07;38;18 - 01;08;07;26 Unknown Well, we've got the model. Now. We know what that looks like. We know how to do it. And we're going to do that at multiple locations now. Right. We're going to improve and expand that engagement to the community and to our employees. So they feel that support deep. Right. So that's that's the big picture stuff. We've got some other things in the hopper which will unveil throughout the year, but, volunteerism, community engagement, alignment with the business to drive the bottom line.

01;08;07;28 - 01;08;29;06 Unknown Love it. I'm stoked. I can't wait for it. Final thoughts? Yeah. I just go right back to it if you think it needs to be done, don't wait for permission. Dive right in. Go after it and, and you'll find that it will pay you back tenfold. I love it, we'll leave it there. Scott, thank you so much.

01;08;29;07 - 01;08;55;29 Unknown Appreciate it. Thanks for sharing your story. It is important. You know, we have a variety of of folks that come through with their experiences. And, you know, those that do come through the veteran affiliated community, especially who are, you know, who separate as a senior individual, whether it's enlisted or officer, that's it's bringing great leadership qualities and traits and stories that can help infiltrate some of the mindset of those that don't think they can or don't know how to.

01;08;55;29 - 01;09;16;00 Unknown And, you know, it's just one piece to the puzzle that just you accumulate. And, hopefully as you bring people together, those stories can continue to be shared and everybody learns and grows together. So with that, thanks, Chris. Already one keep moving forward.

In this episode, Josh shares real-world insight into the challenges of transition, the importance of self-discovery, and why success beyond the military comes down to one key word: investment. From developing a shared vision with your family, establishing a strong network of connections, to executing that plan with the same tenacity forged in service, Josh offers a grounded, motivating roadmap for anyone standing at the edge of a major life shift. As his military chapter came to a close, Josh—a retired U.S. Army veteran with nearly 32 years of service, much of it within U.S. Special Operations—turned to the Special Operators Transition Foundation, or SOTF, for guidance in navigating what came next. That experience didn't just help him find his footing in a new career—it sparked a deeper calling. After spending his first few years out of uniform applying the skills he'd sharpened over decades of service, Josh returned to SOTF—not as a participant this time, but as a leader. Now, he's committed to helping other transitioning special operators find their way forward, giving back through the very program that helped launch his own next chapter. https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshuafhijohnson/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/specopstf/ https://sotf.org/ --------------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript:

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;41;08 Unknown You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode, I'm joined by Josh Johnson, director of programs for the Special Operators Transition Foundation. As his military chapter came to a close, Josh, the retired U.S. Army veteran with nearly 32 years of service, much of it within US Special operations, turned to the Special Operators Transition Foundation, or so for guidance and navigating what came next.

00;00;41;08 - 00;01;02;19 Unknown That experience didn't just help him find his footing in a new career. It sparked a deeper calling after spending his first few years out of uniform, applying the skills he'd sharpened over decades of service. Josh returned to Sota not as a participant this time, but as a leader. Now he's committed to helping other transitioning special operators find their way forward, giving back through the very program that helped launched his own next chapter.

00;01;02;20 - 00;01;25;20 Unknown In this episode, Josh shares real world insight into the challenges of transition, the importance of self discovery, and why success beyond the military comes down to one key word investment from developing a shared vision with your family. Establishing a strong network of connections to executing that plan with the same tenacity forged in service. Josh offers a grounded, motivating roadmap for anyone standing at the edge of a major life shift.

00;01;25;20 - 00;01;45;00 Unknown We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and please remember to check in on your buddies and family, Josh's contact details in the podcast description, and you can always find me on LinkedIn.

00;01;45;03 - 00;02;07;16 Unknown Good morning Josh. Hey good morning Chris. Good to see you. Good to see you. Thanks for joining me on this early Monday morning. I appreciate it. Anything exciting happening in the next couple of days or how was the weekend? Weekend was good. We're, my wife has a long list of honey do's, and she was out this week, so I took the opportunity to can kind of knock some of those out.

00;02;07;16 - 00;02;28;08 Unknown So I'm repainting kitchen cabinets. So I got to do all the sanding and prepping and start painting that. So, not as relaxing as a typical weekend, but not bad. Not bad. You can do that with your hands. You feel like you accomplished something? Yeah, that's some tedious work, too. That's mean. Got to get it right. Or you can see it right one podcast time, right?

00;02;28;08 - 00;02;46;16 Unknown You get that, you get to listen all your good. Do you pick up on anything? Any good ones? Man, I listened to a couple, Sean Ryan's got, health and wellness doctor, and he's just going through the whole food process and, you know, trying to figure out how to eat, right? And, some good stuff, right?

00;02;46;17 - 00;03;06;23 Unknown He's like, hey, man, if if, if you don't have that ingredient in your in your cabinet right now, don't eat that food. That's a pretty simple thing. So just, you know, full whole foods, whole ingredients. Yeah. Yeah. He's digging, digging into the, the whole saturated fats and oils and all that. And, you know, it's good stuff. Yeah.

00;03;06;24 - 00;03;28;27 Unknown No. It's good. Those little things help. All right. Josh is here to talk about the Special Operators Transition Foundation. And of course, as we typically do, we we lead in with a little bit about our guests. And so, Josh, if you would mind tell us a little bit about you. Yeah. So again I appreciate the opportunity to get on the Maven podcast and have this conversation.

00;03;29;00 - 00;03;49;29 Unknown You know, we've, sort of the Special Operators Transition Foundation and Oracle has, has built a really strong relationship over the last, I don't know, year or so. And it's only getting stronger. And so, you know, pull up through like this to get on and and talk with folks and you know just explain what we do. I'm very appreciative of that, of the opportunity.

00;03;49;29 - 00;04;06;21 Unknown So born and raised in Utah come from a decent sized family. Five of us total spent a lot of time, you know, in sports because, you know, the more practice you have, the less chores you have at the house. So, you know, you spend as much time out of the house as possible and leave it, leave everything else to the little siblings.

00;04;06;21 - 00;04;26;10 Unknown Let them do all that. Join the army early with this lofty goal. As a 17 year old terrible student of becoming a, an FBI agent at the time, I had the opportunity to talk to an FBI agent who was like, hey, we want accountants, lawyers or linguists. And I was like, well, not going to go to law school.

00;04;26;12 - 00;04;49;17 Unknown Math is my worst subject, apparently. I need to go learn it, learn a language. So I joined the Utah Army National Guard, to be a Russian linguist. And when I got down to the Defense Language Institute, Monterey, California, I found out that I do not learn languages very well. So, struggled in that and ended up not passing that which was one of the first times I ever failed anything.

00;04;49;17 - 00;05;09;29 Unknown That was kind of a, a kick in the guts and a reset. Came back, got married, had a baby and was doing like, construction. And then the National Guard and realized that that I probably want to try something else. Law enforcement was still on my mind, but I was too young to go be a police officer in the state of Utah.

00;05;10;02 - 00;05;34;21 Unknown So I joined active duty, became a military policeman, did that for about ten years. And then we were stationed in Belgium. I had gone back to the states, to the Army's protective services, detachment, like bodyguard school. And in my mind, I had this picture that was going to be all of these, like, top performers. Because who why wouldn't you want that?

00;05;34;21 - 00;05;56;02 Unknown You know, guarding all these, you know, important people. And it was it was a little like this, a little disappointed. But there were two Navy Seals in the course. And when we were doing our intros, everyone's like, oh, you know, I'm stationed in Belgium and we're going to be providing security for the, the secure. And, you know, all these everyone's kind of going around where they're going to be assigned.

00;05;56;05 - 00;06;15;07 Unknown And the two Navy Seals and one of them gets up and he goes, we're actually here to learn how to kill guys like you. And I just started laughing. I was like, well, that's a different mentality. But through the program, I mean, it was a great course of great training. We learned a ton. I just wasn't overly impressed with the people I was surrounded with.

00;06;15;07 - 00;06;42;27 Unknown And I kind of got thinking about the people in the, in the organization. And it it dawned on me that I was just ready to be surrounded by, kind of a, I would say high caliber, but at least people that were looking for something more because it can become shift work and all that stuff that comes with being a military policeman, it can become, kind of, hey, let's just get this done and get over it and get through with this.

00;06;42;27 - 00;07;03;17 Unknown And and I get it right. It's long hours, midnight shifts and all that stuff. And so there's not a lot of training that was going on. But I just decided I wanted to try something different. So I came home, took my wife out to dinner. Been gone a month, and she was like, well, how was the trip?

00;07;03;17 - 00;07;22;14 Unknown And I was like, it was good. But, I think I want to go Special Forces. And it was like the record player stopped, the restaurant got suddenly quiet, everyone staring, and she was like, are we going to talk about this? And I said, I feel like that's what we're doing now. And she's like, sounds like you've already made a decision.

00;07;22;14 - 00;07;47;16 Unknown I said, well, I think I have. And so ended up, you know, we talked it through and there were a lot of of misconceptions and, you know, rumors and, and all these different things. And we ended up finding we had a chaplain, who had been a who had been a prior 18 alpha. So Special Forces officer made it to the rank of major.

00;07;47;16 - 00;08;09;18 Unknown And then he decided he wanted to go to chaplaincy and so we had a chance to talk with him. And he was like, here's the deal. Like, as in any other MOS in the military, you're going to have people that make, you know, terrible decisions. He goes, but there's a lot fewer of them. And, you know, all of these rumors that you hear, they're just really not all that true.

00;08;09;18 - 00;08;35;12 Unknown What you're hearing are the bad highlights. It kind of eased some of that concerns that she had. And I just got a fire in my belly and just decided that it was going to happen. So I tried a really hard, which was super interesting because I'm, you know, rushing through these little Belgian towns carrying five gallon water jugs and just whatever people are going to be like, what is crazy American doing?

00;08;35;15 - 00;09;01;26 Unknown But I went to selection and I did well. And man, what, what an ordeal. The, if anyone ever know if anyone's ever heard anything about, Special Forces assessment selection, it's a three week process. Week one is all like individual assessment, swim test, PT test, psychological eval. Some run, some rocks, a little bit of classes on land navigation, to just get everyone to kind of a baseline.

00;09;01;28 - 00;09;25;27 Unknown And then week two is all individual assessment. So primarily based around land navigation skills. So I mean you're walking you kind of start out small or you're doing like 4 or 5 mile day and night iterations and then it pluses up and then you culminate with like a 25 mile night in day assessment. And that's a hard pass.

00;09;25;27 - 00;09;53;13 Unknown If you don't pass out, you're out. And then you go into team week and team week is it's a unique experience because they give you all of these crazy tasks and you have to, you know, immediately build rapport with the people you're working with. Establish a plan, enact that plan. And it's things like, here's an old Army Jeep with three tires, and year four, you know, 12ft poles and some lashing rope.

00;09;53;14 - 00;10;17;12 Unknown Move this thing eight miles down the road, or, one that they referred to as the fat bastard or the down pile up. It was a, an Army duffel bag. The old school army duffel bag filled with 300 pounds of dirt. And then you got these, four lashings, you know, poles, and you make a litter out of it, and you carry that thing, and it felt like 100 miles, I'm sure was only like 5 or 6.

00;10;17;15 - 00;10;41;00 Unknown But you just do it. All of these different tests, day and night iterations of all these different tests, and they're looking at, you know, what your leadership ability is, what what you're going to be like as a as a team member, do you have the ability to dig in when things get tough? And so at the end of that, if you pass all of those gates, that's just the entrance exam to go to the the Q course.

00;10;41;02 - 00;11;02;28 Unknown So I was in Belgium at the time, so I had to go back. And the army rule was you have to complete two thirds of an overseas tour before you could return. So at about eight months left. So we just, you know, kept trying to get better and better shape, brush up on some skills that I didn't didn't have, got it to a bunch of infantry manuals or Ranger handbook and things, you know, things you don't necessarily do as an MP and then showed back up.

00;11;02;28 - 00;11;27;21 Unknown But I got selected to be an SF medic, which was an incredible, I always had kind of an interest in medicine, first aid and whatnot. So you go back, you do, what they call phase one, which is like, it's small unit tactics. So kind of like a mini ranger school. It's about 45 days long, multiple patrols that you're testing day and night and, and you've got, you know, three different positions.

00;11;27;21 - 00;11;55;18 Unknown So you got to you got to you got to get tested out and go through and finish that went into the to the SF medic course. In the medic course is one of the most insane, intense, incredible courses that the military has to offer. So it's a year long process that takes you from a basic medical get yourself, or yourself, your, paramedic license.

00;11;55;18 - 00;12;18;25 Unknown So you go and do some rotations at, at a hospital, and then you do some rotations on an ambulance crew. So you're seeing, you know, emergencies, and then you go into the trauma side and they've got these just incredibly well laid out scenarios with, you know, mannequins that give biofeedback and just all these things. And every day is just kind of a test.

00;12;18;25 - 00;12;44;04 Unknown Just a test and, work your way through that, and then you end up going into advanced medicine where you're learning surgery and dental and laboratory work and you name it. At the end of this, you're allowed to be what, what the Navy refers to as a, an independent duty corpsman. So you can be the sole medical provider, for American and, local forces.

00;12;44;06 - 00;13;12;22 Unknown And I'm telling you, SF medics come out of there with skills. I mean, far above, at least on the tactical, the hands on emergency trauma stuff. It's pretty funny. We go through these hospital rotations. We do two of them during that course, and the SF medics will get in there, and they're faster than doctors. On some of these things, like sinking a chest tube, somebody's got, you know, taking a wound to the chest and there, that cavities filling up with blood pressure.

00;13;12;24 - 00;13;37;10 Unknown And, you know, guys are sinking these chest tubes because they've done 30 or 40 of them, whereas the average doctors read about one, saw PowerPoint on it, had somebody kind of walk them through it. And so you get you get done with that and you feel like you are just super well trained. And it was kind of the first time I ever walked out of an Army school feeling like, man, I know something I like.

00;13;37;10 - 00;14;19;16 Unknown I legitimately know how to do something. Then you go back, you do the big culminating exercise. It's called the Robin Savage exercise. And it's a simulated unconventional warfare exercise. It's about 45 days long. You get your mission, you go through planning, you do this big long, you know, infill helicopters and rocking and linking up with Partizans and, you know, moving into a guerrilla base with these, you know, guerrilla fighters that are taking on this big, long government and the scenarios that the, that the instructors come up with and the local population that's been doing this for the 50, 60 years that SF has been in existence.

00;14;19;18 - 00;14;40;01 Unknown I mean, we got we got tested to take out a, train bridge one time, and I was like, okay, this will be kind of cool. Sneak out in the middle of the night. You're replacing, you know, you know, simulated explosives and whatnot. And we were on the tarmac and, you know, hey, the train is going to come by at this time.

00;14;40;03 - 00;14;55;11 Unknown And sure enough, a train went by and I was like, are you kidding me? You guys got a train to do this because it went over the bridge. It stopped, came out, they did an evaluation, and then the train went back and I was like, you, you legitimately got somebody to drive a train in the middle of the night to for this exercise.

00;14;55;11 - 00;15;21;27 Unknown So super cool, train to come out of that go to language school, which, as we already know, I'm not super strong on learning languages. It I was able to to learn enough Indonesian to pass the test and move on to first Special Forces Group. First group. So you've got five active duty S.F. groups, and they're all kind of regionally aligned for a special forces group that has a primary responsibility for what they call Indo pick.

00;15;22;02 - 00;15;42;28 Unknown So Asia. So I got to do a lot of work in the Philippines and Thailand and, India and Bangladesh and just really get to understand that that area and then, you know, all the big wars kicked off. And so we're doing rotations in between, you know, our AOR and then go into Iraq and go into Afghanistan.

00;15;42;28 - 00;16;09;18 Unknown And so you get just a really good understanding of the capabilities of special operations. I got back got to become a an SF team star. And and typically that's an E8 position and it's about a two year assignment. But I when I first got there, SF, I got assigned to a dive team. So underwater operations team, and there was only one per battalion at the time.

00;16;09;18 - 00;16;40;12 Unknown And then they decided they wanted to grow the capability. Well, at that point, I was a diver, a dive supe, and a dive medical technician, and they were like, hey, we want we want you to to go stand up another dive team, grow that capability, within the battalion. So as a non promotable E-7, I got picked up to go do that ends up I got I, I ended up with almost four and a half years as a team sergeant, which is, you know, twice as long as the average person gets.

00;16;40;15 - 00;17;09;24 Unknown It was awesome. Just incredible. Some of the best soldiers have ever worked with doing some, some really cool missions, building the capability and growing the team from the ground up was was pretty fun. As I left that, I, I got the opportunity to go do a, a two year, the kind of impact the military exchange or military military professional exchange, opportunity program or other.

00;17;09;27 - 00;17;39;10 Unknown So I was the sole U.S. guy with the Australian CSR. So Australia's tier one unit got to to run a gun with those guys for two years. And one of the just I mean, I'm living in Perth, Australia. I'm one kilometer away from probably the most beautiful beach in the planet, running with with with guys that are just super motivated and very well trained and just thoroughly enjoyed that.

00;17;39;12 - 00;18;07;26 Unknown When I came back, I was a senior eight, getting ready to get looked at for, E9, but I kind of decided that I was it was time, right? I was a 20 years at that point, and they assigned me to a company that one of my really good friends was, he was a company SA major, and he was like, hey, I want you to be my operations are and I want you to, you know, get us ready to, to to do a combat rotation over Afghanistan.

00;18;07;26 - 00;18;36;02 Unknown And I said, well, yeah, I'm, I'm cool, but I think I'm, I think I'm going to get out. And so guy's name is Danny Roscoe and he's famous for, for saying that he's only got a, you know, a 12th grade, California public school education, but he's got a master's in trigonometry. He essentially tricked me into staying in for the rotation and then during the rotation, he said, hey, I want you to go be the battalion.

00;18;36;05 - 00;19;05;10 Unknown You know, first sergeant and then ended up making certain major. And so you know, came back, took over that exact same company as a company. SA major took him back to Afghanistan and then came back. And then I ended up closing out my, my time, what we call the advanced skills company. So managing all the training for parachuting, diving, shooting, some of the Intel courses, the jacks, they're called.

00;19;05;10 - 00;19;27;22 Unknown So tax and NSF. Just a great way to to close out, a career. And so I ended up doing just under 32 years, after I told that guy I was going to get out at 23 and stuff. But it was good. It was it was an incredible experience. So I retired in July, kind of at the beginning of the whole Covid scare.

00;19;27;22 - 00;19;47;20 Unknown And there was a bunch of, of issues with trying to get my, you know, VA claims process, because the morning I was supposed to go in and meet with my VSO, there was an 8:00 and an 830 appointment. I had the 830 appointment at 815. The world shut down because of Covid, and they're trying to figure out what I was going to do.

00;19;47;20 - 00;20;05;14 Unknown And the Army at my unit essentially said, hey, go figure out how to be a civilian. You're going to retire. We're going to give you the time to go do that. And so, you know, you're working on, you know, what that was going to look like. And I think, like most of us, when the time comes, we're ill prepared for it.

00;20;05;17 - 00;20;24;24 Unknown And I remember sitting down thinking, okay, well, let let's figure out this process. And I just stared at a wall trying to to, you know, whiteboard, trying to figure out what I was going to do and realize I didn't know. I didn't know how to become a civilian. And about that time I'd heard of this organization, at the time, it was called Your Grateful Nation.

00;20;24;27 - 00;20;48;06 Unknown And it was, SOF specific, Veterans Transition organization. So I called and interviewed for it, and and it was a rough interview. I was I was surprised at, you know, how detailed they wanted and, you know, the information kind of really digging into, make sure that I was going to be the the right guy because their reputation was based on.

00;20;48;06 - 00;21;17;20 Unknown Hey, we're bringing in the right people, putting them in front of the right organizations. But I was I was selected for it, went through that program, ended up getting picked up for a role with a company called West Shore Home. And they're a home improvement company based out of, Carlisle. Well, Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania. So left Washington State, where we were where we were stationed, moved out to Pennsylvania, and I was hired as the director of training and leadership development.

00;21;17;22 - 00;21;35;25 Unknown So if there is if there is a, a way to take an Army sergeant major and put him into a civilian organization, that's the place, right? So they didn't have one at the time? It was a brand new concept that they were trying to develop. And they said, hey, you know, you've got experience building a team from the ground up.

00;21;35;28 - 00;22;01;06 Unknown You've got all this experience and training and, and, you know, development, go figure this program out. So I ended up working for them for about two and a half years. It was great. Built this program from the ground up. Just learned an absolute ton about that specific industry. And then just civilian organizations in general ended up getting poached to go work doing leadership development consulting.

00;22;01;09 - 00;22;25;18 Unknown And that was fun. I got to meet just, I don't know, 20 or 30 different organizations, everything from police departments to cruise ship line up, an Alaskan trucking company up in Minnesota, just all these different organizations. And so I got to learn a bunch about a ton of different industries, through this process. But the entire time I had been very active as a mentor for a while.

00;22;25;20 - 00;22;46;18 Unknown And that then while I was in the program, became the Special Operators Transition Foundation. So they did a name change to to better align what they do. Just to make it a lot simpler, it was an advertising, decision. But the line, you know, the the name of the organization changed to align with the actual mission of the organization.

00;22;46;23 - 00;23;02;27 Unknown And I'd been very active, you know, helping new guys come into the program and trying to figure out what they wanted to do. And now suddenly I had all of this experience from, you know, being out of the military and working in these different roles. And they asked me if I wanted to come on, and become the director of programs.

00;23;02;29 - 00;23;22;26 Unknown And so and in January of 2023, I started in the role that I'm in, I'm, now, so, it's great. So now I run the process that all of the fellows coming through the Special Operators Transition Foundation go through. I get to do their initial intake call. I get to kind of figure out what what it is.

00;23;22;26 - 00;23;44;15 Unknown And they're they're looking for and what they want to do. And then we run them through this process. And that is the longest 32nd intro I've ever given. It's it's necessary. Yeah, I assure you then it was good because there's a lot of things impact impact inside of that that and I've been taking notes as you've been speaking and sharing.

00;23;44;15 - 00;24;09;15 Unknown So thanks for thanks for sharing the detail. Because it it does it might feel like it is lengthy, but it tells the story of the things exactly what we're talking about. You know, I mean, the one thing the most immediate, the closest thing to the end of, of what you shared is, you know, the choices that you're making and how it shifts in the master and in trigonometry.

00;24;09;18 - 00;24;28;05 Unknown I had to think twice about the because that's exactly what occurs. I think, you know, the top three things that occur when, when the longer you're in and the closer you are to a goal. In this case, let's say retirement at 20, there's a lot of contemplation goes on. It's probably preset as a baseline of what you expect to do right.

00;24;28;05 - 00;24;53;03 Unknown At 20 I'm going to get out, you know, not 21, not 1920, not 23 unless things happen. And so certain things and it seems in your experience, something happened to where it the options that were weighed brought more value than, than what you were considering. I mean, it's no joke. It was what, 13 years after that expectation. So it's not like it was hasty.

00;24;53;05 - 00;25;14;03 Unknown It may have felt that way, but it does. It does play a part in how challenging it can be when somebody's contemplating, how do I go from where I've been for so long to something new and what influences me to get away from that? Is somebody going to validate how I'm feeling and then pull me away from what I've been doing, or somebody's going to give me a reason to continue on?

00;25;14;06 - 00;25;37;28 Unknown Yeah. And and I really love that part because it does express some of the things that I think we should dive into is, you know, how how we're making decisions and what are the influences from a personal level, because even early on, you coming back from training, I'm sure your wife wasn't expecting at dinner for you to share that you wanted to go last.

00;25;38;01 - 00;26;02;26 Unknown Yeah. Versus go right or go straight or whatever it is you can compare it to. So let's start with that a little bit. Discussing with family how important is it in anything that we're doing. So I had this conversation with our fellows a lot. Most things in the Army you don't have much of a choice out, right? You maybe get to re-enlist and say, hey, you know, I want to go to this.

00;26;02;28 - 00;26;22;12 Unknown You know, I want to go to Europe. I want to you know, go to a specific unit or whatnot. But typically speaking, you march in order, you act on those orders. And so there's not a lot of choice that happens, but there are those kind of pivotal moments of all I do. I stay in the CMOs.

00;26;22;14 - 00;26;42;09 Unknown Am I going to go to 20, you know, you know, it's kind of that ten year mark that I think most veterans kind of look at. It really kind of. The three decision points are after your first enlistment at the ten year mark and then at the 20 year mark, and those are the times that you really need to have those conversations, with the family and say, hey, where are we at?

00;26;42;13 - 00;27;01;16 Unknown Right. Is this going to be a good decision for the kids? Is it going to be is this the right decision for what we're going to do? Is this right for me and my career? You know, I had that opportunity to go to Australia, but I had actually had that opportunity a few years before that to go compete for that, for that slot.

00;27;01;19 - 00;27;20;07 Unknown And we sat down with a, with a big family decision. And my daughter was just starting kind of her high school years, and she was super involved in a bunch of sports and, a bunch of academic stuff. And she was doing really well. And, we had to make that decision. Is this the right time for the family?

00;27;20;09 - 00;27;41;22 Unknown I do remember my son advocating for us to go, and we're sitting at the table and he goes, I just want to put this out there. If we go to Australia, I'm the one with the accent. I just laugh and my wife goes, well, it kind of seals the deal for me or that girl. But but perfect. So you know, and that was tough, right?

00;27;41;22 - 00;28;11;16 Unknown That, that was, that was a unique opportunity to take the family and and and and take them overseas. And we just made that decision as a family that it just was not right. The it wasn't the right call. And ultimately it, it, it it it worked out. You know, I got the opportunity to do it later. There's a really cool process in the Army that, if you were kids are in college and you are overseas, the Army will put them on TDY once a year and bring them out for a spring break.

00;28;11;16 - 00;28;30;08 Unknown So you got to bring both kids out to Australia, and they got to experience it. And so we didn't we didn't really lose out on anything in the end. But at the same time, it it wouldn't have it wouldn't have had the same opportunities for my daughter and my son. If we would have uprooted them in the middle of, of high school.

00;28;30;08 - 00;28;45;14 Unknown And that's a big one. Can I hear that from from guys all the time, fellows, I should say, coming through the program. Hey, you know, where is it that you want to live in, like, well, you know, I've got kids in high school, and I just don't think it's the right thing to to to uproot them in the middle of it.

00;28;45;16 - 00;29;09;07 Unknown It's a valid decision on the enlisted side, I think especially with special operations, you got a little bit more control of of your assignments and you can kind of if you plan it the right way, you can you can set yourself up in a position that's going to do that for the officers. What you once you leave company command, it's a two year rotation.

00;29;09;09 - 00;29;30;21 Unknown You just go on staff position, the staff position, the staff position. And that's that's disruptive for the family, particularly in those teenage years. And so I get a lot of the fellows that when I say, hey, what's driving this decision to get out? And they're like, it's it's family. Right. It's it's been around the kids being being an active part of my family.

00;29;30;24 - 00;29;57;10 Unknown And I get that. We were reflecting on this a while back. There was a three year period back when I was back on the SF team, three years in a row. I was home less than 80 days per year, and we figured it out. The longest I was home, the longest I spent the same or the longest I spent in my bed, was 21 days in three years.

00;29;57;12 - 00;30;23;26 Unknown And then that. That's rough, right? You got deployments, you got training cycles, you got red cycle task, and you got all these different things that you have to do. And the whole time your, your, your spouse is essentially a single parent and your kids are living without either mom or dad. And so when you get the opportunity to involve your family, I think it's one of the most important things that you can do, because it's not just you.

00;30;23;29 - 00;30;43;18 Unknown I mean, if you're single guy, single guy or gal and live, you live your life, take whatever assignment you know you can get. But if there's a family involved, there's a lot more decisions that have to be made. And one of the things that I talk about with the fellows, you know, we'll get people like, hey, my kids are in high school, but I ended up getting this job, you know, two states away.

00;30;43;18 - 00;31;06;20 Unknown And so, you know, it's a great job. It pays a lot. It's doing what I want to do. I'm so used to being gone from the family. You know, we're used to it, and I. What I tell them is, every other time you've been away from your family, it has been an army decision or a military decision to take you there.

00;31;06;22 - 00;31;27;15 Unknown You are now choosing to be away from your family, and you're going to do it. And so is your family. And I really want you to ponder that. And I got to be honest, eight out of ten come back and say, yeah, we had a talk and there's just not the right choice. We're going to find something different.

00;31;27;18 - 00;31;50;09 Unknown And I think that is I think that is the right call. Now for some families it works. But I've just seen it. I've seen it go bad too many times in the military. I've seen it go bad too many times from this position that if your family isn't at least an equal part of that equation, it's it's probably not the right decision.

00;31;50;11 - 00;32;12;02 Unknown Strong point. Because even if it were not the military, if you think about what separation brings and distance brings in any movie you watch, there's a there's a hardship that occurs and then there's an evolution of thought. I would imagine everybody's going through it, whether they acknowledge it or not, or understand it to be what it is. The distance creates.

00;32;12;02 - 00;32;44;07 Unknown Now, the opportunity for individual growth versus with your partner or the family and your perspective starts to shift. And so if it becomes a norm, like a habit being developed, you start to understand what independence really feels like. And you do things on your own and it draws you further away. And I think that's the oversimplifying it. I think that that includes some of the complications to where trusting in advocacy, trusting in opinions, trusting in validation.

00;32;44;10 - 00;33;03;14 Unknown And we always say, you have a buddy. What better one to have than your family to be able to talk about the things that you're going to decide in the planning phase? Because what you described, I was just imagining the similarities. Since we're talking about transition, the similarities of what we already recognize, what you're used to is planning.

00;33;03;14 - 00;33;28;20 Unknown We're planning for an an active or an event. And what do you do? You go find some opinions, you know, what are we going to do? How are we going to do it. And you start to develop the the contingencies around those things. So what because of where you are and your experience is the role that you're holding and some of the the advice and things that you share with others to consider.

00;33;28;22 - 00;34;06;11 Unknown What's the emphasis on planning and the similarities between what they've been doing as a service member and what is necessary to plan for? Typically, it's just an event, you know, we can call it deployment, another, choice that they're going to have to make because they're going to go do something different. What's the emphasis on planning? I think it's the the single biggest, emphasis, is planning out what that future needs to look like, you know, veterans who, who don't do a plan, who don't do the research, who don't figure out what it what they want to do, what value they're going to find in that role.

00;34;06;11 - 00;34;29;11 Unknown And they just take a first job because they need one. We know the stats on that, right? The average veteran goes for 2 or 3 jobs in 2 or 3 years because they just can't sort that out. And so our whole thought process is, hey, we're going to take your last year in the military and we're going to help you figure out exactly what that plan needs to look like.

00;34;29;11 - 00;35;06;18 Unknown And we we focus on three main areas. Where do you want to live functionally, what do you want to do and then what industry ultimately organization do you want to do. That functional area. And if you start that way and work your way down it it tends to work out and those things go hand in hand. Right? So if you tell me, hey, my sole desire and life is to be a rocket scientist, but all of my family living in Sandpoint, Idaho, hey, man, nobody's building rockets in Sandpoint, so we either need to figure out how we're going to make you the very first fully remote rocket scientist.

00;35;06;20 - 00;35;27;08 Unknown Or we need to figure out functionally a different area that you need to go down. So what is the priority and what is what is your your your main planning factor? And if it's to be in a geographic location, great. Then let's figure out functionally what do you want to do that is available in that area, what industries are available in that area, and then put a plan in place to achieve it.

00;35;27;11 - 00;36;03;23 Unknown And so starting a year out and going through a whole process of of figuring out who you are, what motivates you, what strengths you have, what experiences you're going to bring to a role, what what is going to, you know, be a passion project for you and then refining that down tends to work out our stats are quite a bit stronger than that then that we what we're seeing is that most of our fellows stay in that role for two years and then promote either within the organization or promote within that functional area out.

00;36;03;26 - 00;36;25;26 Unknown So they're making they're making a, choice to leave that specific role because of growth and not because this I don't like this culture. I don't like this company. I don't like what I'm doing. But it's because they have we have developed a plan and then enacted that plan over a years long period to make sure that it's the right choices like that.

00;36;25;28 - 00;36;59;23 Unknown And and you brought it up. Excuse me. So where do you want to live? The function that you want, and then the organization and the people you want to surround yourself with. That's how tough is that? To get them to understand what that looks like. If all they've known, or at least in the most recent. I mean, you talked about a year taking their year and then kind of using that as the, the catalyst for, for these things to understand who I work with is important, where work is important, what steps do you take to help them understand to be able to get that?

00;36;59;25 - 00;37;20;01 Unknown That's a great question. You know, we talk about the importance of networking, and we kind of reevaluated this over the last year or so. And, you know, we tell people your network is going and is going to get you your job, right. Something like 85% of all professional jobs, I'm sorry, 95% of all professional jobs happen because of networking.

00;37;20;03 - 00;37;42;19 Unknown So blanket online applications or resume submissions result in like, you know, a 5% chance of your first interview and then it goes downhill from there. And if you talk to people that that's all they're doing, they'll say, oh, I've submitted 100 applications. I've only got, you know, 3 or 5 interviews. Well, yeah, because it doesn't really work that way no matter what.

00;37;42;19 - 00;38;07;07 Unknown Glassdoor and indeed and, and LinkedIn tells you most professional jobs happen because of networking. So but what is networking. Right. And when you just tell somebody, hey go networking like oh okay. What does that mean. Well networking is we start out with, hey, talk to your friends that have gotten out. Do they like their jobs? How do their skills translate?

00;38;07;07 - 00;38;27;27 Unknown Do you know, is it is there you know, how is that organization? How does it feel culturally and it's cast a wide net. Talk to anyone and everyone just to figure out what is what is out there. I think I the Army has 207 roles and then you, you know, multiply it by that by the number of ranks within that role.

00;38;28;04 - 00;38;49;07 Unknown But 200 and 207 jobs. That's not a lot. There are thousands of jobs. It can be very broad or can be very narrow. And so figuring out what that means, we do a whole series of of webinars and just intro to the industry where I get people to come in and we talk to everything from project management and construction, project management in the defense space.

00;38;49;09 - 00;39;12;08 Unknown We've got a guy that does risk mitigation or risk management in commercial insurance. He's like, I was surprised at how well prepared I was for this role because I've done risk assessments my entire career. Right. And so now I'm just doing the same thing. I'm looking at an operation by a company or by, you know, insure a company.

00;39;12;10 - 00;39;32;00 Unknown So I start evaluating what those risks are. I've got a matrix that I put them up against and then I make a decision as to whether or not it is worthwhile for, you know, this company to insure that company. And so, it's pretty interesting almost, almost everyone that applies for the program going to say, what is what do you think you want to do?

00;39;32;03 - 00;39;55;03 Unknown And they all say the same two things consulting because that's what special operators do. You go to a foreign country, you consult with foreign military or project management because that's the easiest thing to translate. Hey, I was an astronaut was the first of those opportunities aren't everything's project management, but the number of people that actually go into consulting project management is, is way lower than the near 100% that tell me that's what they want to do.

00;39;55;06 - 00;40;16;17 Unknown But it's because we we really introduce them to multiple opportunities and industries, right? Figuring out functionally what you want to do and then figuring out the industry. And so, hey, talk to as many people as you can, have their skills translate. Do they like the job? Do they like the role? And then as you narrow down then you want to open it up.

00;40;16;17 - 00;40;38;03 Unknown So let's take Oracle for example, somebody says, hey, I think I want to get into business. You know, software sales and Oracle seems like a really good company. All right. Well, how many people at Oracle have you spoke with? I haven't okay. How do you know anything about Oracle? Like. Well, you know, I got on their website, they've got cool pictures and they, you know, they're showing all these things.

00;40;38;04 - 00;40;56;29 Unknown I'm like, yeah, but have you talked to anyone at Oracle like no I'm like, all right well let's do this. And so I'll jump into my database and find, you know, the 7 or 8 folks that we have had hired by Oracle or we'll get on LinkedIn and I'll say, all right, you know, here's how LinkedIn, this is how you use LinkedIn, right?

00;40;57;01 - 00;41;18;18 Unknown Go to an organization, you go to the people, you find the people that are veterans, and then you start reaching out saying, hey, you know, I'm a I'm a transition service member. I've been doing this, I'm super interested in Oracle. Can I get 15 minutes of your time? And I'm always surprised at the number of people who don't say yes because it's really low, which is awesome because I think veterans just want to help veterans.

00;41;18;21 - 00;41;41;22 Unknown And so now you get somebody that knows what you've gone through, right? They know what you're currently doing and they're willing to to give that time and, and be very honest about, you know, the questions you're going to ask. Okay. What is what is, work life balance? What is the culture there? You know? And so now you build up, your information about organization.

00;41;41;24 - 00;42;01;22 Unknown And then just based off of that, now you can start narrowing that network into something you want to do. I tell fellows all the time to the last two questions you should ask in any networking opportunities. Hey, who else should I be talking to? And will you connect me? Right. Because I don't I don't know who I should talk to an oracle, right.

00;42;01;22 - 00;42;18;09 Unknown I just know Oracle is a great company. They these roles seem to align with what I want to do. People seem to be happy they're I'm talking to somebody at logistics or I'm talking to somebody at marketing. But really I want to get into business development. So who do I talk to? Oh, I've got a really good buddy over there, or.

00;42;18;09 - 00;42;35;14 Unknown Hey, I'm part of this Maven organization. Let me connect you with them. And that both. Now you've got, you know, this whole audience of folks that are that are willing to to help you narrow that down. And the introduction, I think is super important. Right? Because if you know, you call me and you say, hey, what is life like over at soda?

00;42;35;14 - 00;42;49;12 Unknown If I'm like, oh, that's the greatest thing ever. And you and I get talking, I'm like, Ben, this is somebody I think it would be cool to work with. I can't bring them on my team. But man, I'd love to have been building and. And then you hit me up with, who else should I be talking to? I'm like, well, what do you want to do?

00;42;49;13 - 00;43;05;28 Unknown You're like, man, I'm all about raising money for a nonprofit. Okay, let me make a phone call. Right. So now I call and say, hey, I've been talking to Chris Spencer. This dude is awesome. I would love to have him on my team. I still have space. But, you know, what he really wants to do is what you're doing.

00;43;06;00 - 00;43;27;24 Unknown So now somebody that that that trust you that and you've said, hey, I've done an evaluation. I think this guy would be perfect. He's like, what? Yeah, of course I want to talk to him. So now you're a vetted, asset that can be brought in. And so, man, those those two questions are so important. Who else should I be talking to?

00;43;27;24 - 00;43;43;25 Unknown And will you connect me? Right. And networking is like mining, right? You dig down, you find a little bit of where you find a vein, you're going to run down that vein, hope and find the motherload. If it doesn't pan out, you come back up to where you know you've got something and you start work in the next space.

00;43;43;27 - 00;44;06;12 Unknown And so the more points of contact you have into an organization, the better you're going to be able to evaluate. And the more you have in common with the people you're talking to, the more they're going to be able to answer questions that make sense to you from where you're at. And that's what I love about networking is especially in the veteran communities, you can get some real honest answers.

00;44;06;15 - 00;44;19;12 Unknown I've had I've had people that I've talked to him like, well, what do you what do you think about your job? He goes, this is the worst place I've ever worked in my life. Like, what are you doing there? It's like, you know, I signed up for the blood money I've got, you know, another year so I can keep my bonus.

00;44;19;12 - 00;44;41;14 Unknown And then as soon as that happens, dude, I'm out of here. I'm like, what would you recommend for anyone else? No, I would not. This is miserable. I'm like, okay, so if I get somebody that's interested in talking to, you know, are you willing to have their conversation 100% right? And that's one point of data, which is why you have to have a network of people, because you could just have somebody that's angry and bitter, you know, having a bad day.

00;44;41;17 - 00;44;55;27 Unknown But if you talk to 4 or 5 people and you're like, hey, this place sucks, man. They just burn through us. We're cogs in the wheel. And as soon as we wear out, they just replace us like it's no fun. Or you talk to people who are like, I love this place. I show up to work every day.

00;44;55;27 - 00;45;23;02 Unknown My boss is super cool. I've got a gym that I can go to. You know, the people are dedicated, they're willing to help, and then you get 4 or 5 people that are telling you the same thing. Well, now you understand the culture of that organization. And so networking is is so impactful in finding, you know, hey, what is it that I want to do functionally and then what organization do I want to do it.

00;45;23;02 - 00;45;44;16 Unknown And, and just having as many conversations as possible. Yes, there's truth in that statement. Josh and I are talking as a result of networking. So one of our friends, because Doug is a friend, but he's also a military parent, happens to live in the area. I met up through somebody else, through another function inside the branch of service.

00;45;44;16 - 00;46;06;29 Unknown They, you know, Doug gets introduced to the organization. And then we had an event and he met you. Introduce me to you. Now we're here talking. And the trust that comes as a result of that because you nailed it to trust. I think that's the that's you have to establish the concrete evidence that you can trust somebody to be able to do these things.

00;46;06;29 - 00;46;28;27 Unknown Because advocacy right now, you'd love to help everybody, but not everybody is ready for help because of what they what they currently believe and what they're ready to hear and those types of things we talk the candor that veterans have. Absolutely. Getting feedback from a veteran is going to help you regardless of how you feel about it, because it's going to tell you the hard truth or it's going to tell you something else.

00;46;28;27 - 00;46;54;09 Unknown Right. And it's it's necessary somewhat of a ramble, the going going back to the two years things. If we can touch on this real quick, the expectation setting because there's, there's some some caveats to the, to the growth that occurs. And then, and then the, the timeline. And this just happens to, you know, it's not really arbitrary, but two years and that's somewhat related to service to where you're going to transition, you're going to pieces, you're going to get promoted.

00;46;54;12 - 00;47;13;12 Unknown There's a timeline that correlates to that to where now it's it's conditions yourself to believe that that equates to success, because there's some other things that hardships that we we all are familiar with, the suffering of being into a role in civilian life and the public and the private sector where we say, oh, it sucks. I don't want to be here.

00;47;13;15 - 00;47;35;25 Unknown Well, you're still learning something. And so what I've done is kind of revealed this, this notion that if it's uncomfortable, I don't need to stay. And I've been lately just more. So it's like, well, if you think about what you're learning, if you're within five years of transition, you're actually understanding what it is like out here now with that environment.

00;47;35;25 - 00;47;55;21 Unknown And of course, you don't need to stay, but it is giving you something to wear. Now you can recognize how to navigate that because now you're you're collecting what you you had mentioned. It's one data point, your experience with one leader because you also mentioned somebody in your story. There's going to be bad decisions. The chaplain had told you they're still going to make bad decisions.

00;47;55;21 - 00;48;14;26 Unknown There's fewer of them. And I think the one thing that we can all remember is when you're when you are where you end up, just maybe pull yourself out of that sometimes spontaneous reaction to what what you're experiencing to realize you're going to get something from it and you're going to become better for it, you know, because now you're learning it.

00;48;14;28 - 00;48;34;17 Unknown So maybe stick around and see what changes, because the other part is you don't know what other people are going through. And if you can remember the influence that you have, you can maybe change and help that person or that team become better. And maybe that's your purpose because we don't know that. Yeah, you know that. That's such a good point.

00;48;34;20 - 00;48;57;21 Unknown You know, on average, you know, veteran, you know, particularly somebody getting ready to retire, they're going to move into a role with less authority and responsibility than the one that they had, right. Brigade commander or squadron commander, you know, what are they saying? And you're going to take a step back. And there's a good chance that that person who is your boss doesn't have the experience that you have in that role.

00;48;57;24 - 00;49;20;02 Unknown And there is nothing wrong with leading from from where you stand right leading up that chain of command. And if if you've got a boss of struggling somebody and you've got to experience that, that you can help them out, why would you not? Right? I mean, selfishly, your, your you're making your environment better. I got a better boss.

00;49;20;02 - 00;49;45;18 Unknown They know what they're doing better. I can teach them how to you know, you know, lead through leaders intent or, you know, just establish a basic, you know, battle rhythm. All these different things that we learn, is going to make my life easier. More importantly, you're influencing everyone around you, right? And and if you can influence one, two levels up, two levels down, left and right, you just created a much stronger team.

00;49;45;18 - 00;50;08;18 Unknown That environment that you may not like is probably going to be a lot better, right? So invest in the role that you're in. And, and give it as due diligence because there's a very good chance that you're going to find, that, that what you learn from that position and what you learn from those experiences is going to set you up for success.

00;50;08;18 - 00;50;28;15 Unknown And I promise, you know this. Everyone else knows this. Somebody is watching. If you're this person's like, well, this sucks. I'm just going to do my work and punch you out at 5:00. Somebody's watching. But if somebody goes, hey, we have some legitimate problems and you're actively working on them, what do you think you could do from this level?

Bridget's personal and career journey is marked by purpose, resilience, and an evolving understanding of what it means to lead with intention. From her early ambitions to her role today in supporting veteran transitions through coaching for role fit, she shares how her personal and professional experiences have shaped her approach to career growth and mentorship. Through honest reflections, Doc talks about developing the self-awareness to identify what she truly wanted, and how that clarity transformed the way she shows up—in her relationships, her work, and in the guidance she offers others. You will hear a grounded take on the realities of ambition, the importance of emotional balance, and how veterans and military spouse's can translate their strengths—like grit and drive—into any environment without losing what makes them unique. With insights on communication, adaptability, and owning your story, this episode is a thoughtful look at how to move forward with purpose, and why doing the internal work is often the most important part of any process…to include getting from where you are to where you want to be. https://www.linkedin.com/in/bridgetmiller1001/ https://www.oracle.com/veterans https://www.oracle.com/careers/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript:

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;34;00 Unknown You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by Bridget Doc Miller, Oracle talent advisor, U.S. Army veteran, and military spouse. Bridget's personal and career journey is marked by purpose, resilience, and an evolving understanding of what it means to lead with intention.

00;00;34;00 - 00;00;55;11 Unknown From her early ambitions to a role today in supporting veteran transitions through coaching for role fit, she shares how her personal and professional experiences have shaped her approach to career growth and mentorship. Through Honest reflections, doc talks about developing the self-awareness to identify what she truly wanted and how that clarity transformed the way she shows up in her relationships, her work, and in the guidance she offers others.

00;00;55;12 - 00;01;20;08 Unknown In this episode, you'll hear a grounded take on the realities of ambition, the importance of emotional balance, and how veterans and military spouses can translate their strengths like grit and drive into any environment without losing what makes them unique. With insights on communication, adaptability, and owning your story, this episode is a thoughtful look at how to move forward with purpose and why doing the internal work is often the most important part of any process to include getting from where you are to where you want to be.

00;01;20;08 - 00;01;39;01 Unknown We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode, and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. Doc's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn.

00;01;39;03 - 00;02;02;24 Unknown Bridget Miller. Doc, what is going on? Hey, how are you? So good. How are you doing? Doing all right. So we're here talking about some things. We're coming into Military Appreciation Month, and for you, I'm sure that's considered every month. Veteran's day is every day, that type of thing. Spouse day is every day, every day, every day. So let's do that.

00;02;02;28 - 00;02;24;12 Unknown Let's talk about Bridget Doc Miller. Yeah, sure. First of all, you know how much I love talking about myself. So you must have some special magic to get me to agree to this, but really excited to be here. Thanks for having me on. I guess going back to the beginning, I grew up in Ohio, went and did my undergraduate, the university of Akron.

00;02;24;14 - 00;02;45;09 Unknown And then during that time, that's where I enlisted into the Army within the National Guard component. So I was A68 whiskey or a medic within the National Guard. I would say that's kind of the point. That really changed the pathway of my life. And I've been working with the military population pretty much ever since then. In college.

00;02;45;09 - 00;03;08;11 Unknown That's where I met my husband, Tyler. Back then, he was a, you know, cadet in ROTC. I loved making fun of him for that one, but he eventually commissioned, when active duty, and we actually spent the first six months of our marriage geo batching. So that was pretty much a crash course in the solitary lifestyle of a military spouse that we see sometimes.

00;03;08;14 - 00;03;32;25 Unknown And I really got to see, you know, the military affiliation from a new perspective. During that time, I stayed back in Ohio while he did his initial entry training. So that that bullock training that Army officers need to go to when they first start finished up my MBA. It was definitely just a total head down, grinding time of my life that it is absolutely quick as I could.

00;03;32;27 - 00;03;57;18 Unknown And I also worked in the military science department helping recruit for the RTC program. Got to do some pretty cool stuff while I was in that role. Even got to read my husband's commissioning, as the MC, which was pretty cool. We met back up later, my husband and I at Fort Bragg and I worked for a university, helping to build their military pipeline as a national military recruiter.

00;03;57;21 - 00;04;23;19 Unknown So traveled around all over the United States just helping build that military affiliated pipeline, meeting tons and just awesome people. That role in particular was, you know, really life changing. I developed really quickly as a professional and learned how to hold my own in a roomful of veterans that looked different than me. Right? I was the only woman veteran at the time.

00;04;23;23 - 00;04;48;23 Unknown I worked with only male military retirees. So I was the young woman in a crowd that just was completely different on the experience level than I was, but I had a really good leader there. Shout out to Bob Habib if he's listening. But he always amplified my voice, and he really gave me a seat at the table in the veteran space, which I think was the push that I needed.

00;04;48;26 - 00;05;09;17 Unknown I couldn't take that role with me when we pieces. We ended up moving after a few years to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, and I couldn't take it with me there. But honestly, that was kind of a blessing in disguise. Because that's how I landed here at Oracle. Started as a military veteran sourcing a recruiter, actually, at that time, got to work pretty close with you.

00;05;09;17 - 00;05;34;11 Unknown And that's how we met. So loved that experience. But I was helping build the military veteran pipelines into multiple of the military pathways here at Oracle. So things like that academy, you know, skill bridge, sweet beds, those types of things, and then later moved into the talent advisor role handling the full cycle of the candidate experience from, you know, that first call all the way to the offer.

00;05;34;14 - 00;05;59;07 Unknown And I still have some hands and things like skill bridge, sweep pads, those types of programs as well. Now where I'm at today, I am currently out of Fort Campbell, Tennessee. We are kind of in the midst of a PKS move right now, like we were talking about before this, to the Washington, DC area. So moving to Springfield, dealing with the new military, moving contracts and all of that.

00;05;59;07 - 00;06;22;17 Unknown So I'm definitely kind of in the middle of all of those challenges. But looking forward to moving there next month. Very nice, very precise backstory. Appreciate the the work putting in there to make it simple. There's no doubt way too much detail. No, no, I think you just write them out. You left out a piece though, because you're going on a career path and talking about education in somewhere in there.

00;06;22;17 - 00;06;52;02 Unknown You earned a PhD. Yeah. So that leader that I had mentioned, doctor Bob Habib, he it really encouraged me to kind of pursue my passion of working with the military population. And at the time, I didn't know exactly what I wanted to look like. I knew I wanted to have an impact on military affiliated individuals, whether that be spouses, veterans, active service members, whatever it was, I knew that's the space I wanted to be in.

00;06;52;04 - 00;07;17;26 Unknown And when you get to that level of education, it's really nice because you can kind of tailor everything you do over multiple years to a very specific topic. So you're going really deep into one topic, not so narrow across a variety of topics. So. So the next few years I researched and developed a seminar series I kind of wrote.

00;07;18;00 - 00;07;48;12 Unknown I would call it like a mini book, right? My dissertation equivalency. But that centered around how organizations can recruit, retain, develop military affiliated individuals. Where I saw the need was, you know, I originally went in thinking that I would help develop something that would help transitioning service members, moving into the corporate space. But I realized that those programs were out there.

00;07;48;12 - 00;08;14;02 Unknown There was a lot of programs out there that already address that need, and what I didn't see as much of was, from the organizational perspective, how we can bring veterans in and support them through their corporate journey as well. So that seminar series was a three part series. So the first one was just familiarity of the military population, kind of educating organizational leaders on the basics.

00;08;14;02 - 00;08;35;29 Unknown I remember, you know, during my like pre seminar series assessment, one of the questions was can you name the branches of the military and very, very few of the participants were able to do that. So I noticed that a lot of the main findings around readiness for veterans just centered around the general education to the public about the military population.

00;08;36;01 - 00;08;57;24 Unknown So that was kind of the first thing to tackle. And then after that, we dug a lot more into the recruitment and then specifically the retention of that population as well. Nice. I'm taking nice, nice. Yes, because it all ties back. And if if anybody's familiar, if anybody listening is familiar with how RDoC works now, it makes sense.

00;08;57;29 - 00;09;17;18 Unknown It's everything should click right now because you have you have a yeah I know you're very humble and yes to go back to what you're saying, it did take a couple of attempts to try to get Bridgette on on the podcast here, because it is it is to, to define what the what what the top track would include and things like that.

00;09;17;18 - 00;09;33;28 Unknown And so but the reality is your influence is greatly appreciated because of what you do and how you do the how you do what you do for the recruiting and then the conversations. I think even though recruiting is a channel and that's the focal, the focal point of what what you're doing, but why you're doing it is not that so much.

00;09;33;28 - 00;10;03;00 Unknown I mean, it is it's inclusive, but it's not same. It's it's the purpose. So let's go back a bit, because a lot of the stuff that we talk about when we're having a conversation about what we do, and then as life occurs and the more that we're involved in what we're doing, whether it's a career or a, you know, a profession or a habit, hobby, what have you, it's why so early on when you chose to go in the National Guard, what was the reason?

00;10;03;02 - 00;10;36;18 Unknown Yeah, I know you're going to ask this. I'm pretty predictable. If you listen to me, I said I would. I would love to say that I joined because I had a long family line of military service or, you know, something like that. But I think if I'm being completely honest with myself and with you, I just got got by a recruiter, a recruiter got me at the right time, right place, right point in my life where, you know, I was in college and I was trying to self-fund my way through college.

00;10;36;18 - 00;11;04;01 Unknown And the benefits of joining the military were something that made sense in my life for me to do. So. Yeah, I was young. I am so glad that it happened. Because I think it made me who I am today. And I don't think I realized it at the time, but I'm definitely the type of person that enjoys working towards a shared goal and working in an area that's bigger than myself.

00;11;04;01 - 00;11;25;19 Unknown So if I hadn't enlisted, I think that my life would be in a very different place than it is now. So yeah, super glad I think I was just right time, right place and the right recruiter reached out. That's why I enlisted that. That's good. And of course, be honest completely with yourself. Yeah, jokes aside, because that does matter.

00;11;25;19 - 00;11;49;26 Unknown I mean, and I would love to talk about that. We'll put a pin in it, because I think that statement alone is important for the things that occur now when, yeah, when you're paying it forward and trying to have a conversation with somebody as to why they're wanting what they're wanting and introspect is important. So being being honest with yourself is, is the number one thing that for instance factor accelerator.

00;11;49;26 - 00;12;07;16 Unknown Right. So the Honor Foundation has a the project vector accelerator that that has been spun up that focuses on that identity. Being honest with yourself on what you want to do and what you want to achieve and things like that. So it is a part of the equation. But now we're going to the medic, because even though I think if I, if I didn't know, which I really don't.

00;12;07;16 - 00;12;24;09 Unknown So this is going to be I'm going to learn from this also it yeah, it does track as to why selfless reasoning. Even though you're trying to put yourself through college, there was a point to go into that, because the reason why you chose to do that still includes selflessness. Which medic that track, but not talk about that.

00;12;24;09 - 00;12;50;04 Unknown Why? Why medic. Yeah. So a couple of reasons. My undergrad was actually pre pre med. I had planned originally to go into physician assistant school, after graduation. And, and I'm not doing that just because of kind of the path that my life was on at the time. But I was pre-med in my undergrad. So, you know, I was I was booksmart, and I had the scores to be able to do it.

00;12;50;06 - 00;13;15;14 Unknown I remember I went into my recruiter's office and I had told him I wanted to be the closest thing I could to infantry, which at the time was not an option for me as a woman. So, yeah, I think based on, you know, the scores, my, my background, the things that I enjoyed in the medical field and then just trying to get me closer to, you know, back then the cool guy stuff.

00;13;15;14 - 00;13;36;21 Unknown Right. That just aligned really well. And yeah, super glad I did it. Because of the length of, you know, things like I for medics, I actually split up that experience. So after freshman year of college, I went to basic training, for Excel to finish up my sophomore year of college. And then we had something called the split option.

00;13;36;23 - 00;13;58;02 Unknown So I did it sophomore year. I think I missed one semester and a full summer of school, and then spent that time at Fort Sam Houston going through medical it, getting my EMT, things like that. Fort Sill, Oklahoma, for those. Listen, beautiful Fort Sill, Oklahoma, the first time I've ever heard somebody having been there for in the conversations I've had.

00;13;58;04 - 00;14;20;21 Unknown So welcome to the board. Fort sill. So how was that experience that, you know, so let's talk about the recruiter real quick. I mean, the skill sets, because you are one didn't learn anything from what you experienced back then. Stick with you to what you're doing now. Yeah, 100% transparency is the number one thing that sticks out when we're talking about that.

00;14;20;21 - 00;14;42;16 Unknown I am a big believer and transparent and see and finding the right fit for somebody. I don't agree with the concept of kind of selling a role, and I've never seen anyone at Oracle do that, by the way. But, I have seen recruiters do that where maybe they're using excitement of certain things to get somebody into a specific military MOS.

00;14;42;19 - 00;15;21;25 Unknown But he was really transparent about, you know, how difficult that would be, especially as a small small framed person right on five foot. So going to meet a guy I knew that would be a big physical challenge for me. So he was really transparent. And the growth that I needed to have before going to be successful, and I kind of use that in my role now, because when I'm talking with somebody, I want to be very transparent about, you know, what the interview process is, what the role they're interviewing looks like, what that means for them.

00;15;21;28 - 00;15;45;28 Unknown And in addition, addressing those gaps and having some coachable conversations, especially with the military population on how they can address those gaps throughout their interviews. Right. They may not have this very specific skill, but they have something along those same lines from their military background. So helping folks kind of translate that conversation as well. Yeah, I think he caught on that.

00;15;45;28 - 00;16;04;17 Unknown If you if you use the words give me as close to infantry as possible, he's probably playing off of that says, yeah, well yeah. Okay. So good on him. You remember. Yeah. 18 year old duck. Yeah. Todd Everett, great guy. Actually recently transitioned. I had to send this to him when I, when it lists out, but.

00;16;04;25 - 00;16;30;26 Unknown Yeah. Great, dude. Nice. Super thankful. Good. So so while while you're going through all of that, you know, you going for your MBA? My guess is challenge had become and obviously the alignment between pursuing educational goals. But challenge seems to be something that's in your vocabulary up front. You love a challenge. Yeah. Do you? Yeah. I can get antsy when something becomes too easy.

00;16;30;26 - 00;16;50;19 Unknown So when that happens, I find some way to create a challenge in a fun way. You know, going from like even here at Oracle, going from sourcing, which is the front half to moving into full cycle, that created a challenge for me or, you know, finished with school. But maybe I wanted to pursue something a little deeper. That was definitely a challenge.

00;16;50;19 - 00;17;14;05 Unknown So absolutely, definitely something I value. All right. And then and then we get to the intention to pursue the PhD with the specialty occupying your time with another significant challenge with the MBA pursuing that. But but essentially, it sounds like you were driving towards something that you and tell me if I'm wrong on this, you're instinctively gravitating towards something very specific.

00;17;14;07 - 00;17;38;13 Unknown Where was that in your timeline before you decided to go into pursue the PhD in that particular topic? What happened? It stemmed from being a recruiter for that university, right? So it was essentially my role to travel the United States, go to things like career fairs or education fairs or whatever it may be specific to the military population.

00;17;38;13 - 00;18;05;26 Unknown And I was traveling to military installations, speaking with spouses, with transitioning service members. And I just saw the. Complete anxiety that comes with a transition like that, when people are leaving the security of a military occupation. Right. And at the time, I was addressing it in my role with, okay, here's the next steps for things like education, right?

00;18;05;26 - 00;18;26;00 Unknown So when you're leaving the military, you're either going to go to work, maybe you're retiring, but you're either going to go to work or you're going to go to school. There's a basically the two main options. So at the time I was addressing it on the education side, but I saw all of this anxiety surrounding the transition and truly just the identity shift.

00;18;26;00 - 00;18;54;09 Unknown And that is where that triggered in me wanting to be able to address that specific piece. Right? That three, four month period right before you leave and right after you leave the military. That's where I wanted to make the impact, because that's a pivotal moment in somebody's life. And so I got the education piece from my role and then decided to dig in on the transition, specifically through the educational journey.

00;18;54;11 - 00;19;30;27 Unknown You know, like I mentioned, I had originally intended to make it more of a transitioning program for military veterans. How they can translate their resume is how they can advocate for themselves in interviews. But what I found was that space was already saturated, did in the market with different programs. What I didn't see was programs that were designed for organizations to understand, you know, they're at the point where they've made the decision of, yes, we want veterans or yes, we want military affiliated individuals here, but they're at this now.

00;19;30;27 - 00;20;13;17 Unknown What crossroads, right. So after I think it was maybe like six months, starting that original transitioning year, I switched over to address the now what organizations looking to hire military affiliated individuals. Got it. And so to your question, it did. And thanks for that. And I was a little fuzzy on the ask, but it is typically because you you briefly mentioned it obviously in your intro, as you said, you walk us through the timelines, but it's, you know, I'm usually I notice that there's there's a flash point, even though we generalize and we talk through this, the story at a high level to give, give a sense, a general sense of what occurred.

00;20;13;20 - 00;20;45;03 Unknown There's usually a circumstance or an event, a specific event that occurred where the switch flips and then you all of a sudden are intentionally focused with relentless pursuit of that thing, you know, and this is the little that I do know of you having worked with you early on, I mean, early in in my short attempt at becoming a recruiter, tough to hang with the big dogs, talking to, talking about doc here, you just say, I need 20 and you blink and all of a sudden the next morning you got 20.

00;20;45;06 - 00;21;13;14 Unknown So you have these on Rolodex. How do you get so many people so fast? Well, you know, we'll talk about that. But there's usually an occurrence and and that drives, I think, what embeds ourselves to where we embody the, the purpose. Right. And that's the drive that makes it consistent. Right. And the conviction I think is in your recruiting, in your talk tracks and some of those, you know, the way that you're having a dialog with somebody where they you establish the trust that shines through.

00;21;13;14 - 00;21;34;29 Unknown And I'm just looking to see what what appeared for you. Yeah, it was definitely a slow burn for me. I think the only point in time where it was an absolute like, I'm only targeting this, was when I couldn't take my role with me from Fort Bragg, when we PKS to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri. I remember, it was like January that year.

00;21;34;29 - 00;21;53;00 Unknown We had just moved in and my husband was like, okay, what do you want to do? And I said, here's exactly what I want to do. I want to work for a fortune 500 company. I want to have a great impact on the veteran population, and I want to be specifically working in some type of talent acquisition space.

00;21;53;02 - 00;22;19;28 Unknown And then, I mean, I'm a big proponent of faith based open doors. And I got exactly that. You can tell Oracle. Yeah. Agreed. I mean, but you earned it. Just to be clear. Yeah. Not to go too far into that, you know, it's when you set it up, you're prepared for the opportunity and you are absolutely, seemingly putting in the work to get to that part, to have earned the opportunity.

00;22;20;01 - 00;22;37;29 Unknown Let's talk a little bit about now where you're at at that stage is the the military spouse. Now, you know, you've just recently landed a new spot and good on your husband for asking the question and including you and saying, what do you want to do? I mean, it's that not to that, because that sometimes isn't all the time happen.

00;22;38;01 - 00;22;57;14 Unknown Yeah, he really gave me the space to figure out exactly what I wanted and the time to find it, which is a luxury that I'm really thankful for. Yeah, I that so once, once you once you got to once you had the opportunity to to think about what you wanted and you were very intentional on what you were looking for.

00;22;57;21 - 00;23;28;14 Unknown Fortune 500 having an impact. You came here. How has it gone so far, like from when you started, which was when? About three, three and some change years ago? Three and some change. Yeah. And from then to now, what's worked well, and what are some of the things that you're still working through to improve for, not only for yourself, but as you're experiencing putting it all together on focused on the veterans, really a community trying to help business leaders find the right talent for their teams and things like that.

00;23;28;17 - 00;23;56;00 Unknown You know, help us. Help us see what you experienced so far. When I started out, I was very specific to the military population, so I started I was a military source. They're very specific to the military affiliated population. I did that for about a year. And so during that time, I really built up my military and affiliated network and LinkedIn, what you refer to as the Rolodex, right.

00;23;56;00 - 00;24;22;11 Unknown Just like these individuals that I talk to often reconnect with within this space. And that did a lot with other organizational, you know, military affiliated talent. Folks worked a lot with military talent program management here. And when I moved over to the team after that, I actually moved out of what would technically be considered like a military population recruiter.

00;24;22;11 - 00;24;49;02 Unknown Right. But I don't think a lot of people realize that because I still put so much effort into building the military pipeline here. So even though it wasn't necessarily in my job description to do that, I think that it was really important with my background to just advocate for those types of candidates. Those types of candidates transition and then try to create space.

00;24;49;02 - 00;25;15;09 Unknown When I'm working with hiring managers for those military affiliated individuals to fit what they're looking for. Right? So, yeah, I think even though I'm not, you know, necessarily in that military role now, I still try to have the impact on that population and as much as I possibly can. Got it. Yeah. I imagine it bleeds into other things too, where you know, you're taking the best of of what's worked.

00;25;15;09 - 00;25;41;17 Unknown And then, yeah, refining it and improving the new space that you're in. And this changed where you transitioned into this role here. It was just in the last two months ish. Right? I want to say it was October 2022 as a tan advisor on the early career team. So I was doing full cycle with that. And then just recently, you know, a few weeks ago I moved over to more experienced talent advisory role.

00;25;41;17 - 00;26;11;06 Unknown So working on higher level higher, I got into graduate relations on that. I because you said it, I'm not we're not worried that you're abandoning you still helping to kind of never never because I want to weave in some things. So you know we're we're talking about your own career. You know, you were afforded the opportunity and of course, supported with your family in, in what your goals included on on individualizing your focus and, and having your own thing.

00;26;11;09 - 00;26;33;14 Unknown Yeah. What are some of the things that military spouse go through, you talked about early on being separated over a period of time, talking about some of the goals and aspirations that you have, and unfortunately, you've had support doing that. Yeah. You just said the challenges with the military spouse life. Yeah. It's a long list. Yeah. So I talked a little bit about job matching at the beginning.

00;26;33;16 - 00;26;51;19 Unknown You know when my husband was at Fort Leonard Wood and I was in Ohio job matching for those that don't know is when your spouse lives at a different installation than you do, fairly common in the military spouse life. And that's definitely a kind of a solitary experience. So I have dealt with that. You know, other challenges.

00;26;51;19 - 00;27;24;05 Unknown I don't think we touched on it actually, in the introduction, but I do have two children. I have a four year old and a seven month old as of yesterday, dealing with deployments with children is indescribable. How much of a challenge that can be? I think that, you know, folks that haven't been a military spouse, especially with deployments or long TDY, is they might grasp the concept of their spouse being away.

00;27;24;12 - 00;27;46;05 Unknown But I think when you compile that with, you know what they say, it takes a village, right? With children when your village is in a different state, right? Everyone you know, everyone you can lean on for support is in a different state, far away. I mean, the closest we've ever lived is eight hours from family. So when my husband is gone or deployed, it's it's just me.

00;27;46;07 - 00;28;18;28 Unknown So that is definitely a challenge. Just maintaining their routine and their sense of normalcy during that time, trying to work on your own professional development, trying to get some chicken nuggets on a table, just whatever it is. It's a challenge that I think that it's a really it's a hard concept to grasp until you go through it. Even me, military background, military spouse, my first diplomat with children was, very eye opening.

00;28;19;00 - 00;28;48;00 Unknown And I have a newfound respect for folks who have, you know, lots of kids that do lots of deployments. And then I would say, finally, the challenge of your career or your aspirations, just by the nature of the military, essentially have to come second a lot of the times, right? So, for example, this year coming up, if I didn't have a role that could move with me, which was very intentional, you know, coming to Oracle, I made sure that that was an option.

00;28;48;00 - 00;29;09;17 Unknown But if I didn't have a role that could come with me, I would have to leave right when I worked at Regent and when I couldn't take that role with me, it wasn't an option, and I had to leave a role that I just absolutely loved. So that is definitely a big challenge, especially for, you know, a military spouse that is within the working space.

00;29;09;19 - 00;29;38;02 Unknown So I would say those are the three biggest things, really, just the solitary lifestyle getting used to that, you know, not having the ability to lean on support that is physically with you, your career kind of being second to the military and then just needing to to leave sometimes. Thanks for sharing that. And yes, it is, it is an experience that it if you haven't gone through it conceptually, you can understand.

00;29;38;04 - 00;30;08;16 Unknown But yeah. So you know, it is truly an experience and and shout out to all of those that are doing it. It's not easy. So you're moving through into a different role, but your focus and your participation and your engagement still includes helping others understand the differences. So, you know, I'm going to kind of weave this back into that part where you were focused on organizations and educating them on understanding the the community or the demographic that they're hiring.

00;30;08;18 - 00;30;29;17 Unknown How much how much of that still plays a part in what you do here. Again, going back to helping business leaders find the right people and then making sure that the hiring side, not the the candidacy side, the hiring side is, is as informed as possible on why this person is in front of them and understanding the dynamics of that individual going into that.

00;30;29;17 - 00;30;59;06 Unknown That process is still a huge part of my role. Definitely. Having those conversations with hiring leaders to understand that, you know, being open minded to the military background can be really beneficial. You know, a lot of times there's a lot more in a military affiliated resumé than maybe meets the eye. Right? Unless they have just amazing translation skills and know little corporate space very well.

00;30;59;09 - 00;31;18;20 Unknown A lot of the times it's a simple matter of something like wording or leaving something out, right? Like for example, you know, you have a lot of NetSuite folks on, and if I talk to a military affiliated Canada and say, hey, do you know, you know, what an ERP system is? They say, no, but they were a super user in GCS.

00;31;18;20 - 00;31;52;15 Unknown It's like, well, there's a lot of relevant experience that you might have. That's more than more than meets the eye. And so I have those conversations pretty frequently with hiring leaders, just about kind of being open minded to the different military backgrounds, understanding specifically what is trainable and what we're looking for. And I think for hiring leaders, understanding what is trainable and what is coachable is really key, because a lot of the times those things that aren't coachable are the soft skills that military affiliated individuals just absolutely crush, right?

00;31;52;15 - 00;32;14;11 Unknown They bring the grit that is necessary for a lot of roles. They bring the things like longevity and commitment there to term, and they have integrity. So they're always working with integrity and things like that that are, to be honest, quite an easy sell for the population because those are the things that we can't teach. Those are the things that you have to search for in a candidate.

00;32;14;13 - 00;32;39;29 Unknown So as with strengths, many strengths, you know, they can help you and they can they can hurt you for lack of better ways of saying it. Yeah. You know, I have grit. What are some of the downsides of also that's inclusive of that. Having that quality that that you'd have to coach these candidates through to understand the level of I know I'm going to use this word the intensity, right.

00;32;39;29 - 00;33;07;24 Unknown Or the, the dense, the density. Yeah. That, that particular characteristic. Yeah. I think with that, the only time that I see, I guess, what you would consider the potential downside of those types of attributes are like grit, for example, is, you know, when you're moving through the hiring process or speaking with potential hiring leaders. Like you said, the intensity in which you describe that grit, or whatever that soft skill is.

00;33;07;27 - 00;33;29;03 Unknown So, you know, say, for example, we are really looking for somebody that can have clear, concise communication, right? And then that individual has clear, concise communication every day with the hiring leader. Or they're really determined for the role, but they're reaching out to the hiring leader twice a day, every day trying to get an update right. So everything can always go too far.

00;33;29;03 - 00;33;56;24 Unknown Eventually, every strength eventually could become a weakness. So I think on the front end of that, just coaching candidates to understand what is culturally acceptable in the corporate workforce. That may have been different in the military, right. If you're constantly trying to get an update on your paperwork from your S-1, your, your, your as when you're knocking on the door every single day trying to get an answer.

00;33;56;24 - 00;34;22;11 Unknown And that's sometimes the way you get the answer right. But that doesn't work in our space. So I guess coaching, like you mentioned, the intensity of those soft skills is key in finding success. Yeah, and I bring that up. And it's not to degrade or diminish the the quality. It's to give an understanding of balance. Right. You know that when we talk about what we see, if we serve we see this.

00;34;22;11 - 00;34;42;04 Unknown If you see it in competitive sports, you see it, you know, it's let's let's go. You know, the the highly motivated ready to ready to run through things to get to the end state. You know that's important. But it's also, you know to an extreme example of explaining it's to be the doc right. You can have have that calm appearance on the outside.

00;34;42;04 - 00;35;18;12 Unknown But that fire and tenacity can be burning inside. But you have to learn to control some of these things and, and I and that's what I wanted to call out with you, especially with your background on focusing how to how to educate those on understanding both sides. If there's an emphasis on you know, consideration for what the optics would include or what the perception of others might have, when you show too much ambition, too much potential and desire in these types of things, it comes in, in the enthusiasm, walking into an environment to where, yeah, there's going to be some change needed.

00;35;18;14 - 00;35;46;06 Unknown And for those who are skilled to see immediately in an environment or a condition or a situation where we're skilled and seeing the field of play, if you will, before the play develops. There's a there's a tact that we still have to include in communicating effectively what was being observed, instead of just go and try and fix it, are going to tell people, hey, there's a problem there, I'm gonna fix it.

00;35;46;09 - 00;36;14;06 Unknown There's a casualness that needs to be deployed at that point. And, and this is mostly for the folks that are very excited about the role. Yeah. That I always tell. Yeah, I always tell folks to, to try to match the energy of the hiring. It's right. Yeah. If you're going into a meeting and your your interviewer is very calm and composed and kind of, you know, soft spoken or something, that you're not going in there talking about how you're just going to crash everything all the time.

00;36;14;06 - 00;36;38;08 Unknown And. Yeah, so matching the energy is like, yeah, that's a good one. Yeah. Because my, my question, although I could have been a little bit more concise. What are some of the tips and tricks. And you just nailed it. It's match the energy that's better safe than sorry is to have more adaptability to what they're saying. And and of course what they're saying.

00;36;38;14 - 00;37;06;14 Unknown And you don't overplay, what else what tips and tricks. Yeah. What other things are there since we're down here? Yeah, I would say for job seekers, first things first is take ownership of your hunt. Understand exactly what you want. A lot of the times, and you probably see this as well, that a lot of the times will have, you know, folks reach out, especially from the military space.

00;37;06;16 - 00;37;22;22 Unknown Maybe they'll send me their resume on LinkedIn and say, hey, do you have anything for me? That is not, you know, taking ownership of your job hunt. Kind of like in the military, they always say, nobody cares as much about your career progression as you do. Right? So I think first things first is you got to figure out what you want.

00;37;22;22 - 00;37;43;12 Unknown And if you don't know what you want, that's totally fine. But doing things like having informational interviews with people in that role already are absolutely key. A recruiter can only provide so much information. A career coach can only provide so much information. So if you don't know exactly what you want to do, talk to people that are doing it every day.

00;37;43;12 - 00;38;04;00 Unknown Get the good, the bad, the ugly, and then be super clear when you're talking to hiring leaders, whether that be hiring managers, recruiters, whoever it is about what you want and why you're a fit for it. So doing the work first before you're you're having that outreach. Yeah. I mean, honestly, those are probably the two big takeaways that I could think of.

00;38;04;03 - 00;38;22;14 Unknown Now. That's a good one. I mean, those are those probably are the umbrella to which everything else falls into place after that. Because once you once you start to connect to that and then you do the work to understand what that means by identifying, well, considering we talked about it and we'll start to segue into the close, you're about it.

00;38;22;14 - 00;38;50;01 Unknown You no one know what you want. And that comes by way of being honest with yourself, more so than exactly right. Exactly. Want to comment on that or that's about where it's at. Where it is self-explanatory. Yeah, I think that's where it is. Just self-reflection is really key in your transition, and the only way to minimize that anxiety in the job search is to know exactly what you want and target it with laser focus.

00;38;50;04 - 00;39;06;14 Unknown And that port has a sub component to know what that is. What I don't know what I do. I don't know what I want to do, I know what I did, and I'm probably going to be comfortable in this. You probably hear this in every episode of this conversation that we have on the podcast. Is, you don't have to do what you did unless you want to.

00;39;06;16 - 00;39;25;05 Unknown Okay? Right. Yeah, I post about that a lot on LinkedIn. Your role in the corporate workforce or wherever you're moving, it does not have to do it does not have to be anything like what you did in the military. I am not a medic. I'm not an EMT. And I'm doing I think, okay, am I role. So yeah.

00;39;25;09 - 00;39;50;01 Unknown Yeah. Well so let me summarize and then we'll get to the to the final thoughts that you may have. So you you embody these things and that's, that's what is interesting about this conversation and you is because the fact is that, you know, the tenacity that you had to be where you were and then approach identifying what you wanted to do and then pursue it the way you did, you know, by my joining, right?

00;39;50;03 - 00;40;21;12 Unknown You say you got got but maybe that maybe it was less about you deciding and it was more about influence, but about yourself, man. Yeah. You were persuaded to do something you probably didn't want to do anyway, right? So yeah, he matched your energy and he got you. Got you where you got it. Right. So yeah. And then and then the MOS that you chose and then, you know, pursuing the degree, of course, the relationship that that occurred with your husband and that grew into now having the ability to be separated but still stay focused on what you were wanting to achieve.

00;40;21;12 - 00;40;42;27 Unknown And then what really stood out is when you get to that next duty station and then you're asked by your husband is, what do you want to do? And you were very intentional. Probably through oversimplifying and summarizing it. You had to do a lot of things before that to get to that time to where you said, I want to work here doing these things.

00;40;43;00 - 00;41;10;25 Unknown And that's what we're talking about, is that have to do the work to understand what you want to do with such conviction, because hiring managers probably don't say this enough. That's what they're looking for. When you tell your story is, why should we hire used kind of the theoretical question. It's wanting to be answered, but how you share what it is that you're interested in, you know, a lot of it comes down to you running away from something or you running into something, and we'd rather have somebody running into something.

00;41;10;27 - 00;41;38;13 Unknown Not to say we won't discount anybody else and the other factors, but we want somebody that wants this bad. Yeah, there's nothing better than a candidate that knows exactly what they want. And what they want is the role that you have open. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the other side of it too is the hiring, the hiring leaders also are, you know, in an awkward moment, vulnerability where they're taking a risk, you know, and, you know, the things that that go into the investment in the cost and all those things, it's all relative.

00;41;38;13 - 00;42;06;11 Unknown But it's a matter does it does take an effect. And so when somebody says, yes, there's a lot of hope in that. And we're banking on words perceived by the attitude shared to the story. And so it's people like you that actually give credibility to the to the process of recruiting. So appreciate you and for what you've done and then how the things are that you've gone through those things to get to where you are and then have the conviction that you have to help pay it forward through the community.

00;42;06;13 - 00;42;27;29 Unknown Any final thoughts? Yeah, I guess, you know, for hiring managers like I see on my LinkedIn a lot, hiring veterans, it's not a good deed. It's a good business. Be open minded to those conversations. And for job seekers, you know, take ownership of your hot lead when you're not in charge. Just do what you need to do to get where you want to be.

00;42;28;02 - 00;42;42;29 Unknown Got it. All right. Thank you for that. Thanks for your time. Thanks for coming on. Thank you, Chris, for having me. You got it, Padawan. Keep moving forward.

We caught up with Jesse in between his Army National Guard duties to dive into a powerful conversation about ambition, resilience, and the power of community. Jesse shares how his drive, vision, and strong network helped him navigate the unique challenges of balancing military service with civilian life—challenges many of us rarely consider in our everyday career paths. We explore the behind-the-scenes planning, reflection, and foresight it takes to align personal goals with professional responsibilities—both in and out of uniform. Jesse brings to light how he created opportunities through preparation, perseverance, and a few tough life lessons. His upbeat, can-do mindset shines throughout, revealing why he continues to earn a seat at the table wherever he goes. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to harness their skills, rise to the occasion, and grow with gratitude for the people who help make it all possible. It's an inspiring, energizing conversation you won't want to miss! https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessedurrant/ https://www.oracle.com/veterans/ https://www.oracle.com/careers/ https://www.travismanion.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript:

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;35;10 Unknown You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Mansour, and in this episode I'm joined by Jesse Durant, Oracle senior site reliability developer and Army National Guard officer. We caught up with Jesse in between his Army National Guard duties to dive into a powerful conversation about ambition, resilience, and the power of community.

00;00;35;11 - 00;00;59;08 Unknown Jesse shares how his drive, vision and strong network helped him navigate the unique challenges of balancing military service with civilian life challenges many of us rarely consider in our everyday career paths. We explore the behind the scenes planning, reflection, and foresight. It takes to align personal goals with professional responsibilities both in and out of uniform. Jesse brings to light how we created opportunities through preparation, perseverance, and a few tough life lessons.

00;00;59;08 - 00;01;15;19 Unknown His upbeat, can-do mindset shines throughout, revealing why he continues to earn a seat at the table wherever he goes. This episode is a must listen for anyone looking to harness their skills, rise to the occasion, and grow with gratitude for the people who helped make it all possible. It's an inspiring and energizing conversation you won't want to miss.

00;01;15;21 - 00;01;34;16 Unknown We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and please remember to check in on your buddies and family, Jesse's contact details in the podcast description, and you can always find me on LinkedIn.

00;01;34;18 - 00;01;52;28 Unknown Hey, Jesse, what's going on? Not too bad. Chris is here. Another day in the office, you know. Excited to be here. Thank you for having me on the podcast. Pretty impromptu, but I'm excited to be here. Sometimes it is last minute, but you know how it is when somebody has a good idea or what they believe to be a good idea.

00;01;53;04 - 00;02;11;12 Unknown We act on that. The worst that could happen is somebody says no and you did not. So thanks for accommodating being flexible. Typically where we start just a little bit about you and let's go with that. All right. So let's start out with where I'm at now. Currently I've been with Oracle for three years. Just hit my three year anniversary this month, so I'm excited.

00;02;11;12 - 00;02;32;12 Unknown I've been part of the team for three years now. I'm a senior site reliability engineer and on tour ops. My manager and Scott Paper, as you know him pretty well. Fantastic manager currently, as well as working for Oracle, I serve in the Army National Guard and I'm a tenant there for the engineer. So vehicle engineer is my main job there.

00;02;32;15 - 00;02;51;07 Unknown Anything that needs to be built from ground up. The guy Rhodes, demolition. I'm the guy. And then I'm an avid runner. Like to run? I'm part of several run club there in the Seattle area. So if you want to get out and network and meet other tech people, Come running. Got it. That's that's pretty good.

00;02;51;07 - 00;03;16;28 Unknown So. So you're you're from are you originally from Seattle? So I'm originally from Eastern Washington. I grew up in Tri-Cities, Washington, mostly known for the Hanford nuclear site, back during the Manhattan Project. So Pasco is a specific city. It's, I'd tell a small town, population wise, it's growing. It's becoming bigger and bigger. The main industry there is agricultural and, the nuclear site, Washingtonian my entire life, though.

00;03;17;01 - 00;03;30;20 Unknown Got it as you were growing up. What were some of the things that you were doing out in Eastern Washington? What was, what was a kid doing in a town like that? So there's a lot of, the Columbia River runs right through the cities. It splits it up. So there's a lot of swimming in the river.

00;03;30;23 - 00;03;50;15 Unknown Even though was down, downstream from the nuclear site, you know, it was deemed safe. So we swam there a lot. Worked a lot as a kid growing up helping my dad with his lawn care business, as well as just hanging out with friends. Played sports my entire life growing up. Whether it's from, team sports like baseball, basketball.

00;03;50;15 - 00;04;10;22 Unknown Later on in life, I got into cross-country and track. More individualized, but still team aspect. So a lot of running, on the on my own funds try to enjoy the summer heat that we have down there compared to the West Coast. You know, 310 day, the sunshine. So significantly different than the West Coast. Oh, yeah, I bet, I bet, yeah.

00;04;10;22 - 00;04;31;15 Unknown The it's a little bit of trust going in that river, I guess. I mean, that's that's good. Yeah, definitely. So it was a lot of trail run or, street distance. What type of running? A mix of both. So, mostly street was in high school, and then later on I got into trail running, especially now that I moved to the west side of the state.

00;04;31;18 - 00;04;50;12 Unknown Been in the west side Seattle Bremerton area for the, since 2016. So that's where I fell in love with trail running. And, I really enjoyed that a lot easier on the body and, definitely more scenic. Yeah, I bet the scenery over there, I mean, I imagine both sides of the state is beautiful, but,

00;04;50;14 - 00;05;14;00 Unknown Yeah, very different on on the, Seattle side. Yeah, yeah, the east side. I like to say there's more tumbleweeds and there is trees. Oh. Got it. Yeah. All right. At least at least in the southeast part where I grew up. All right, so growing up in a town like that, at some point, did you did you get an itch and to feel like you were going to want to try to find something, something new to do?

00;05;14;02 - 00;05;35;01 Unknown Definitely. It being a bigger city population wise, it still didn't have the attractions and the job market that, you would be in for such a city population wise. And so I, I knew if I wanted to grow, expand my horizons, I would have to venture outside of the tri cities. Early on in life, I wanted to join a military.

00;05;35;02 - 00;05;53;19 Unknown I was like, at some point it wasn't a question if I was gonna join, but when and what branch? So senior year started talking to a recruiter, maybe recruiter, and start talking me out about the the Navy Seals training program they have. And, I was really excited about that. So senior year, like a month in or so.

00;05;53;20 - 00;06;13;20 Unknown I'm still 17, graduated early for, my age. I graduated 17, so speak to my parents. Hey, can you sign this waiver? It's a training program for, like, three months. Basically my entire senior year. And from there, they allowed me to go into maybe, maybe basic training and then into buds with an opportunity to, you know, try out for the seals.

00;06;13;22 - 00;06;32;22 Unknown And they said, no way. There's we're not going to put our son in danger. Right. So kind of put that on the backburner in high school as part of Deca, which is a business organization that's nationwide through high school and the collegiate level. And it learned a lot about business. So I was like, well, I can go to college, right?

00;06;32;23 - 00;06;50;23 Unknown I mean, that's a goal of mine as well, besides serving in the military. So I was awarded a one year scholarship from a construction class that was in high school my entire three years, where we did, we built a house every year from the ground up. So we fell back on my plan B for the moment, which was go to college.

00;06;50;29 - 00;07;08;20 Unknown After that first year of college, I realized how expensive college was, right? So I was like, ooh, how am I going to pay for this? I didn't come from, a very wealthy family, so I had to find a way to support myself through college. And I started thinking again about joining the military. How how can I get in?

00;07;08;23 - 00;07;25;23 Unknown How can I still join and serve my country? As patriotism was one of the main reasons for joining. And then later in life, I saw the benefits that came with it as well. So I decided to reach out to recruiters again. NASA. I had a buddy, one of my best friends in elementary school, all the way through high school.

00;07;25;24 - 00;07;44;26 Unknown His dad was a recruiter for the Oregon National Guard. He told me, you know, some tricks on how to get in to the military. Back in 2010, I did get approved by the my civilian doctors saying, hey, it should be fine because, I don't I had a longboarding accident my senior year right there in the middle of the year.

00;07;44;29 - 00;08;08;11 Unknown Had to overcome quite a bit. Was out of school for a little bit over a month. After that, my base was paralyzed for almost three months after that. So, that's kind of what made me put the military on the backburner again after that first time. The lieutenant's denying me, the approval to join. So that solidified my plan to backtrack and live by my plan to go to college for that year.

00;08;08;14 - 00;08;35;05 Unknown But after I found that, you know, I need some more funds. So from there, fast forward, I got a basic training and job, advanced individual training, which is your MOS. And so I was, the maintenance guy for a couple of years. And then as soon as I got back, I was like, back to school. And the guards, that's the benefit of the guard is being able to do serve your community and your nation as well as going to school.

00;08;35;08 - 00;09;01;26 Unknown Nice. What what part of maintenance were you? So the quartermaster, chemical repair, water pumps. I was part of a burn unit where our main mission within Washington state was the decontamination of any nuclear, any Cbrn, events or situations that happened within the state, like a train derailment or, or any sort of chemical spill. So I was the basically anything that was related to water pumps and water heaters.

00;09;01;29 - 00;09;22;21 Unknown I was the guy, but got roped into maintenance since I was the only one within my unit. So I hung out a lot with the mechanics. Got it. Yeah, I was a mechanic also, and so very familiar with with that team, where where I was stationed. Okay. Very nice. Any correlation between where you grew up and the fact that it was in that particular field?

00;09;22;24 - 00;09;43;23 Unknown It was, within a city about 30 minutes from the Hanford site. At the time, I never thought about it, if that, you know, strategically placed there in case of an incident. But, in hindsight, it looks like, it may have been for sure. Got it. It's a plan. It's always plan. Family. Yeah, there's always a bigger plan.

00;09;43;25 - 00;10;12;22 Unknown So that was what, 2010, 2011? 1111? Yep, yep. Okay, so then that you started out enlisted or was it because of college? Did you get in to be an officer? No, I started I enlisted, spent ten years enlisted. Okay. My military career has been, it's been a unique, a unique one, for sure. After basic training and I, I, I came back to college and I was like, well, maybe I'll look into being an officer.

00;10;12;22 - 00;10;33;03 Unknown Right? So I joined ROTC for a semester at the Washington State University in Pullman. And while I was there, I realized I'd been in at this point two years. And the program is self is basically self led among students. Students are all leadership. So we police each other with the advice and guidance from the active duty personnel.

00;10;33;06 - 00;10;58;21 Unknown And at that time, 2000, this is 2012. Now, the got phase was was big. If you're in the Army, you do have a patch. We used to call them just like fleets. You didn't have a patch. You were frowned upon, especially if you were an officer. So I decided I can't be one of those officers. Right. I I've been in two years when I got a deployment or need my belt before I contract in ROTC.

00;10;58;24 - 00;11;19;06 Unknown But college don't pause for the second time and decided to find a unit deploy with and of course my buddy Thad, who gave me the gold and answered, how do I know? I had friends in the Oregon National Guard were about to deploy mobilize in the Middle East. So he gave me some contact information, reached out to them fast.

00;11;19;08 - 00;11;41;07 Unknown For five months I had gone through my three class school. So now I'm a plumber. Pipefitter in a vertical contracting team, and I'm in the Middle East. So you were intentional. I like it taking initiative, doing all those things that we're known for. So how did that go? I mean, was it was it as you expected? Definitely. I learned a lot.

00;11;41;10 - 00;12;05;28 Unknown It was an experience for sure. The first month that I finally it's the interstate transfer is, when you move from state to state in the guard. So asked is the abbreviation. I said Oregon. At first, you already had to face adversity. The company commander was like, hey, deployment is canceled. I was like, hold up. I spent three months trying to get here.

00;12;06;04 - 00;12;23;23 Unknown Now that I'm here, and I put school on pause, I've been out of school also for three months. You're telling me it's canceled so that long? It was an eight hour drive. No drilling on the Oregon coast, seaside area. Camp Alia and I was going to school in Pullman, Washington. So that whole eight hours back home, me and my buddy, and he was making no money because of the commute.

00;12;23;26 - 00;12;46;22 Unknown We were just disbelief. It was be quite as right that I've ever had experience. So I was like, what? What do I what I do now, like my plan is gone, right? So one of my E-4 buddies at the time from the Oregon National Guard, organic, his dad was lieutenant colonel within the Engineer Battalion. He shot me a message a week later and say, hey, my dad said, relax, something's coming down the pipeline.

00;12;46;25 - 00;13;10;06 Unknown I was like, what are you talking about? The original mission was to go into Afghanistan and help, you know, a downgrade and, close up some bases. So within a month, we have a new mission. We're going to Kuwait to help the process, reconstructing and building more transient billeting. So I was like, well, not the deployment I wanted, not a true combat experience.

00;13;10;09 - 00;13;31;23 Unknown I took it for what it was. Again, I tell people all the time, deployment isn't all about combat. It's about how you can adapt to the adversity and the problems you faced while on deployment. So I was like that. This is a good second job. You know, option. And fast forward, I'm in Kuwait three months later in November, I'm in Iraq.

00;13;31;24 - 00;13;59;28 Unknown I'm one of the first hundred soldiers back into Iraq to help combat ISIS in 2014. So that was, that experience definitely learned a lot being the first hundred in compared to deployments nowadays where there's sirens and warm towers, allowing you to, you know, find deep cover, there's nothing of that. When I was there the first time, right, it was just, oh, I think that was, that was incoming.

00;14;00;02 - 00;14;25;09 Unknown Learned a lot. I was just Lauren listed E-4 at the time. The detachment I got pushed into Iraq, we were supporting the active duty training. The, local Iraqis to help fight ISIS. So we built everything from building, places for soldiers to live, like many soldiers as well of ourselves. Offices, shoot houses, silhouettes where they practice a train on, as well as anything that they can think of.

00;14;25;16 - 00;14;42;24 Unknown We were we were working as much as we could as long as we had daylight. We had a warehouse. We're able to build things, prefab things, because the easiest way to do, a lot of the operations. And how long do you end up staying? Total deployment was nine months. I spent about four months of it in Iraq.

00;14;42;26 - 00;15;06;15 Unknown We were able to reopen the airstrip. We bring in the Apaches and and drones to help out with the surveillance. So it was, great, great mission work there. A lot of great people, active duty and guard, met one of my future mentors on that deployment was actually an IPL. Now we're both officers and, we're essentially equals out and I seek them.

00;15;06;21 - 00;15;24;25 Unknown His name is Mark Mallow. A lot for for advice on how to progress my military career and, and his guidance in general. So then after that, you come back. That had to have been an ordeal, I would imagine. Then if you're if you're going from Washington to Oregon, try to find fulfill your goal that you're trying to achieve.

00;15;24;26 - 00;15;47;02 Unknown You know, it's nice to have the acquaintances. So how important was the networking? I mean, it was clear to me when you were talking about it, but did that give you an idea of how important networking really is? Yes. And of military civilian career just in your civilian life in general, networking is vital to being successful.

00;15;47;05 - 00;16;08;15 Unknown Just those opportunities that I've had all the opportunities and had throughout my military career has been due to networking. I tell people all the time, especially in the National Guard, since we are, I'd say, part time, right? For the most part, it's about driving your own career. No one's gonna help you meet the goals that you want as much as you are right?

00;16;08;18 - 00;16;32;05 Unknown If you want to transfer to a new unit, you want a different MOS, seek out those opportunities. Sometimes if your your lowest level is not helping you out, networking with the right people. Find a way to find those people right. Use that network that's built in the military and try to seek those opportunities, and then present a plan to your your team leader, to your leadership saying, hey, this is my goal.

00;16;32;05 - 00;17;07;21 Unknown This is where I want to go. And here's the contact information. I write down some of those first steps versus leaving it all in the hands of your leadership. Yeah, that's that's super sound advice. And I like how you weaved in. It's applicable anywhere, you know, not just in service but in life in general. The more that you can do on your own with diligence and, the research and the effort you put into it to help people not have to do it all, that's important because it can be, you know, we we often look at ourselves trying to help everybody, but we don't have enough time to be able to do that.

00;17;07;21 - 00;17;25;13 Unknown So it's it's it's critical that we can think about how we can nudge it along and do some of that pre-work ahead of time. So I like I like how you're setting that up. Did you stay with that unit as you came back or did you now switch? I did, so I'd stay with the unit for probably another six months.

00;17;25;13 - 00;17;55;00 Unknown That's where I finally, my, I became, a sergeant in the Army after Charlie. After that, the unit disbanded. They did a big reorg. So the reorg happened. We went from 150 plus soldiers down to 52. So we became a detachment, a utility detachment. So they gave me the option. Hey, did you want to, you know, go ahead and stay here during on the, on the Oregon coast, the commute was really long and I was like, oh, I'll hang out for a little bit.

00;17;55;03 - 00;18;20;29 Unknown But then they the opportunity arose for me to go to infantry school. So I was like, infantry. Oh, man. This this is it. All right. I'm I'm taking the opportunity. So now that follow me August. So about a year after I came back from that deployment, I went to the infantry school and then found a unit again, my readiness NCO at that time say, hey, here's a list of every infantry unit in Oregon.

00;18;21;01 - 00;18;41;25 Unknown Find a unit that has an opening and I'll facilitate the rest. So again, kind of did the legwork myself to find a unit that I felt comfortable with besides me, and thrown in to a random unit. And then at the right I replaced, I became an infantry man. How long that take that took the switching units within within the state?

00;18;41;25 - 00;18;58;14 Unknown It's relatively quick. It was about a month. Sometimes with the paperwork hasn't completed yet, you can simply just start drilling with them on the year. One week in a month. And, you're still on the books of your organic unit, but they allow you to split. Train is what they call it. The training was a different unit. I'm assuming.

00;18;58;14 - 00;19;20;22 Unknown Did you go? You didn't go back to boot camp. You went, but you went to ITE for infantry school. Yeah, so slightly different in the guard we have for class. We have our own, schoolhouses with some within the state, some, we had to go to other states. So Oregon actually has its own infantry school. It's an accelerated program for like, most MOS is, it's usually about two weeks long.

00;19;20;24 - 00;19;41;27 Unknown So I went to Eastern Oregon real close to home. And you went to LA or, until Oregon with the old Chemical depot, down in that area. Spent two weeks there in the middle of August, 100 plus degrees, walk in the lanes, surviving the heat, sweating constantly. Had people heat carry carrying regularly just because of the heat.

00;19;41;29 - 00;20;05;05 Unknown They weren't used to it. So because we not only do they train National Guard, but those National Guard school houses also had the ability to train Active-duty personnel as well. So we had a slight mix of in-state, out of state and active duty personnel going to that school house. Got it with yours that that puts me at 20 right around 2016 2016.

00;20;05;08 - 00;20;33;11 Unknown Okay. Yeah. From from there. So now you've got basically three or more choices that you've been in. Correct. And so how does that work now that you've got those skills developed. And then what what do you what do you do with that as an E-5. So I think not in just not just in the military, but being well-rounded and knowing different aspects of the organization on how they all, intertwine and work together is a huge benefit.

00;20;33;14 - 00;21;09;17 Unknown If you look at most leaders throughout any corporation, they weren't siloed into one department the entire time rank. They were those who saw the opportunities in different aspects, right? Whether it be, you know, med suite with Oracle or OCI with Oracle. Right. They they or the medical side now, they branched out. They've learned a lot. So that benefited me a lot within, you know, being a new E-5 because when it comes to planning things, not only do you have the mindset or did I have the mindset of infantrymen, but I also had the mindset of, okay, if something breaks down right, how do we fix it?

00;21;09;17 - 00;21;32;17 Unknown How do I get the maintenance people here? I already know kind of what the main insight is thinking about how to do that when on a construction side, we need, I think, Bill, I'm your guy. I can help you build whatever you need built or I know people because within the state we all work together. So when it comes to annual training, there will be times that we have the engineers embedded with us or multiple different maintenance platoons embedded with us.

00;21;32;17 - 00;22;04;15 Unknown So again, tying back in that networking, networking is huge. In the guard. I've been in so many units in the Oregon Guard that every time I go to a big gathering, I was like, oh my gosh, I haven't seen this guy in four years. But here we are again. It's it's been, it's very beneficial. And I say not just military but civilian side as well to, to keep that network open and to if you have the opportunity to try different fields out within, within your organization, be open to new opportunities.

00;22;04;18 - 00;22;26;06 Unknown Yeah. Well said. And you're right. And that is the nice thing about it also is the camaraderie. It's developed over the years. And so you you have those connections and relationships from the past. And to see somebody that you haven't seen in a while, it's a good feeling. Right? Definitely. And, the main reason why I've been in for so long, some people are jaded, even the National Guard.

00;22;26;06 - 00;22;43;10 Unknown It's when we get them on two weeks a year. They say two weeks a year. It's never two weeks a year. It's usually more than that, with schooling and progression, career progression. But the main reason I say is to the people, every, every unit I go, I meet someone that I know I will probably be in contact with the rest of my life.

00;22;43;13 - 00;23;07;00 Unknown That's awesome. At which point now at 2016, you're in E-5, you got a couple of mosses, you got the network down, you're going around to different units. What happens the next several years that get that gets you to I don't know, come to Oracle. Let's backtrack just slightly. I was, after that first placement went back to Scott College right about a year and a half left.

00;23;07;02 - 00;23;30;05 Unknown Due to that ROTC down lineup, graduation wise. You know, I graduated early from ROTC or graduate early from the university. I was like, well, I would just but after, if I still have the urge to become an officer of the OCS. So 2016, I graduate, I get my first civilian career working for the Department Navy there in key, Port Washington, just next to the Bangor Naval Base.

00;23;30;07 - 00;23;49;15 Unknown The database administrator there, went to school for management, for making systems. So sorry. Working there. I seem to have pride myself in both my student career and military career towards a bigger cause which is supporting the military in some sort of facet. Or the government even at Oracle and part of answer ops, which is the government cloud.

00;23;49;15 - 00;24;14;21 Unknown So, you know, always looking to support the bigger cause. So do that for a couple of years. Enjoy my time there. But there's a saying the government work can be slow depending on what department you're in. Right. And that was true. I was on a project. It was where it's basically their justification site for the Navy and Marines, specifically aviation, but expanded to other facets of the Navy and Marines.

00;24;14;24 - 00;24;35;25 Unknown I was there and we were just sustainment. We weren't developing anything new. So database administrator, just maintaining that human eye going. And I graduated college wanting to change the world. I was like, well, this isn't what I, you know, expected, but it's a good career we're now. They had perks as well, being government. They assisted my, progression into getting my masters.

00;24;35;25 - 00;25;00;05 Unknown So I got my MBA while working for them. And then other right between the MBA period when I got accepted to the program, I thought about becoming an officer and the Oregon National Guard again, so that that urge to serve in a at a greater aspect was reinvested into my life and decided to look at my options. And OCS was the quickest way to commission.

00;25;00;08 - 00;25;23;03 Unknown So commission. And then a year later, I'm at I'm still at the I'm in the Navy working there for me on that. See, that's underneath the department Navy and decided I'm a master's now looking into managerial positions both in my civilian career and my military career. How do I line those so that I'm in management in both of aspects?

00;25;23;06 - 00;25;42;27 Unknown And I looked at my career trajectory within the DoD and the Department Navy and realized that it's a slow process, especially on the West Coast. We don't have the benefit of, you know, an enormous amount the managerial positions, as they do on the East Coast. So I was like, well, let me see what the public sector has.

00;25;43;00 - 00;26;00;19 Unknown And I'm at this point about five years in to working for the department, Navy. And, you know, you got the pension lined up, you have everything lined up ready and all your ducks in a row looking at potential retirement and the benefits of it. And I was like, well, civilian life seems okay. Let me, let me like it.

00;26;00;20 - 00;26;19;24 Unknown Let me reach out to some recruiters. And in that process, one of the managers from Oracle reached out to me. But hey, your your resume, your LinkedIn profile seems to see what we're looking for. Would you be interested in interviewing at this point? I'd been through a lot of interviews, turned down a few offers, just that it wasn't what I was looking for.

00;26;19;26 - 00;26;37;11 Unknown And, talking more to the Oracle recruiter and the manager and learning about the the part of Oracle that was going to be working for, which was on tour ops, and supporting the military and the government in some facet say, okay, this is kind of closely aligned to what I do now. I think I can behind this mission.

00;26;37;11 - 00;27;00;20 Unknown So I understood the mission little bit and, and how, I impacted that and allowed troops and government personnel and entities to still do their, their job full time. It's like I think I think I can do this. Then I interviewed with some of the employees that were there still are Oracle, and a lot of them came from military background, which I know was another perk for me.

00;27;00;20 - 00;27;23;12 Unknown Right. Having that, similar mindset and similar experience creates those bonds. And the transfer. I figured the transfer would not be as drastic going from, you know, the DoD Department, Navy and military experience to the corporate world. If a lot of my coworkers had a similar experience, so on through UPS was a really good fit for me. And a good home.

00;27;23;14 - 00;27;48;19 Unknown And that's when I joined to in 20th April 2022, as I finally made it to our goal site Reliability engineer. That's a good story. You did a lot in between 2016 and 2022. Yeah, I again, I try to take advantage of everything. I've always been pretty strategic with my my progression. While at the Department of Navy, I also was in a one year long leadership program for next generation leadership.

00;27;48;21 - 00;28;11;24 Unknown Just trying to advance myself and gain those skills, put those skills in my, my, my toolbox. But that day that I do become a manager, that I am ready to to lead and serve those that are part of my team well. And that tracks because early on, that's what you were you were trying to do is, is commit to something that's going to give you the opportunity for growth and career development and things, those types of things.

00;28;11;24 - 00;28;31;23 Unknown And so I think at this point, if I'm doing the math right, so over the course of a good ten years, give or take years, probably more close to 11, you were sniffing out the opportunities early on. Not only what was in front of you, but you were trying to identify a pathway that allows you to see a couple moves ahead that you can grow into.

00;28;31;24 - 00;28;58;23 Unknown Is that pretty accurate? Definitely. Yep. Every every time I made it to that next, the next step where I met my next goal, I was looking forward to the next time. Some people say 2020. The Covid year was a really bad year for a lot of people. I like to say that's probably one of my favorite years because I was tackling working full time, 40 hours plus a week, doing that, extensive leadership program through work, and graduated from OCS all at the same time.

00;28;58;25 - 00;29;15;28 Unknown So to me, December of 2020 was one of the best moments of my life. I had my freedom back. I was able to relax, something to do things on the weekends, the limited things that we were able to do because of the Covid. Yeah, it was it was a good year for me and then it opened up a lot of doors after that.

00;29;16;01 - 00;29;41;24 Unknown Yeah, it sounds like it. And congratulations on that, man. I, I appreciate the tenacity that you have in the drive and then putting it into action. I mean, that's obviously is one of the qualities that is common amongst, our community. But it you still appreciate it when you see it. Thank you. Yeah, you bet up to that point and, you know, maybe a couple weeks or a couple months inside of Oracle, you know, I'm making an assumption.

00;29;41;24 - 00;30;03;28 Unknown But did anything appear to be uniquely different than any place that you've been before? And as you, as you started to to learn more about the team you were on here, definitely coming over to Oracle the first few months, there's a lot of new technologies that I had to learn. I had been with the department maybe for quite some time and nothing real cutting edge at that time.

00;30;03;28 - 00;30;27;23 Unknown So I had a lot. Is is the big learning curve technically, especially with migrating to the cloud. When I first graduated college, the cloud was still relatively new. I've heard it at AWS, but at that point, Oracle Cloud was in a in its infancy. So it was a good learning curve. But I came in, I try to network with all my colleagues, had been there for a while.

00;30;27;26 - 00;30;46;16 Unknown I'd come in and, I got the moment I got access to the skiff. I was in there trying to learn what they're doing, looking like looking over the shoulder, just trying to grasp as much as I can grasp. Become a sponge, as they say. I just want to know how everything work and what I can do to get to be better and more prepared.

00;30;46;16 - 00;31;09;01 Unknown Once my clearance was fully approved and I can get hands on keyboard, was there, was there any concerns from your side on going into a full time role here and still serving in the guard a little bit? I did some research. Of course. That's one of the big things I did when I was looking to go into the surveying world is the military benefits.

00;31;09;03 - 00;31;37;00 Unknown And surprisingly, Oracle has one of the better programs for military personnel that are currently serving in the guard reserve. They allow us to do our annual training. Downy hiccup I've been since my time with Oracle. I've actually been away quite a bit for the military. I had to go to Basic Ops, the leadership course for the engineers, which was roughly six months, as well as some additional training, and they've been more than accepting and willing to work with me.

00;31;37;03 - 00;32;15;05 Unknown They understand the difficulties. And again, being part of on tour ops, where most people are, most managers are prior service. So I've worked with people for fire service. They know the the process, right. They know that sometimes they're called upon to do something greater than yourself. That you have no control over. You know, they're always there to help facilitate that and help me out with any of the HR issues that I that that arise from being, you know, acclimated to put on to the bench and then coming back in and being reintegrated into the corporation more than willing to work with me, around my schedule within the military.

00;32;15;08 - 00;32;53;16 Unknown And again, I just let them know ahead of time what, what my yearbooks like and if any of those dates will impact my my time in office. Yeah. I mean, sounds like a strong team that that not only is aware through. Well, one understanding what, what, the, the support that's in place that Oracle provides, but also just the, the firsthand understanding of what it's like to to hold the obligation of service and then merging the two together, the knowledge of the processes and the policies as well as the, the the process of what it's what what happens when a unit is needing to call you, either for your training or any other

00;32;53;16 - 00;33;11;00 Unknown deployments that may come up. That's that's great to hear. So after that, because now it's, it's three years still the same. You still have the same feeling as when you started. Do you talk a little bit about being activated and, then short notice of things right within the military that, everyone who served is familiar with.

00;33;11;03 - 00;33;27;24 Unknown I wanted to give Scott a shout out the first. You know, I broke the bad news to him. Hey, there's some training that's coming up that I have to go away for a little bit. I was just informed, you know, with less than a month notice, and the first thing wasn't. Hey, out, like, man, it's a bummer.

00;33;27;24 - 00;33;49;04 Unknown We're going to. We really need you here. It was. Hey, how's how's the family taking it? Right? He empathize with the situation and as good leaders do, I really appreciated that. And I just wanted to thank him for that. And then we kind of talked about how that's going to affect my time at Oracle. And then, what the next steps are for me coming back.

00;33;49;06 - 00;34;07;20 Unknown That's solid. I mean, that should be, you know, you'd like to believe that everybody's going to be able to have that type of response where puts the concern back on you and, and the care that needs to happen from that. Get your mind right, taking care of the the priorities in your life. And of course, the company is a concern.

00;34;07;20 - 00;34;34;11 Unknown And the obviously the customers and what we have to do here. But there's a balance in the prioritization comes through the the initial response. And so I'm glad to hear that that was the case. Yeah. And then to touch back to do I still have the same billing I do. Oracle's been very helpful throughout this process, allowing me to serve both sides and progress in both my career, military and civilian, with Oracle.

00;34;34;13 - 00;34;55;21 Unknown And, yeah, I still get Scott reaching out occasionally. Hey, does want to make sure everything's going good with the service as well as here at Oracle and making sure that I have a plan to progress. And three years and still loving it. And you're listening. I know you can't see it, but he's got a smile, Jesse smiling when he says this.

00;34;55;21 - 00;35;21;16 Unknown You can kind of just you can feel it as you're as you're listening to it. So I believe it. What now? You're three years in, you're always looking ahead for something else that allows you to know what are you going to be on for growth? What what aspirations do you have at this point? So within Oracle, the goal would be eventually to land a managerial position.

00;35;21;18 - 00;35;39;21 Unknown And that's that's been kind of my dream for the last couple of years on the human side. Got my MBA thinking about how the system, you know, the progression naturally there's there may be some opportunities in the near future. I do express my, you know, my wants. So I know it's been it's been heard and people are listening.

00;35;39;21 - 00;36;03;22 Unknown So one day I'll be there. And then on the military side, I'm looking at company command here within the next year. So that's that's another big step. And any officers, especially army officers time is, leading an entire company, planning the future for that company. What what training looks like, if there's any missions coming up, as in the guard we have, you know, we serve two missions.

00;36;03;22 - 00;36;30;17 Unknown We serve our state and our and our nation. And, we are frequently called upon for both. So making sure that we're ready to assist in both facets, whether it's national level, overseas deployment or within the state, because the Oregon and Washington, whatever island fires. So that comes about every year yet to maintain that certification and, and, make sure you're ready to answer any sort of natural disaster or any state need.

00;36;30;20 - 00;36;51;27 Unknown And so which state is the unit in that you're serving now? So I'm still in the Oregon National Guard. Again, I touched a base earlier about people right. Me being in the Oregon Guard for that deployment, I met a lot of people. And after we were dismantled, we we all went in different ways, different units. And I come back to running into them occasionally.

00;36;52;00 - 00;37;11;12 Unknown They're all the other units that I've been a part of. And the reason I'm still in the Oregon garden, commuting up to six hours once a month for drill is the people you know, I've made those bonds, and that's why I'm still driving to get down there and to work with those people and, good rapport. So I'm out of Oregon.

00;37;11;14 - 00;37;38;20 Unknown Got it solid team. Right team. Yes. Devin. All right. Jesse, any any final thoughts for anybody listening that you want anybody to hear if you're a service member and you're not part of Maven, come join Maven. Maven doing great things. Just, one big thing that I love Maven does. I love being physical. Physical activity is one of my hobbies.

00;37;38;23 - 00;37;59;03 Unknown So the Travis Manning Foundation right to the 29 was the chat as many and what I was, a gym host here recently. So I got a bunch of my military buddies, over the weekend, and, we had a good turnout, and we supported the Manning Foundation also back in, for 911, they did. The Rock also had a group of military people, and I, we can do that.

00;37;59;03 - 00;38;26;00 Unknown So, there's a lot of opportunities within Maven at Oracle to progress the career network. Again. Networking. Right. It's been the underlying theme of this, this interview. So consider network whether it's within Maven or just in Oracle itself, if you're a reservist in the National Guard and you're worried about your career progression, both, an oracle and a military, I'd say don't be too, too worried about it.

00;38;26;02 - 00;38;49;11 Unknown Oracle has a good program in place to assist us to move forward in both sides. Just make sure you talk to both leadership, military and civilian, to get a better understanding of how that looks so they can assist you in any way that's needed. And if you're a veteran who is no longer serving here at in Oracle and part of Maven, and you're interested in joining the Oregon National Guard, let me know.

00;38;49;14 - 00;39;09;09 Unknown We have, low recruitment numbers at this time, but we do this cool of being called guard for a day where you come out and relive your experience as a service member. And usually we make sure those days are when you do something fun, like white wine, helicopter style. All right. I'm not even mad at you. That was that was not shameless at all.

00;39;09;09 - 00;39;25;24 Unknown And for for the Maven plug. I didn't ask him to do it. He did it on his own. And then again, he's smiling. You can. You can feel the smile through years as you're listening. All right, Jesse, well appreciate you. Thanks for taking a minute. I know it was last minute and you made it happen. Very grateful for you and your service.

00;39;25;24 - 00;39;47;16 Unknown And I speak on behalf of all of us. We are thankful for everything that you're doing and anybody else that's out there in the reserve guard serving and going on your temporary duty, whatever. It's a deployment or training or anything like that, you know, always keep moving forward. So appreciate you. We'll look forward to seeing you soon. And next time we're in Seattle, we'll get together and have some coffee and maybe go for a run.

00;39;47;18 - 00;40;08;04 Unknown Definitely, yeah. Do you have any? If anyone has questions about how the, you know, being activated and working at Oracle, you know, feel free to reach out to me on, on the Oracle email and then, LinkedIn, if they want to talk about how reservists and guard life interacts with Oracle. Absolutely. So I'll put their contact information for our LinkedIn.

00;40;08;04 - 00;40;23;15 Unknown And then any other information you want to share offline, you can send it over and I'll put it in the podcast description so they can reach out if there's any more questions Chris. All righty one. Keep moving forward.

We explore Pat's journey, rooted in strong family influence and an innate drive to pursue her goals without hesitation. Pat opens up about her path to self-discovery, shaped by a deep sense of self-awareness and an unrelenting competitive edge that pushes her to rise above every challenge she faces. Pat highlights the value of thoughtful observation—knowing when to pause, evaluate, and listen before speaking or acting. Whether you're navigating a career pivot or working to better understand your own capabilities, Pat's insights will inspire you to think more deeply about identity, preparation, and how to effectively translate your existing skills into new opportunities. She encourages others to research what's required for the next role, embrace continual learning, and take bold steps toward their goals with clarity and confidence. https://www.linkedin.com/in/patsmth/ https://www.oracle.com/veterans/ ----------------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript:

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;33;04 Unknown You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by Pat Smith, Oracle principal security engineer and Army veteran, where we explore Pat's journey rooted in strong family influence and an innate drive to pursue her goals without hesitation.

00;00;33;08 - 00;00;56;28 Unknown Pat opens up about her path to self-discovery. Shaped by a deep sense of self-awareness and unrelenting competitive edge that pushes her to rise above every challenge she faces. Grounded in possibility and resilience, Pat highlights the value of thoughtful observation, knowing when to pause, evaluate, and listen before speaking or acting. Her ability to take on tough, high stakes tasks reflects a rare combination of courage, adaptability and solution oriented thinking.

00;00;56;28 - 00;01;18;07 Unknown Pat doesn't shy away from discomfort. Instead, she leans into it, earning the trust of those around her by demonstrating competence, reliability, and strong commitment to results. Whether you're navigating a career pivot or working to better understand your own capabilities, Pat's insights will inspire you to think more deeply about identity, preparation and how to effectively translate your existing skills into new opportunities.

00;01;18;07 - 00;01;36;11 Unknown She encourages others to research what's required for the next role, embrace continual learning and take bold steps towards their goals with clarity and confidence. This episode is a must listen for anyone who wants to lead with purpose, grow through challenge and be recognized as someone who delivers real impact. We have all we need to become the person we want to be.

00;01;36;11 - 00;01;55;16 Unknown Let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. Pat's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn. Good morning Pat. How's it going?

00;01;55;18 - 00;02;16;24 Unknown Good morning. Going great. How about yourself? I'm doing all right. Thanks. Happy Monday. So funny thing, people say that. What do you think people say? Happy Monday. I don't know, because Monday everybody usually dreaded after the weekend. Right. Yeah. They want their weekend to be a little longer. A little bit longer. Yeah. So. So we talk about the weekends and coming to work.

00;02;16;25 - 00;02;48;01 Unknown You know we're going to talk a little bit about you and then what you do. And before we started recording for everybody out there, I asked Pat how it was going. And I guess the Monday already started. So there's a lot of a lot of things going on already. And it's interesting if you, as you hear Pat talk about her, not only your experiences here at Oracle, what she does, and you probably understand how things keep moving and, what we do for our customers and for the for the company and supporting the effort of what whatever the collective organizations do.

00;02;48;03 - 00;03;07;17 Unknown It'll be clear. So. But before we get into all of that, Pat, would you tell us a little bit about Pat? Good morning everyone. My name is Pat Smith. I've been an Oracle roughly three years. I am former military Army go Army storm. I served in the Army and an army reserve as well. I went to Germany.

00;03;07;18 - 00;03;30;03 Unknown I'm in a different places. I ended up deploying to Southwest Asia as well. And, once I got out of the military, I started working for the Department of Defense. I work for DoD. I've, been a member of Homeland Security for. I work for U.S. cert, and I also work for the, FBI. Before retiring from the FBI.

00;03;30;03 - 00;03;53;22 Unknown I go on into the civilian sector. Boom there. In a nutshell, all right, all, have a good day. No thanks for that. And so you've done a lot. And so for all of us out there, sometimes I learn things because I, I would like to have, the, the guest share for the first time some of their experiences.

00;03;53;22 - 00;04;14;23 Unknown And so some of these things I'm learning for the first time. So let's, let's talk about, why you joined and, you know, wherever you grew up, in kind of the circumstances you found yourself in to find yourself in, to be able to, you know, planned on, I think I'll join the service in why Army? So, I came from a, military family.

00;04;14;23 - 00;04;33;28 Unknown I guess you could say my father was Air Force. I I'm the youngest of six, and all my brothers and sisters had gone into the military. Some were officers, some were enlisted, and I graduate. I was in high school, and I was like, well, to get some little extra money over the summertime, I'll go into the reserves.

00;04;33;28 - 00;04;50;13 Unknown It's a couple hundred dollars for a weekend out of a month, you know, to go to drill and I'll have something in my pocket. So for me, it was just like, okay, and then it'll teach me the discipline and my thing about discipline and knowing how to do stuff on my own, transitioning from being a high school student.

00;04;50;15 - 00;05;11;20 Unknown So eventually having to be out there on my own in college. So I went into the reserves. When I was in, 11th grade, my mom had to sign because I was too young to sign for myself. I was underage, and, I went under what they called deferred entry. So one year I did basic training. And the next year, when I was a senior, after my senior year, I did my ATC training.

00;05;11;22 - 00;05;36;03 Unknown So I did that for I was in the reserves for about four years. I went I went to Louisiana Tech University, where I majored in biomedical engineering. I stayed in in college through college, and then I'm from Louisiana, and I was like, okay, I want to get out. I want to see, I want to travel and I don't want to pay for, but I want to be able to still be able to maintain a lifestyle and take care of myself and not have to call home.

00;05;36;03 - 00;06;01;24 Unknown Mommy, daddy, can you send me money? So I was like, well, most family I can go travel for a couple of years, do what I want to do and come on. So that's what I do. I got into the Army, I enjoyed the Army. The Army was a great experience. It taught me a lot. Definitely discipline, definitely taught me a view of dealing with a lot of different people from different places, different personalities, which was really a very good experience for me.

00;06;01;26 - 00;06;26;08 Unknown And after a while I ended up staying. I ended up getting married, having two kids and going out. Not for the honeymoon, I'm guessing now, and off and on and 11th grade. How was that? How was that experience on campus in high school when you chose to do that? And was it common in the high school that you were you were going to to where other kids were were choosing that?

00;06;26;10 - 00;06;42;20 Unknown I didn't know anybody personally that had that had gone into the reserves. I just checked into it. I thought about it. I check into it. Like I said, coming from a lot of my brothers and all my brothers and sisters being in and my father being in, I was like, hey, it doesn't seem too bad. It seems like a good benefit.

00;06;42;20 - 00;07;02;23 Unknown And plus I would get the money for to help out with my college education as well. So it wasn't intimidated to be the youngest person there, one of the youngest people there walking into basic training, first time really being by myself where there's no family member with me, having to go out there in the world and listen and do all this stuff, it was an intimidating.

00;07;02;23 - 00;07;21;09 Unknown But once I got into the flow of everything and understanding, I really enjoyed it. Got it. And how was how was it breaking it up and over the, the summers to, to go to boot camp and then it, how did that did you learn anything from the first time you went in and then when you went to it?

00;07;21;11 - 00;07;40;10 Unknown I think that session, it made it a to me. It made it a little bit better because I got that chance to kind of like decompress from the intensity of being in boot camp. And, you know, all the high energy you have to run to get places faster. Got to be here on time and all that structure and just all the little basic training is a little intense.

00;07;40;12 - 00;08;00;03 Unknown And then having that time to go back, relax, reset, going to drills still during that year on and then go on to I, I t was a little bit with way easier to me and it wasn't the physical aspect. Basic training that I found to be, you know, stressful because I'd always like, ran track, play basketball.

00;08;00;03 - 00;08;16;26 Unknown I was already a athletic person. So the physical part wasn't me. It was just getting used to the structure. And you have to be here on time. If you all the time you're late. So you have to beat everybody 15 minutes early. You have to make sure, you know, and the rushed nature of things and the precision of things getting used to that.

00;08;16;26 - 00;08;37;20 Unknown But once I locked in, I was good. So when I went to I t I didn't, I had the time to okay, I got this. I had everything organized in my mind how I knew was going to be. So it flowed really easy. Got it. So you slid in there that you were an athlete. How did how did that competitive nature contribute to the ease as you're going through?

00;08;37;22 - 00;08;52;28 Unknown Not only that, but even after that, how did that contribute to the choices you've made? I always want to be at the front of the line. I was not going to let anybody outrun me. Got it? I had the, I always shot to be okay. I want to be. If I'm not number one, I'm going to be in the top five.

00;08;52;28 - 00;09;12;09 Unknown I want to be at the top of the list. I want to, and but that's. That was me even before I went into the middle there just kind of have a competitive spirit and more so not with other people, but to outdo myself if I did, if I did a certain score one time, okay, we're going to have to work to do better the next step, the next time and to just constantly improve.

00;09;12;09 - 00;09;35;29 Unknown And I, I take that into just everyday life. I want one of the things I always tell my kids is I want to be better today than I was yesterday. Every day. And it doesn't have to be. Everybody thinks when you say something like that, it has to be something groundbreaking or something like life changes. No. If you learn a new skill, if you learn something about your job that you didn't know yesterday, you've improved.

00;09;36;01 - 00;09;55;01 Unknown If you learn a new vocabulary word that you didn't know yesterday, you've made some type of progress. But just make sure that you're progressing in some way every day to improve upon yourself and not let yourself just stay stagnant and get complacent with and comfortable with where you are. That I like that, that that's a hard one because you you nailed it.

00;09;55;04 - 00;10;15;04 Unknown You know, a lot of times people think they got to go big to to have that feeling of, of progress or success or an achievement. And you're right, the little things and I'm, I appreciate your perspective on that because it is sometimes misguiding. And then we, you know, might hesitate. Everybody thinks that they have to they think they have to change the world.

00;10;15;04 - 00;10;35;22 Unknown But you can change the world one step at a time. That's like the saying they always say you eat an elephant one step at a time, and all the little steps add up to that monumental thing and lead you to, towards that goal that you want one step at a time. Yeah, I like that. So we're going to put a pin in that one too because we'll come back to that okay.

00;10;35;25 - 00;10;59;15 Unknown Because because it is it is it is a mindset. And somewhat of sometimes a conflict for for those that get used to having to achieve even that at some point, the conditioning of even the little things that build up the attention to detail. And, you know, if it's taken out of context of what you're trying to achieve for goals, life goals, professional goals, career goals, educational goals, whatever it is, you could there could be a misstep.

00;10;59;17 - 00;11;23;03 Unknown Yeah. So, so we'll come back to that. So biomedical engineering. Yes. Okay. I had a minor. Computer science. That's amazing. What, what why that what was was there anything leading up to that that get. You had the curiosity? I was a nerd at heart. I got my first home computer. I'm not going to say what it is because I'll date myself.

00;11;23;06 - 00;11;51;14 Unknown I got my first computer at home. Computer. And I fell in love. And I just became all the type of nerdy kid, the popular little nerdy kid that I love computers, I love technology. Ever since I got my first computer and biomedical engineering, I became really. I wanted to help people with computers, and I thought medical would be a great place to help people, to help engineer something that could save somebody's life or make their lives better.

00;11;51;22 - 00;12;25;11 Unknown So that's why I chose it. Got it. Any specific circumstance that had you specifically planned on that, that that you envisioned then and then chose that path, or was it just a general focus area that somehow you were influenced by? I had, I had one of my grandparents killed. They started to fail and I started thinking about people that have things like kidney failure and heart failure and have to be on these different types of like, maybe Dallas machines or different machines that will help them to improve their lives.

00;12;25;11 - 00;12;52;18 Unknown And so that kind of like got me to start thinking, I would love to be a part of people who could engineer stuff like that, to be able to help people to better their lives or correct conditions, possibly that they ran into. Got it. All right. Moving through this, because you laid down a lot. You so so you graduate college and then, help us see where your your mind's at.

00;12;52;18 - 00;13;13;24 Unknown Now, what direction are you pointing at that at that time, Burnout from education a little bit. Being under the guns with such an intense class schedule and just wanted to take the time out, and I wanted to travel, see the world. And I didn't want to pay for it. That's the bottom line. I don't want to pay for it.

00;13;13;26 - 00;13;36;07 Unknown So what job could I get at such a young age that I could go different places and I'll pay for the military? And so I said, okay, the military is great. Out is I didn't see any negative to being in the military because as long as you think with an open mind and don't put yourself in a box, you can turn stuff to your advantage.

00;13;36;10 - 00;13;57;29 Unknown And to me, the military had all the advantages of things that I want, I would have I will get paid. I will have a place to stay that I don't have to pay for. In the barracks, I get food, I stay in shape because I have to run every morning and I go to different countries. I can go to another country, I go to Germany, I can go to Korea, I can go to different places.

00;13;58;02 - 00;14;18;05 Unknown And so it was just it was just college burnout. Yeah. That's a combination I guess is like, well, yeah. So let's all expense paid for a career choice. Maybe. Exactly. What most did you end up? I ended up going and, math. And I ended up going into computers. Okay. When I was in the military and working in signal.

00;14;18;08 - 00;14;35;13 Unknown And so I ended up being the ESL. So when I found out, okay, you went to college for this. Okay. Well, you're going to be a computer person. So I was always doing everything, you know, the the person in the room when you mess up your stuff for your computer. Well, I can't get this done making sure before they call the information system cybersecurity, shall I say, is the new term.

00;14;35;16 - 00;14;54;08 Unknown It was information system security, where you secure it, make sure everything was secure via scans of all the systems going around, making sure all the systems of update. And then once 911 hit, the big cyber word came out. I was like, well, we were doing that before cyber became the buzzword, but now that's the buzzword for it.

00;14;54;08 - 00;15;13;17 Unknown So I've been so I'm kind of dating myself, but, yeah, I was doing it before with the big cyber word. Got it. So I'll help you with the dating yourself and I'll, I'll get in front of that for you. So I remember when I was at Fort Hood, the there are our tech and I forgot his name.

00;15;13;17 - 00;15;37;04 Unknown But our tech for at the time where I was working, he had access to windows. Oh yeah. Yeah. And so the IBM PC, something or other. 386 yeah. That thing with the sloppy disks. Right. So yeah. I, you know, I needed to work and I wanted to work from home and I had one and it, he sit here and he gave me it, but he didn't know what kind of computer I had, but.

00;15;37;04 - 00;15;59;16 Unknown So it was a shot in the dark. It. I literally stayed up, I don't know, 12 hours trying to install that on, on the machine. I never I was never successful because I didn't understand what was going on, but right told me what to do. So yeah, I remember those days when you had, software, hardware, sometimes incompatible issues where you just think it should work and you hoped it would, and sometimes it it didn't do as you did.

00;15;59;23 - 00;16;25;29 Unknown Exactly. Yeah, but that's the fun stuff. Figuring it out, making it work. Absolutely, absolutely. But you have to have the background and I guess the curiosity, like you did right? Okay. So how long how long were you in the Army? Ten years. Ten years. I end up getting out after a few years after my deployment, I came back with a condition that was that I got while I was over there.

00;16;26;01 - 00;16;45;24 Unknown And I ended up being medical out because I couldn't stay, and not because I didn't want to, but because my condition wouldn't allow, was that sorry to hear that? Was that that must have been a conflict. I mean, because you just said you didn't you didn't necessarily want to get out, but you had to get out. So how did that how did that for you?

00;16;45;26 - 00;17;03;06 Unknown It was hard because I felt like I didn't end on my terms. And I'm one of those people. I want to end it on my terms, if at all possible. And it was hard, but then it was the understanding where I had acquired a life threatening situation where just because of the medication I took, made me ineligible to stay in.

00;17;03;11 - 00;17;25;01 Unknown So there was I really had no option to stay in because the medication that would save my life made me ineligible to stay in the military. Well, I can't imagine it was a hard adjustment just knowing that, okay, you're dealing with something that's a big deal. So what I what happened? I ended up coming back with a it's a blood disorder and I just throw random blood clots at any time.

00;17;25;01 - 00;17;47;26 Unknown I can be okay one minute and then I can just get a random blood clot anywhere. And because I had to be on blood thinning medication, it's automatically disqualifier for me. At that time in the military, it was hard dealing with because you're dealing with multiple things, you're dealing with coming back from war. You're dealing with coming back and finding out you have a medical condition that now impacts you for the rest of your life.

00;17;47;29 - 00;18;06;25 Unknown And then you're told that you can't stay in and do your job. So it was a lot to deal with, a lot of disappointment that I had to go through and deal with, amongst other things. Not, like I said, not getting out on my own terms. Okay, Pat, what are you going to do now? How how am I going to manage this disorder when I get out and everything?

00;18;06;27 - 00;18;25;23 Unknown But then I just had, after Phyllis, I guess. Sorry for myself for a smart, had to say. Okay. What's best for you, what's best for your family, what's best for your kids, and how are you going to make the most out of this situation? Because it's easy to lay down and give up. But I'm not a quitter.

00;18;25;23 - 00;18;51;06 Unknown So I fought and I found my path. And then let me do Oracle, I love it. It's somewhat of a conflict because it's it's, you know. So how how are you how's the fight going now? The fight has actually gone do it. I've actually been, my condition is actually really stabilized a lot. So now I don't have as much battles because initially I was in the hospital at least 2 or 3 times a year.

00;18;51;09 - 00;19;08;26 Unknown For extended stays because of it. And I almost died a couple of times, but I fought through. But now I'm in a more stable, the more the most stable, honestly, I've ever been since I've had the condition, which I'm thankful to God for. So everything is actually going really well right now. It's good.

00;19;08;26 - 00;19;18;03 Unknown Dear. Good to hear. I'm glad to have you here. Thank you. Glad I'm still here.

00;19;18;05 - 00;19;47;19 Unknown All right. Maybe for a long time. Yeah. Yes, yes. Here's to that. Okay. So then, so then you get out and now you've, you worked and you talked about three organizations Homeland security, U.S cert and FBI. So let's let's listen to what you what you did. So once I got out I actually the crazy thing about it is I was actually flying home when the Twin Towers that I was in Germany, that's where I got out.

00;19;47;19 - 00;20;09;03 Unknown I was in Germany, were scared to fly home on 911, and we got the news, and I was in the, hotel on base on Rahman Air Base. And, we saw it hit and we were out processing. So we found out that all the airlines were on the ground. The only one that they would let fly back into the United States was Lufthansa.

00;20;09;06 - 00;20;32;23 Unknown And we managed to get on that flight the next day in the chaotic airport, which was filled with everybody from the United States, seemed like they were trying to get home. And I remember being in the airport with my husband and my two kids who were about to turn one, and one was three at this airport attendant. She was like, hold out, hold my hand and don't let go.

00;20;32;23 - 00;20;50;10 Unknown I'll get you through the crowd because you have small kids. And she literally got us through those hundreds and hundreds of people, that car people, and got us to where we could check in so we would be sure to make the flight. So I definitely I'm grateful to her for doing that. And then we kissed the ground when we got back home.

00;20;50;12 - 00;21;10;06 Unknown Oh yeah. And then after that I went to, we're stationed in Hawaii. So I went to Hawaii, where we were at school for our airbase. I got a job working as a federal employee on school for avarice. I started out in chief for, working for the lieutenant colonel there. And then I went to G6 and eventually to G2.

00;21;10;08 - 00;21;33;14 Unknown I worked on Schofield for a while that I moved to, Fort Shafter, where I work with, GCS Global Command and Control Systems for a few years. And then we moved, to Fort Gordon, Georgia, and I worked at the Wounded Warrior Division that they had just, stood up, work there. And then we were doing another move to Virginia.

00;21;33;17 - 00;22;01;02 Unknown So I said, okay, I saw some DHS jobs. I said, okay, I'm applying. I don't know if I'm a get in, I'll apply. So I pay off the NHS and miraculously, before I left Fort Gordon already had an interview to go into Homeland Security and get the job with U.S. cert. But in between this time, I had an unfortunate medical incident that almost took my life, and I was in the hospital for a long time, and I physically, I had a blood clot that was so catastrophic I couldn't walk.

00;22;01;02 - 00;22;19;13 Unknown When I got out of the hospital, I physically couldn't walk, so it took me a while to go from not being able to walk to walking with a walker to a pain, to eventually rehabbing myself. And that happened over probably like a year and a half time where I couldn't just walk on my own. I got to Homeland Security.

00;22;19;13 - 00;22;36;17 Unknown I wanted to U.S. cert. I was on their detection division, so we did things like write the scripts and everything that went into the sensors. We monitor things around the world. I can't say too much about what it was. And when the new center that they had opened for Homeland Security, I actually got to meet Janet Reno myself.

00;22;36;19 - 00;22;59;07 Unknown But it's okay. All right. Janet Reno and President Obama actually came to the facilities when we did the ribbon cutting and everything. So that was a great experience. I work there and for I was there for, I think for like five years and DHS for like five years. And one day I was, came home and I got a call and, he said, this is Charles Gibson from FBI.

00;22;59;07 - 00;23;13;29 Unknown And I was like, stop, right, call on me. I thought it was a prank call because I had never applied for a job at FBI. So I didn't understand how they got my information. And while I was getting a call. So I thought it was a joke. And he was like, no, I'm serious, I'm not joking. And I was like, okay.

00;23;14;02 - 00;23;41;03 Unknown And then he said, I have a job that I think you'd be wonderful for. Are you interested? And I said, oh, I'm saying to myself, of course, is the FBI. Most people would love to get it. So I went in and I interviewed and I stayed at the FBI for about four years at the FBI, worked on the, Cloud First project, working with a lot of cloud vendors to help FBI move their things into the cloud and become more cloud friendly.

00;23;41;09 - 00;24;04;23 Unknown I was over I actually wrote there, cloud security guy and help, for FBI and help wrote some stuff for the secret working, on the, secret site on the cloud and things as well for them. So a lot of, regulations, documentations, a lot of the cyber, Tiger teams like that did the, high three for In the Cloud.

00;24;04;24 - 00;24;32;23 Unknown I was on that Tiger team that produced those high three, requirements. And then, after that was done, that was, that project took a while, a few years because it was big getting them in. And then I said, okay, I want to go see what the civilian sector has to offer. I don't necessarily have to get totally away from government, but I want to work for a civilian company because with the military, everybody knows everything is a little bit more restrictive on what you can and a little less innovative in some ways, not less innovative.

00;24;32;23 - 00;24;56;15 Unknown But there's just more tape for we Go too deep is what's high three. So they're the standards for the FedRAMP. The high three standards are standards that have to be met in order for a cloud service provider to be able to process classified government documents on the system within that cloud. Got it. Did you ever find out how your name got in front of the FBI agent?

00;24;56;15 - 00;25;17;07 Unknown According to this day, I don't know why you didn't ask. They didn't tell me, okay? They didn't tell me. That's great. Yeah. I mean, your brand obviously preceded you at that point or somebody or somebody spoke it somewhere. So yeah, it ended up there. So I mean, you just said it and that's a good one. So it stood out to me.

00;25;17;07 - 00;25;58;18 Unknown So as you're working through the choices you're making and the effort you're putting in and the results that are the outcomes that have occurred based off of what you were doing, how was that working as far as building a reputation, building your brand, getting your name to be recognized as somebody that will be top of mind when they have an open position and they call you, did it ever occur to you, while you were making the choices and doing these jobs, performance, taking on the difficult projects that everybody goes away from seeing, seeing the whole I try to see the whole picture and see what the holes are in it.

00;25;58;20 - 00;26;20;13 Unknown So for instance, like when I went to FBI and I walked in, they had the first project that President Obama had signed for federal organizations going to for almost two years. But because it was so huge, nobody, nobody either wanted to or they didn't have a person that was willing to or with the knowledge to do it because nobody had dealt.

00;26;20;16 - 00;26;42;11 Unknown I guess, with security in that form of going to the cloud or didn't want to learn it. So I took it on and I said, okay, I'll make it happen and made it happen. So it's thinking of I try to think outside the box, okay, my job says this, but my job goes into how does it connected to the other things around me or what the organization does.

00;26;42;14 - 00;27;05;23 Unknown And that's how you see the holes in what you might currently have within your organization. What do I connect to? What is the goal of what what we have to accomplish for an organization? And I think about taking on those things where you have to go and and I had to go and, have meetings with people at the, Google's at the Microsoft, you know, at the Verizon Cloud people.

00;27;05;23 - 00;27;23;10 Unknown I had to deal heavily with Amazon and go to talk to them. Just being willing to put myself out there and be like, okay, I'll take it on, you know, and just not limiting yourself because I found that a lot of people, it's not that they can't do it, is that restriction they put on themselves for the fear of doing what if I mess up?

00;27;23;17 - 00;27;45;00 Unknown Okay, if you mess up, correct it and move on. Most great, lessons I learned were when you make a misstep and then you come up with a, a good comeback. That's better than what you thought before. But a lot of people just limit themselves in their mind because it's all about how you think. It's a mindset now is that it absolutely is mindset, and I love that.

00;27;45;02 - 00;28;13;08 Unknown So the versatility of being able to see things that maybe sometimes others aren't focused on or yeah, you just have what was on the sports. Right. The you see the field of play. You're seeing that is that is that something that you had a stronghold on early in your life, or is that something that just developed over time with your experiences up to that point, to where it refined your ability to see things that others weren't paying attention to?

00;28;13;10 - 00;28;39;18 Unknown I think it came from my parents when I grew up. I was always that really quiet, observing kid. I was a kid that read the encyclopedia and dictionary over the summer just for just for kicks. So that's how nerdy I was. I still am. So it was just always being, always knowing and understanding from my parents. The loudest person in the room is not necessarily the person that knows the most or has the greatest insight.

00;28;39;21 - 00;28;56;26 Unknown Before you speak, take time to step back and hear everything and look at the full picture. And my parents always taught me that, so I always live that way. I don't, and I always tell people I don't speak up much in media initially because I'm trying to assess the room. I'm trying to assess what what's going on and get a complete picture.

00;28;56;29 - 00;29;22;18 Unknown And then that way, in my mind, I can say, okay, well, there's a whole here are this gold with that. And it gives me a clearer picture and a better understanding. And I think that's why I can see the holes. Did you ever encounter anything that that was misunderstood as someone that would just sit back and be quiet meetings and it would be mistaken as some other behavioral component, or, you know, those types of things to where you'd miss out or I've never missed out.

00;29;22;18 - 00;29;41;02 Unknown But I think it initially when I initially do that for a few meetings, people think, well, she doesn't speak up until I open my mouth and I'll tell people, I say, I speak up, I say, but I like to speak with information and inform them to just speak, to be heard, because there's a lot of people speak because they like the sound of their voice.

00;29;41;04 - 00;30;05;02 Unknown That's another thing my parents taught me. Don't speak just to hear your own voice. When you speak, you need to have something to say. And so that's how I kind of got myself. It has it is never hurt me. And then once they work with me, they understand. It's like, oh, she's analyzing everything because I'm very analytical. She's analyzing and looking at everything, and then she's going to speak when she has the information because I don't want to misspeak and be misinformed.

00;30;05;09 - 00;30;27;10 Unknown But to me, that's worse than not speaking at all. Nice. It's probably considered, in my opinion, only my opinion a lost art. I agree the way the way that I believe, the way social media is influenced to feel like we have to, top somebody or, you know, pull out the more extreme now everything has to happen faster.

00;30;27;10 - 00;30;58;10 Unknown And in first, that it kind of interferes with the ability to have that innate ability to do what you just said sit back, observe, absorb, you know, watch things as they occur and then get to a part to where it matters to speak, speak with purpose and then the business sector. And I'll take Oracle as an example to me, like there are a lot of cloud service providers before Oracle came out, right, Amazon hit the ground run and got the first thing with the government, and they were locked in with the government for a while, and they were the big dog with the government.

00;30;58;12 - 00;31;20;02 Unknown But Oracle came up with their cloud and they paid attention. Oracle did the exact same thing that I do, but at a on a corporate scale. Oracle sat back. They watched. They watched the mistakes that others made. They watched with a hole in the gap for an oracle, came in and failed. So they did exactly that. It's almost like a corporate strategy or, you know, a strategy that businesses use.

00;31;20;04 - 00;31;37;23 Unknown You don't have to be first. Look at Apple. Apple, they don't have to be first. Other companies do stuff, but they stand there and they're $1 trillion company because why they let you go make the mistake. Then they come back and they find the holes that you missed. They they correct your mistake and make a even better product.

00;31;37;25 - 00;32;00;14 Unknown The sound bite. This is I'm biased, but not if you know. You know, you nailed it. A lot of times people will say, and I'm absolutely not an expert in this part, but it's just an observation that you don't find that Oracle goes out loud, right. And the smart, you know, the types of marketing is very intentional and deliberate and things like that.

00;32;00;14 - 00;32;23;02 Unknown So, you know, a lot of times people I mean, well, let me ask this. Did you know about Oracle before? Oh yeah. I'm a nerd. Yeah. Yeah, that's probably a dumb question of course. Yeah. But Oracle is the quiet kid in the room. Oracle was the quiet kid in a room observing. They were there, observed in one during their analysis paying attention and that everybody was like, okay, they're quiet, so they must not be doing anything.

00;32;23;02 - 00;32;47;15 Unknown But Oracle was working in the background. They weren't the loud kid on the bus saying, yeah, I'm doing this. And they were like, they're the quiet kid taking notes, being observant. And then they just moved in silently. Got it. So FBI change. Yeah. Now you're looking at the next move, KPMG. And when I worked for KPMG, what made you go there?

00;32;47;18 - 00;33;18;21 Unknown They had a job that was really interesting to me. That I wanted to do, I wanted to move out into the civilian sector and make a difference there. But knowing that because of my clearance level that of course I was going to be involved in government stuff as well. Still, which was fine. So I moved to KPMG and I was with KPMG for like three years, and I left and I went to another cyber company that was veteran owned, and what pulled me to that was because it was better or no, it's called Invictus.

00;33;18;24 - 00;33;35;25 Unknown And I went there because it was better and on. And I like the fact that it was veteran owned. They came in, they offered me another position that ended, I had a contract that worked with Dia them worked on some projects, and they had the contract. And so I ended up getting laid off during the Covid for like seven months.

00;33;35;27 - 00;34;01;11 Unknown So in between that seven months, once again, don't know how I got a call from Oracle Recruiter. I don't know where that came from either. I imagine it was probably my LinkedIn profile. I could say. And they reached out. Her name was Ryan and she was very, very upfront with what Oracle was looking for. She was very upfront with the process, the amount of interviews, and Oracle was getting their certification during that time, she said.

00;34;01;11 - 00;34;25;19 Unknown So she said, I'm gonna be honest with you, we're going under this so our interviewers might be busy. It might take a while, but if you're just hold on, we're serious about the offer, basically. But just let me know if you decide to take something or if another organization is looking for you. And at the time, I was actually the, Situation Room at the white House, I was under consideration for that position, and I actually interviewed for it.

00;34;25;19 - 00;34;47;07 Unknown I actually got it. And I told Ryan and I thought about I got it and I accepted it, and I was like, okay, white House Situation Room Oracle. Then I said, after I accepted it two days later, I, rescinded my acceptance because I wanted the opportunity. I saw in my mind the opportunity of Oracle being greater than working in the white House Situation Room.

00;34;47;09 - 00;35;03;07 Unknown I know that sounds crazy to a lot of people, because a lot of people will be like, why would you take why would you rescind the offer to the Situation Room? Because of its high bids. And you you get to do this, that and the other, and you're in this place as where all these political people and you'll be able to see this.

00;35;03;09 - 00;35;26;14 Unknown And that was an important to me. The thing about it is, if I'd work for all the big three letter organizations and partnerships with projects and things, so how does that benefit and how is that going to benefit my career going forward outside of that aspect? How was it going to grow me as an engineer? How is it going to grow me as a person in my skillset?

00;35;26;20 - 00;35;47;20 Unknown It wouldn't, but Oracle would. The Oracle would give me that ability to work on these different projects to expand my different horizons, to be to be able to work in stuff that like, generative AI are the new up and coming technologies where I wouldn't get that in a white House situation. I'd get what I've always been working on for the past several years for most of my life.

00;35;47;27 - 00;36;05;29 Unknown And the federal system. But Oracle gave me something different to actually go out into all civilian areas and access areas that I wouldn't be able to access. Working with the situation Room. Got it. So I was going to I was going to take a minute to go back to. I was like, well, yeah, your LinkedIn profile probably contributed to it.

00;36;05;29 - 00;36;31;27 Unknown But we had some pretty good recruiters also, and it seemed, it seems though, that, although that is true, that is more interesting thing to cover real quick. And you landed on this and I love that you did, because the fact is, it's what you want. And I think that if we kind of peek into transition in the components and you've transitioned several times, so not just from the military, but even for that, you know, you transition from high school mindset into a military environment.

00;36;32;04 - 00;36;51;24 Unknown It's a different mindset to come back to high school, to go back to the military and then go to college. And then, I mean, all of that shift in focus and attention. It's no wonder you just ended that statement with, this is why I chose this path, is because it's going to give you the things that you want, and you landed on that.

00;36;51;26 - 00;37;19;20 Unknown How did you land on that specifically to know exactly where you can assert, probably arguably, just for context, two of the most significant choices, one could ever have at the white House or private sector. For me, I looked at the the long haul. And when I say that, I mean the long haul. For your security as a person, what do you want as a person?

00;37;19;23 - 00;37;37;29 Unknown It goes back to kind of like the Lao kid in a room versus the silent kid, right? The white House working on the white House Situation Room. Okay, plenty of publicity. You can be in the limelight. You can be in the thick of things. You can be in that in that area. But with that comes a lot of extra stress on top of a job.

00;37;38;06 - 00;37;56;01 Unknown Right? Just being in that environment and all that entails. So I was like, yeah, that would be nice. But I don't really I'm not I need to be in the limelight, at the forefront with my name, shine and type person. I'm the type person. I can work. I can work silently in the background and I'm happy either way.

00;37;56;03 - 00;38;42;19 Unknown But to me, because of who Oracle is of the organization, what they've done already knew about Larry Ellison and and just how they were as a company. To me, that value was more than anything, knowing that I will have the opportunity to work on innovative technology to move forward, that can make changes and everything, and just how people use their computer and how people with disabilities use the computer, and how you research thing and how just everybody, elderly people might use a computer or RC computers and how we store that data and secure that data at a more global scale, because not everybody is going to be on a a federal system.

00;38;42;19 - 00;39;06;10 Unknown So, okay, once we lock down, they're locked in. But what about everybody else in the world? What about your kids and your grandkids? You know, how are they being able to touch them? Because I worked and done this presentation on something called Cyber Kids before teaching kids about the security of the internet and the pitfalls of the internet and how to stay safe, and how parents can keep their kids safe online.

00;39;06;12 - 00;39;31;16 Unknown So an organization like Oracle would let me do that more, and it would also let me defend it against those bad actors. Like I had when I was in U.S.. So I can kind of do the military thing without of being military. That's amazing that because that it's hard to say because I don't want to consume time on it here, because it it's hard to believe that it's, you know, sometimes people will say that they hear what you just said and they'll be like, okay.

00;39;31;18 - 00;39;56;02 Unknown But the the depth of what the words are that you just talked about to explain the purpose and and again, it's a biased perspective, but, you know, the things that Oracle's involved in and how how far and how deep these things contribute to the things that we take for granted and simplicity of those things. I mean, you certainly oversimplified it with the depth of all the complexities.

00;39;56;02 - 00;40;19;23 Unknown You know, it's all of these bigger institutions. Yeah, but what about these? And yeah, the folks that are easy to be lost in the shuffle because it's, you know, not big money, not big opportunity, whatever the reason is. And so you got to focus on these, these other little areas that are very specific to how we operate as a, as a global economic contributor to not only society, but things in general, education and whatnot.

00;40;19;23 - 00;40;46;22 Unknown So how excited of Shift gears, how excited are you with the the AI project? Oh, I haven't worked on a much. I've looked into the generative AI here I was on I got a free beat into it here. But Oracle, I'm very excited to eventually put on another bigger project that I'm working for our team right now for Oracle and I what I see of what Oracle's doing is exciting, but every little piece that Oracle is putting in place is a big picture.

00;40;46;22 - 00;41;04;10 Unknown Plan is like the like I said, it's bytes from the elephant that all stalk all strategically place and for everybody else is like I have to be the first one and I'm gonna put it out. But you're putting out a subpar product. It looks good. It's shiny, it works, you know, for the most part, but it's missing some depth to it.

00;41;04;13 - 00;41;23;13 Unknown And Oracle, that was again that kid in the background that paid attention. And they're strategically placing their chips. So foundationally they're going to be more set. They're going to have more of the bases covered. And it's going to all feed into that big picture of what Oracle has and what they want to move. And so the future got it.

00;41;23;13 - 00;41;52;28 Unknown So as we kind of segue and transition out now that we just talked about that and having been here over three years, what are you doing here at Oracle? I'm a principal security engineer with the Threat Voluntarily Management team, where we deal with the different threats and vulnerabilities that are out there using the, cvss vulnerability listing and things that come out with our teams and helping teams to make sure that their systems are secure and within compliance.

00;41;52;28 - 00;42;17;13 Unknown So that's where I'm working right now. Got it. And what are you what are you interested in in the future? What do you have your sights on since your ambition and all of your, aspirations have clearly been indicated in this conversation? What's next? What are you looking to do, either on the next project or in addition to what you're what you're working on now, the next project or things after this?

00;42;17;13 - 00;42;42;21 Unknown I would like to do, I would like to get more into the I feel more to involved in seeing how Oracle's generative AI functions and getting some getting involved in that. That would be the next big thing that I would like to delve into. Got it. So going back to the pin, were earlier you were you were talking about one step at a time and I'm just, paraphrasing.

00;42;42;21 - 00;43;06;05 Unknown So when we transition and this is somewhat of a message to those that are still serving or maybe got out recently, or maybe not even recently, but they're, they're in a situation I wouldn't call them stuck, but they're contemplating the next move. What do you recommend is the kind of this the high level steps to follow to to to help them just achieve what it is that they're trying to do.

00;43;06;07 - 00;43;30;04 Unknown I think one of the biggest things that I've noticed that a lot of military have in the transition, and it's hard because first of all, the military is its own world. How you think about things and how you, carry things out in the military is different than a civilian sector. And I think a big part of transitioning is has to be a mindset shift from military to civilian.

00;43;30;06 - 00;43;53;25 Unknown And a lot I don't think enough of that is talked about because it's a harsh you have to make, especially if you're a person in leadership, your, NCO or officer, and you're used to giving orders. Well, the civilian sector doesn't necessarily work in that way, and you're very structured on rank structure. And the military, a lot of times civilian sector doesn't work that way.

00;43;53;25 - 00;44;27;12 Unknown You can be talking to SVP and you just might be a regular I.T person and they'll talk to you there. There's more. Yeah, we have this rank, but we're kind of flat. We respect that you are that SVP but I'm still a person right. And a lot of it is the transition to how honestly the civilian sector no longer sees the military, who you are as a military person, and that is part of your identity as a person is being sergeant such and such are major, such and such in the in whatever service.

00;44;27;14 - 00;44;49;03 Unknown That is who you are. That was your identity. Well, when you step away from the military and you retire, you get out. You no longer have that identity. That's not it's part of who you are personally. But the world doesn't see that. You know, as long as you're in the world of the Army or whatever military or service, they see that because you wear it every day, you wear that rank every day.

00;44;49;06 - 00;45;12;18 Unknown But the world doesn't see that. So it's not taken into account, you know, so they don't see you as that person. They see you as civilian Peter Smith, you know, or whoever. That's that's what they see. So when your transitioning from the military to the civilian sector, the mindset needs to be is how do I want the civilian sector to see me?

00;45;12;20 - 00;45;47;20 Unknown How am I going to present myself as a civilian? What skill do I need to have in place while I'm transitioned, or do I need to work on years in advance, whether it be certification, finishing my degree, and all of that? What can I get? While I'm still in the last 3 to 5 years to get completed so I can present myself the way I want to be present in the civilian sector and kind of like have those milestones in place when you know you're getting out, and then if you don't have the luxury of doing it for planning out there for years and you get out unexpectedly, then okay, what are my next steps?

00;45;47;20 - 00;46;10;21 Unknown What do I need to do to make myself competitive in whatever field it is I want from a civilian perspective, not from what I did in the military, but just as a sheer civilian. What are the things that I need to do to project myself the correct way and to make myself formidable in the marketplace? Just ask Plano Pat Smith, not Sergeant Smith, you know.

00;46;10;24 - 00;46;39;22 Unknown So that's that's the first step I would do and then go do those things one step at a time. You don't have to you don't have to defeat all this at once. One step at a time. Little things, making sure that you have a good resume that's well-written. Make sure all those classes or courses that you might have taken in the military, if they convert over to knowledge in the civilian sector as a part of a knowledge base, make sure you convert that over to civilian knowledge, because that counts.

00;46;39;25 - 00;46;58;22 Unknown And we don't think in the military, some of the stuff that we did, we think is regular everyday stuff, and we take the classes, whether it be computer classes, whether it be other engineering, whatever, because it's just part of the job and dealing with the equipment that we deal with. So we don't take it into consideration. But that converts over to to a civilian course somewhere.

00;46;58;25 - 00;47;15;24 Unknown So take advantage of doing that. And the biggest thing is the mindset. And then you don't have to do everything all at once in the military use okay, get it done. Just make it happen. But you can take time out on civilians like, okay, how do I need to go? Where do I need to go? What steps do I need to take?

00;47;15;27 - 00;47;34;21 Unknown Research those steps, research those things on whatever job it is you need to do if you want to be a nurse. Okay. What nursing school? Can I be an LPN first and just go to a technical college for 18 months and get my LPN and then work towards getting my degree so I can be a RA? Or can I go and be a CNA and do steps?

00;47;34;23 - 00;47;51;13 Unknown You know what I mean? To, to kind of like not shake your life up as much as, as much as possible to make a smooth transition. Put those baby steps in there, whereas the Oregon is the ultimate goal. But if you get out and you get a CNA position, you can still work towards your LPN degree at night.

00;47;51;16 - 00;48;10;09 Unknown Then you got your LPN and well, you can work for your R.N. license and make it as steps instead of big projects. And I say that's not a stressful dealing with the transition and ask questions. Research stuff on the internet. Find people that you might know that are in your field that are not in the military. Talk to them.

00;48;10;11 - 00;48;28;01 Unknown Hear what they have to say. Listen to the things that they say, okay, you need to have this, but reach out to people. Form a network of people that are already in there that you might know, because there might be other people, even in the military, there might know of people that are transitioning out or have people that they know in the civilian sector that can give you some pointers and find a mentor.

00;48;28;04 - 00;48;54;22 Unknown Find a mentor of somebody that's already transitioned out that can help you through and take advantage of. Some of the VA does have programs for transition. Take advantage of those things. I know it might seem small, but every little bit of assistance in transitioning that you can get the better. So take advantage of those things because it'll it'll it'll it'll help change your mindset and make the transition easier for you.

00;48;54;25 - 00;49;19;29 Unknown That was amazing. Okay. And and I'm not I mean, you hit all of the bigger items. The check check the not check boxes because it's difficult identity. That's that's probably the first one. And this is not for me. It's not debatable for some that maybe you don't have yet realized it like you have. Identity is the number one prevention from moving through the other things that you talked about is deciding, remembering.

00;49;20;03 - 00;49;42;10 Unknown You were you were somebody before you hit the rank or the command or things like that. And that's what people will, will look at. So I love this. So identity the mindset shift to understand identity, skill development, networking relations, shipbuilding versus networking. Networking is different. Very intentional very specific thing which is fine. But relationship building is the other thing.

00;49;42;10 - 00;50;08;12 Unknown Yes. And that's probably the the distinction. And then of course the planning of being able to once you identify all of these different components, you plan for it work the plan and go. Exactly. Yeah. Pat Smith, I love the way that you stated these things in such a methodical way in order. It explains exactly the path that you kind of walked us through.

00;50;08;14 - 00;50;36;03 Unknown I enjoyed the conversation. I appreciate you making time. Any final thoughts for anybody listening? Now I just want to say thank you for having me on the podcast, Chris. I really appreciate it. Oh you bet. And then thank you. I'm grateful that, we were able to connect. I do love the way that Maven does their stuff internally to where even for us, it introduces folks that right beneath our nose, we have a lot of relationships that we still need to continue making and creating connections.

00;50;36;03 - 00;50;49;16 Unknown So, it's a pleasure to have met you and had this conversation. Thank you so much. Thank you Chris, you have a great rest of your day. You too tired at one? Keep moving forward.

His leadership journey shaped by early family influences and a strong sense of service, Howie graduated from the US Naval Academy where he commissioned into the United States Marine Corps and spent his entire enlistment overseas learning what it truly takes to lead by example. Howie shares valuable lessons on navigating change, building community, and thinking strategically about your next steps—especially when transitioning careers. From "trust but verify" to embracing optimism and knowing when to say no, Howie's leadership philosophy puts mission and people first. Coming to Oracle through our Oracle Veteran Internship Program, known also as OVIP, Howie is bringing those same principles to his role, and we're excited to see what he'll accomplish next. Howie's Linked In - https://www.linkedin.com/in/hmchan16/ Oracle Veteran Info - https://www.oracle.com/careers/culture-inclusion/veterans/#rc30veteran Service 2 School - https://www.service2school.org/

Microsoft's MSSA Tech Bootcamp - https://military.microsoft.com/mssa/

Breakline - https://breakline.org/

FourBlock - https://fourblock.org/

-------------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript:

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;47;19 Unknown You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by Howie Chan, Oracle senior technical program manager and former United States Marine. His leadership journey, shaped by early family influences and a strong sense of service, led Howie to graduate from the United States Naval Academy, where he commissioned into the United States Marine Corps and spent his entire overseas learning what it truly takes to lead by example, how he shares valuable lessons on navigating change, building community, and thinking strategically

00;00;47;19 - 00;01;09;09 Unknown about your next steps, especially when transitioning careers from trust but verify to embracing optimism and knowing when to say no. How his leadership philosophy puts mission in people first. Coming to Oracle through Oracle's veteran internship program, known also as over how he's bringing those same principles to his role, and we're excited to see what to accomplish next. We have all we need to become the person we want to be.

00;01;09;09 - 00;01;29;17 Unknown So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. Howie's contact details in the podcast description, and you can always find me on LinkedIn. Good morning Howie. How's it going?

00;01;29;19 - 00;01;49;11 Unknown Hey, Chris. Pretty good man. How about yourself? Doing all right? Thanks. Yep. It's, the beginning of the week, and it's early. Not real early, but early enough to get to get us a good baseline to have a great conversation. Sure. Now, I appreciate your time. Happy to do this. Yeah. No. Likewise. And, you know, for everybody listening.

00;01;49;11 - 00;02;08;22 Unknown You know, how he's how he joined us through one of our hiring channels. And I'll let him elaborate on those things and, and talk about how it is that we came to meet and what we're talking about today. But before we get there, Howie, tell us a little bit about you. So, yeah, my name is Howie Chan. I was born in the South.

00;02;08;29 - 00;02;27;29 Unknown I grew up in Knoxville, Tennessee, and most of my life in Huntsville, Alabama. From there, I went to the U.S. Naval Academy and commissioned into the US Marine Corps as a communications and signals officer. Over the last 70 years in capacity. So my entire career overseas, three and half years in Asia, three and half years in the Middle East.

00;02;28;01 - 00;02;51;18 Unknown I got the Marine Corps at the end of 2022 and took a travel sabbatical in 2023, traveling the globe from there. Joined Oracle, through Oracle's veteran internship program, over last year. So grateful to the Lord for opened a door to be able to do a current internship to a full time offer. But, that's essentially how I got here, was through Oracle's veteran internship program.

00;02;51;20 - 00;03;25;03 Unknown Got it. No. It's great. So Knoxville, Was it was what was growing up in Knoxville like for you, you know, how did that lead to Huntsville? Yeah. Candidly, you know, I was I was I was on there Knoxville til I was about seven years old. I've one older brother and my dad being a medical doctor, he had a really crazy work schedule and so when my brother and in middle school, my dad was on called time or, like, on duty all the time, and my brother mentioned, like he wanted to see my dad were often and we wanted to be doing more family things.

00;03;25;03 - 00;03;45;26 Unknown And so my dad made the decision to move our family from Knoxville, Tennessee down to Huntsville, Alabama for better work life fit, and he was able to find that. And that's how we end up moving from Knoxville to Huntsville. But but yeah, I've been in the South once all my life that that makes that so. So about how old were you when when you went to Huntsville.

00;03;45;28 - 00;04;16;14 Unknown That was that. 77878778. Yeah. How was how was that transition from Knoxville to Huntsville as far as friends and going to school and things like that? I think naturally, you know, when you're in a new environment, it's always a challenge initially up front, but you're able to make things work. But, after getting acquainted, I was able to make new friends and build a community and then take those lessons over time as we gotten older and take it to our life today.

00;04;16;17 - 00;04;38;21 Unknown That's you could transplant that and building a community, adapting basically as an eight year old, the same way as you can do as an 18 year old, in a 28 year old and so we'll, we'll come back to that part because it's we got to talk about that. Right. As a as as the veteran affiliated community. We have to talk about that.

00;04;38;24 - 00;04;59;10 Unknown So growing up, what made you go to the Naval Academy? What kind of get us to the part of where you're saying, this is what I want to do, no less? Definitely a fair question. Actually, I would say, you know, look at my family. We come from a family of service. I actually had two cousins who were in the military commission through the U.S. Naval Academy.

00;04;59;12 - 00;05;20;13 Unknown Cousin John, in 1999, you know, joined the nuclear submarine force. And my cousin Mickey, who commission in 2005 joined NSW in the Naval Special Warfare. As part of the teams, the Navy Seal teams, for about 20 years. But they were positive influences in my life and I think we can all relate to that one family friend or uncle relative who joined the military.

00;05;20;15 - 00;05;39;12 Unknown And yeah, I mean, ideally positive influences. But you know, for the fact for my two cousins, they were excellent role models for me. And so whenever they had their spring break or fall break, they would come visit my family, either in Huntsville, Alabama or Knoxville at that time. And yeah, I always loved them. And I view them as like older brothers and mentors.

00;05;39;12 - 00;06;03;02 Unknown And when I came to, actually thinking about the service, the I just reached out to them and they, they said like, hey, you know, you're looking for a great education. You're also looking to also serve the country and give back. Why not go for like the service academies, whether it's the Naval Camera, West Point. And so looking at the different branches, you know, I definitely wanted to other join either the Navy or the Marine Corps.

00;06;03;02 - 00;06;25;06 Unknown And so the Naval Academy, it made the most sense for me. What year was what year is that when you went to the Naval Academy? I was in the Naval Academy from 2012 to May 2016. Yeah, it's you have 2012 to 2016. What kind of prep does it take for someone to make that choice? How early do you need to think about that and land on a path that gets you ready?

00;06;25;09 - 00;06;47;16 Unknown I would say maybe a year and a half to two years and advance. So I think for those who are considering the service academy path, whether they're in high school or even a few years removed from high school because the, the, the maximum age you can join is 23 years old or so. They do accept prior listed folks to actually commission through the service academies until 23 years old.

00;06;47;18 - 00;07;06;18 Unknown Yeah, I would recommend roughly about a year and a half to two years, I think, definitely assessing where you are at physically. There's also a component where besides completing the college application to other than Naval County, West Point or other academies, you also need a a political nomination that's from your congressman, your senator or the vice president president.

00;07;06;21 - 00;07;24;15 Unknown And so they have their own each of those different buckets, they all have their own timelines roughly. They're similar, but they can be nuanced differently based on their own, timelines. But you also have to go through on vetting process to get a nomination so you can complete all the, you know, college applications. You can complete the physical tests.

00;07;24;15 - 00;07;50;26 Unknown There's also there's a physical test component as well too. You can do all those things, but you don't have a political nomination, whether it's your senator or your congressman or vice president, you're not allowed to, receive an appointment to attend one of those academies when you're in. For those that aren't quite familiar with how how the assignment works, because some might hear you say, Naval Academy and I was assigned and then the Marine Corps walk us through the process of where you end up, what branch holistically.

00;07;50;26 - 00;08;07;05 Unknown I mean, the U.S. AmeriCorps is part of a Department of Navy, whether we'd like to admit that or not, but we are. But the Naval Academy is the commissioning source, both for the Navy and the Marine Corps. If you're choosing the service academy as the route of commissioning, roughly, you start with a class of 1200 your freshman year, a year, like we call it.

00;08;07;05 - 00;08;34;05 Unknown And by the time you you graduate, your first year or senior year, there's usually a thousand. And so roughly 75%. So about 750 commissioned US Navy, whereas the other 250, that 25% you commissioned to US Marine Corps. And so the summer and your senior year at the Naval Academy is like they like the justification. Usually there's like an assessment to see like which and validate like which branch of service you like to be a part of or interested in.

00;08;34;05 - 00;09;02;07 Unknown And then based on your academic standings, your performance during that summer, military training, the summer prior to entering your senior year, come the mid fall timeframe, that's when you find out which, branch that you'll be a part of. But for me, I really gravitate towards the US Marine Corps because being exposed to highly, qualified senior leaders, and also officers at the least at the Naval Academy, I was just really drawn to the Marine Corps, especially just the caliber folks.

00;09;02;14 - 00;09;18;05 Unknown Their motivation, it was just infectious. And I want to be part of that environment and be challenged. And, you know, for for me, I seen these people, what they're doing. I want to join one of the toughest branches and Marine Corps. It seemed to be a great fit for me. So it was the people that the calling, the challenges.

00;09;18;07 - 00;09;36;07 Unknown And I would say those are the two things because of what really drew me to the Marine Corps. Yeah, yeah. You got did you hear that cry? Just the battle cry right now while the Marines just celebrating your choice. The words that you just chose to use for sure. So what happens after that? So you get now you're in senior year.

00;09;36;07 - 00;09;57;09 Unknown You know you're going to the Marines. When do you when do you learn what your your job, your role will be whether you graduate from the Naval Academy or or another publicly accredited university, all Marine Corps officers, they all we all get sent to Quantico, Virginia at the 26 week program called the Basic School, where we all learn how to be provisional rifle platoon commanders.

00;09;57;11 - 00;10;26;15 Unknown And so roughly, that's a six month training pipeline. And by the last month or two, you have to rack and stack based on the list of like 26 different places or different job specialties. What we like to consider. And then based on your academic standings, the ratings for the Marine Corps change, they kind of went through like a, a tiered system, like a 1/33, three third, there's a happy quality spread, but it's fluctuated in terms of based on performance versus a tiered system to have a quality spread.

00;10;26;15 - 00;10;43;09 Unknown So someone who's more and more recently and would have a better understanding. But at the time they did a quality spread for our class. So what I mean by that is like, let's say that there's a class of 300. There's like tiered slots. It's like one bucket number one's for the first 100, second bucket for next, and so on.

00;10;43;11 - 00;11;00;12 Unknown They did not want to have particular job specialties to be all lopsided with all like top performers. Otherwise all the other molasses and chop specialties were going to be neglected. So they did a quality spread where, you know, you could be ranked number one and get your first choice. You'd be ranked number 200 and get your first choice.

00;11;00;12 - 00;11;21;17 Unknown You can be like number 300 bomb blast. Let's look at your first choice as well too. But the point being, though, the intent was to have a quality spread where you have high performers across all embassies. So, that was the mindset at that time in 2016 they may be doing today, I'm not sure, but at that time that we chose for me, I got my first choice, which was communication signals for me.

00;11;21;17 - 00;11;40;17 Unknown My preference is I want to be close to technology. I want to be close to being platoons of Marines and actually lead based on, you know, based on leadership development from the Naval Academy and also from coming from the Bates School in Quantico. And the main MOS is word you have the opportunity to do that were either two infantry logistics or communications and signals.

00;11;40;17 - 00;11;58;19 Unknown And so for me, it was a no brainer to choose one of those three. And I was able to get my top five choice of the comms signals. And that's where my journey began. Like it. Were you surprised after after that you had initial understanding of what? What that what do we call job classification? MOS yeah, we call them lessons with.

00;11;58;19 - 00;12;16;21 Unknown Did anything surprise you once you got into the C and you started leading the Marines and actually fulfilling the obligations of the role, any surprises? Oh, man, there's more surprises all the time. I would say that initially the impression we were going to the fleet after all this train, it's like, all right, I got all my act together, all the training.

00;12;16;21 - 00;12;49;01 Unknown And when you show up to your first unit and mission said you actually have no idea what you're doing at first. But that's why you have good NCO, you have good advisors, and you also have good officers, ideally to come alongside you and walk you through the process to teach you the process and systems of how the record does business and the particular with each unit, you know, whether you're in the Pacific or you're in the West Coast or East Coast, each unit has their own preference of how they do business, and so over a period of time, ideally, you'll be able to mold and adapt to that, to that team and unit, to be

00;12;49;01 - 00;13;09;00 Unknown able to use your skills that that's been developed to more through that. And yeah, it's definitely a growing process and learning process. And, you know, I can definitely say that I learned a lot of what to do as a leader, what not to do as leader. And and just have a and in due time, be able to grow my understanding of how the Marine Corps operates and the bigger picture.

00;13;09;03 - 00;13;39;29 Unknown Top three lessons learned. What are they who, number wants to trust but verify? It's a good one. I would say the second one would be it's okay to say no and learn how to have boundaries to, push back within reason. And that's a that's a growing skill. Let's continue that. That's a hard one. But I would say the third one would be just to have an optimistic attitude because, and just roll with the punches.

00;13;39;29 - 00;13;58;08 Unknown So, transmit, verify, learn how to say no. And if there is, I have enough in the sky too. I think those are those can go a long way. Yeah, those those are good ones. You have any one cert? Put you on the spot. You have any one circumstance that where you recall as an example of any one of those three.

00;13;58;11 - 00;14;13;04 Unknown Yeah. I would say trust but verify. I mean it is my first unit. I learned what to do or what not to do it later. I think Trump's a new lieutenant coming to a unit. There's an expectation that you're supposed to learn quickly and perform at the same time. You don't really know anything at the same time.

00;14;13;04 - 00;14;32;08 Unknown Depending on different units. Sometimes some units are under-resourced, both manpower and equipment. And so you just have to learn how to figure it out and you have to work do with what you had. And so the situation where I was was I didn't have a senior leader initially. And so I don't rely a lot on a bunch of, of NCOs along the time process.

00;14;32;08 - 00;14;51;24 Unknown And of course, and with rank and experience, there are things that people are aware of, things aren't, they're not aware of. And so I worked with what I had at the time. I was really grateful to those engineers because they understood where I was coming from. And they also at the same time. And so it was like a balance between trusting them but also verifying with them.

00;14;51;27 - 00;15;12;18 Unknown But I'm very grateful to them from those experiences because we went through a lot together. And whether it's unit inspections coming down from Marine Corps to just supporting different military exercises across the region, I would say that first unit, during that first term was pivotal in terms of development as an officer, in terms of, yeah, trusting but verify and learning how to have an optimistic attitude.

00;15;12;18 - 00;15;30;11 Unknown And it's it's such a lot of tough situations and also learn how to say no. Which it actually helped me out later down the road towards my second to our lot. So I think often back about that first tour, a lot has been pivotal to to follow up. So that so where was your first assignment? I wanted to travel and see the world.

00;15;30;16 - 00;16;09;28 Unknown And so I made a point. Prior to go to Okinawa, Japan was my first choice for the Marine Corps. And I would say that that first unit was with the Marine Wing, Communication Squadron 18. That's based over on Camp Foster and Okinawa, Japan. Basically, their main mission is to provide communications for first marine aircraft, weighing whether it's with tilt rotor aircraft such as Beat Ospreys or skids like Cobras, Vipers, whatnot, or depending on which unit, fixed wings the power of you're attached to the units, but holistically is to provide communication support for the aircraft component of the Marine Corps and the commanding general who supports, first of all, so that was the

00;16;09;28 - 00;16;41;24 Unknown main mission, part of that mission to after I got experience, I've able to commander and eventually pivoted to me becoming an independent S6 or independent, I guess. Trusted advisor, communications advisor for the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit, which is, for a continuous deployed unit over in the Pacific that provides a variety of mission profiles for our nation, whether it's from humanitarian assistance and disaster relief to our partners in region or providing a lot of power combat power capabilities for our nation and our partner allies within region as well, too, in terms of deterrence.

00;16;41;27 - 00;17;02;14 Unknown But those were the main to mission to the surface. MEU but holistically, that's where I was. So Okinawa, Japan Brewing Communication Squadron 18, eventually, after getting some experience, then pushed a three person view which postured me up for later going down to Middle East later. But I loved every bit of it. I love, I love traveling, and I definitely was able to travel and see the world during that time.

00;17;02;20 - 00;17;27;14 Unknown So learning from your senior and CEOs, maybe some junior NCOs and how Marines are sometimes any pranks shenanigans that you remember when they know that we have a new lieutenant coming in, we're going to show them some ropes, but no, actually had a good bunch. I definitely had to get my employee to our pranks on me. I think it takes time to build rapport.

00;17;27;14 - 00;17;48;06 Unknown And I think that what really built rapport between myself and them and trust me, and going to continuous requests, just they knew the pressure that I was going through. And you sure that giant cared for their well-being? And even though I may have been during my initial my first time being a leader at that situation, they were very forgiving.

00;17;48;08 - 00;18;05;24 Unknown Like, okay, I know they recognize that how he's going through some pressures will work through it, but over a period of time over that year and a half, we really trust each other a lot. You know, they've been never back, you know, just to help me out. You know, as engineers, the main four three Mandela Kowski, Seth Low, Chad Allen, very grateful to them.

00;18;05;26 - 00;18;26;01 Unknown There were corporals and sergeants at the time, E45 but, they were definitely the glue for that. And also my platoon sergeant, Dajuan Phillips and Solis and others. But, they were pivotal in terms of, you know, if I didn't have them. Oh my gosh, I would not have been successful at all. So I'm a product of their success.

00;18;26;03 - 00;18;48;26 Unknown Yeah. That's that's good answer. Support. No better friend. Right. 90% 90%. But I know there's something in there that you don't let you leave it out. So we'll just leave it at though because you're, you're you're doing the right thing. So your second, second, duty station was that, that was in Bahrain in the Middle Eastern.

00;18;48;28 - 00;19;07;26 Unknown I knew that, my time being a camo comms and signal officer that do you location preferences in terms of going to Middle East and being attached? Was pretty limited, but at the time, moving from Japan to the Middle East, my three options were Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Bahrain. I put that in and that particular preference order.

00;19;07;29 - 00;19;25;07 Unknown And I came Bahrain, which candidly at the time I was pretty ignorant. I was like, I don't even know where the country Bahrain sat. I know what Saudi Arabia is. I've heard of the UAE, I know where Bahrain is. And so after going some googling everything to figure out of all small, tiny kingdom just to the east of Saudi Arabia, but I am going to Bahrain.

00;19;25;07 - 00;19;54;07 Unknown And as Palmer sent G6 or Marine Central Command G essentially in that role, I was providing it communication support for all Marine Corps forces across the entire Middle East region. So whether it's supporting SPE, Mac, Taft, special purpose Mac tasks, or supporting any marine as you come into theater, what is the 22nd you 26, me or whoever? There's a joint Naval Marine Corps command called Task Force 51 five or Task Force 51 from the Navy, joint with a fifth Marine Expeditionary gave them Marine Corps.

00;19;54;10 - 00;20;18;05 Unknown But essentially, these folks would take control of this joint, any Marine Corps forces that come in the region. So I was there from 2020 to 2022. That was a zone challenge by itself. But definitely my first four experience definitely helped posture me to be better equipped of how to support that mission. And I also had, some great teammates as well too, in order to make that successful.

00;20;18;05 - 00;20;36;07 Unknown But the Middle East Centcom was my second choice, and I was able to continue my passion of traveling, seeing the world and doing so in the Middle East. Nice. Yeah, that's that's a good it's a good mix. I mean, it's, it's a long time though. So that's where with two you said three and two. Yeah. Three and two.

00;20;36;07 - 00;20;54;17 Unknown So I was about three and a half. Yeah. December 2017 one to August 2020 was for Japan. And then from August 2022 till November 2022, that was, in the Middle East. Got it. What are some of the some of the key things that you learned now that you had the what's lengthy times in each of those locations, but different experiences, I'm sure.

00;20;54;17 - 00;21;18;10 Unknown So what what was the beginning of where you started to recognize whether or not you were going to continue on reenlist or, choose to transition out? You know, every servicemember goes through that transition work, whether you're to your first enlistment after your fourth four years, if you're a junior military officer, in terms of initial five years or so, I think we all have that conversation.

00;21;18;13 - 00;21;33;03 Unknown And so, you know, I recognize that people come from different units, right? Some of them may have a really positive experience, some you really have a really crappy experience. And so that really dictates and shapes people's decision process of whether they want to get the heck out as soon as possible or they really love it. And if we continue it.

00;21;33;04 - 00;21;52;01 Unknown So I do recognize that it's going to vary for different people. But I enjoyed my time as much as it was challenging. And I made the decision point. Probably as I was moving to the Middle East, I was thinking about myself. Do I want to go back to Okinawa to become a company commander and join, third Marine Division in terms of that track, you know, career trajectory?

00;21;52;01 - 00;22;14;23 Unknown Or should I pivot and just pivot to the private sector and I was leaning probably a 6040 split initially, 60% up getting out, 40% staying in, while I was in Middle East, mainly because I had some family circumstances. My family, and something I didn't mention earlier is that after my, you know, after I went to college, my folks became empty nesters and moved from Alabama to California.

00;22;14;26 - 00;22;38;05 Unknown And so since I have been away from home for over almost five years now, it was five years, it was time for me just to come back home and be closer to family. And so the decision in terms of being closer to family and also looking at the career trajectory too candidly to see a 4 to 5 in terms of within the community, some loved it, some maturity, and we're just okay with it.

00;22;38;07 - 00;22;56;25 Unknown And I, I recognize that maybe that, my perspective is limited compared to other people's experiences, but at least with my experience in my circle, it was a confirmation for me. Just talking with them candidly from like 1 to 1 about their career trajectory, is that just hearing their stories and the challenges? It was for me, it was time for me just to move on based on this conversation.

00;22;56;25 - 00;23;15;19 Unknown So. So yeah, that's a long way of me of saying that the decision process to move out was initially was moving to the Middle East, and at the same time, while I was finishing my second tour, I was already having conversations with different folks, both who are thinking about those who stayed in in terms of understand why they wanted to.

00;23;15;19 - 00;23;38;01 Unknown And I started talking to other, folks who recently transition. We're going through a transition themselves, or those who are two years removed as well, too, because I want to have a holistic approach of what people's experiences were in the transition, because it's definitely not easy, and everyone's transition is very personal, and it's gonna look very different. That talk.

00;23;38;04 - 00;23;59;28 Unknown So let's can we circle around that topic for a little bit. So about how long from your termination date or separation date did you start that process. Was it as you were going to Bahrain or early while you were there? Discharge the question of how long did it take me? I would say it took roughly about one year.

00;24;00;02 - 00;24;23;04 Unknown I made is when I got back from leave in October 2021, while still station and the Middle East, I made the decision thought process, thought process to actually leave. I started the administration process at least formally lay my battalion commander know and others a decision thought process. And so that way once giving due diligence to the unit to make sure there's like unit continuity, to make sure that our operations are impeded.

00;24;23;04 - 00;24;46;13 Unknown Based on my decision to leave, it also allowed both from the senior advisors and also the officer corps to do in terms of manpower projections, in terms of once you onboard the next batch or crew for to replace myself. But, yeah, I started and verbalized that conversation in October 2021, went through the admin process. By the summer 2022, I think it was like June 2022.

00;24;46;13 - 00;25;16;12 Unknown That's when I got official resignation papers were approved. And I basically, because I really enjoyed my time in the Middle East as I just to write it out until my replacement came in around the late fall of 2022. Got it. Yes. And so I'm asking because when we get when we get this far in a conversation with, well, recent service members who transition to veteran status, it's always an interesting like it's not it's not even a discussion.

00;25;16;12 - 00;25;53;08 Unknown It's just to understand the timelines because you all have branches, different branches. Consider the available resources at certain times. Right. So that, you know, generally speaking, a sweeping statement is officers probably get a little bit more information earlier when the longer you're in two years out, you start processing or thinking about the idea to where you can have an opportunity to process and then, you know, enlisted maybe a year out and, you know, so it's in a in a timeline of what you're indicating, a five years in a first term, first enlistment.

00;25;53;10 - 00;26;13;20 Unknown What what is the typical timelines that people start to consider these things? Because what we're finding, again, anecdotal data, what we're finding is planning is sometimes more prominently last minute and last minute in the sense of within a year they there's a decision to make, you know, I don't want to do this. I want to do something else.

00;26;13;20 - 00;26;36;11 Unknown Or for whatever reason is the reasons matter less. It's just when you when you land on that. So looking at the priorities and the process, you mentioned that you started to network and and ask people both in who who are thinking about it what their experiences were, that, is that a common thing? Do you think that somebody like you is planning to get out?

00;26;36;11 - 00;26;57;29 Unknown And then you started to ask around to, to get information that would help you with that decision, or is that something that you found yourself to be different in that sense than others? I think the general principles are the same. I think that the way I like to view it, and I think what makes it different, it's just like the types of people that you're with in terms of where they are severely.

00;26;58;04 - 00;27;16;14 Unknown Well, I don't say severely, but it greatly will affect your decision process. So that's why I, I would encourage all veterans, regardless whether you're also in listen to really because you don't know what you know, to really encourage to you to reach out to other military veterans across the community to find out their journey from the military to where they are today, regardless of industry.

00;27;16;16 - 00;27;33;10 Unknown You know, the example I like to think about is like concentric circles, right? So in your inner core, you got yourself in a dead center. And then as you as you branch out, you have your family friends, right? Like, oh, how did you know Uncle Joe or my neighbor Bob or whoever? How did we get to do our job?

00;27;33;10 - 00;27;52;10 Unknown They are today, right? And as you're expanding from your family, friends, then you're going to your former teammates as your buddies, whether they finish your enlistment or they finish their off for, you know, a term, you asked about their process and then from there, whether you went to college or you didn't. But if there's any alumni that you know of, those are folks that can reach out.

00;27;52;10 - 00;28;11;12 Unknown And eventually when you get to the outer rings of the concentric circle, that's using LinkedIn is a fantastic tool. In order to help narrow your search of reaching out and connecting to different veterans and to reach out to them at different seasons of whenever they transition. That's true. That's a good point. And that that's a good plan, you know, to define.

00;28;11;15 - 00;28;36;00 Unknown And then ironic that you say circle, find who within your circle and how that that circle is expansive and there's layers to the circles and the relationships you have and those you serve with, those you maybe didn't. And then you use tools to be able to extend that process, like LinkedIn or social media in some capacity, where you can be intentional about looking for specific individuals that fit mostly with what you know.

00;28;36;03 - 00;29;11;26 Unknown Because like you mentioned, you don't know what you don't know. Sometimes you know what you don't know. And that that's part of the process is to get to that part. Oh, I didn't think about that. Let me go pursue that. So when it when it comes to the process, at which point did you start to feel like you had a good grip on the outside world, the civilian world in where to go and how to position yourself so others can see you for you, not the uniform you were wearing or the rank that you had, I think is going to differ based on folks.

00;29;11;26 - 00;29;44;17 Unknown I would say for me, I'd say it's taken me probably a little over a year, year and a half. But I'm still continue to learn that right? Because, you know, it is a major lifestyle change from the military to the corporate sector and the civilian life. But if I had to say that, you know, if I encourage veterans regardless, like those still in the service to think about getting out, those are transitioning or or those who Rafe transition out, it is, I think, a framework to encourage those folks would be the one is to define what your successes.

00;29;44;19 - 00;30;11;03 Unknown And it's okay not to know initially what your success is. But I think in this discover self discovery process, as you reach out to different veterans and, teammates, former teammates, you're able to get a picture in terms of what you like and what you don't like. And I think it's the first time in your life where the Army or Marine Corps or Uncle Sam does have to tell you, hey, you're going to go to your second choice duty station or your last duty past duty station of choice.

00;30;11;06 - 00;30;35;19 Unknown So I would say that, so you're all thinking about this is to think about the location, think about, you know, the salary, what you're expecting post military and even the type of role and function you might be part of. And it's okay to be really honest, to say to yourself that, hey, if the Marine Corps or Army or whoever plays me into a job function like our MOS, I really didn't want to do, it's okay to say that you didn't want to do it, and you can play it, pivot.

00;30;35;27 - 00;31;08;24 Unknown And whatever your goal you're think of to pivot from what you did to Army or Marine Corps to a completely different function. Whatever you see, the gap is, if any of you need to go to school, which you can definitely leverage your GI Bill. And there are plenty of like, fantastic nonprofit organizations that help both officers and enlisted, especially the enlisted, there are resources such as like, you know, services schools, which is a nonprofit program that helps, veterans, leverage your GI Bill and pivot and serve as advisors and get help them matriculate to the school of their dreams, regardless of rank.

00;31;08;27 - 00;31;30;03 Unknown And they potentially pair you with veterans who've gone through it themselves. So, whether it's parents with enlisted, with enlisted or officer, with officer or so on, so on, that's a fantastic resource that veterans can leverage to use to bridge that gap. And they see an interesting gap between their skills and education to their dream job. But yeah, I would say, number one, define your success.

00;31;30;03 - 00;31;46;24 Unknown And within that success, even if you don't know if that's okay, but just start having conversations with veterans about, you know, what they do, how they get to where they are today. And in those conversations, you're going to be, you know, you'll soon find out in terms of what you're okay with and what you're not okay with.

00;31;46;27 - 00;32;03;24 Unknown Like for me is I know I want to be in the West Coast because my family's in the West Coast. And this time frame, you know, I talk to different veterans in different industries, whether it's consulting, finance, technology and consulting and finance live. But something that I do not want to do with the long hours of any 100 hour work weeks.

00;32;03;24 - 00;32;24;05 Unknown While the salary may be amazing, but the work life fit is horrible. And so the reason why I got out is so that I can be closer to family. And so, you know, for me, and because my interest in technology intrinsically, the technology sector seem to be the best fit, and there are different programs I can help you pivot in the tech space.

00;32;24;05 - 00;32;48;11 Unknown I mean, obviously, Oracle's then our internship program is a fantastic program. I'm a product of that today. For those who aren't familiar with that program or Oracle Veteran Internship program, essentially it's a 12 week internship program to provide corporate experiences and exposure to these transition military veterans, transition veterans, and military spouses. And I would say that the program offers to do three things.

00;32;48;14 - 00;33;13;10 Unknown The ones that validate what you're interested in in tech space. So you're building your industry interest. Second is that you're valuing the job function or role. So I know that a lot of veterans tend to gravitate towards project management. As a go to, as you go to job. But some folks may not enjoy project management. And so but then if you look at the list of what it has to offer, there's so many different roles in the tech space.

00;33;13;12 - 00;33;30;24 Unknown You do sales for the Customer Success Post-sales, but there's so many different job functions that veterans can do and can succeed and do. So with that 12 week internship program, you're able to validate whether this is a particular job role and function that you want to do. And the last aspect is what's not guaranteed. But there's a potential for employment depending on that.

00;33;30;24 - 00;34;04;16 Unknown There is headcount available for that. But there are resources out there to help their, transition into the next, next step. But for those who are interested in technology and interested and having a corporate experience, in a well-organized way, I would definitely strongly encourage Oracle's veteran internship program. There's also a newer, initiative called Cloud Launch for new grads, that's open to both military spouses and veterans, where if if veterans are interested in pursuing a career in sales engineering or cloud architects, it's called cloud launch.

00;34;04;19 - 00;34;29;02 Unknown That's something that's, that's that's a particular path that folks can consider. And I believe there's also something within that suite. I'm not too familiar with that. But from I understand, I think that's what does a lot of, veteran hire initiatives as well, too. But at least for those who are interested in Oracle, you can either choose the Purple Veteran Internship program, which is the cloud launch, and you could have you can also choose and that me and regardless whether yeah, I mean those are just fantastic resources you can consider.

00;34;29;02 - 00;34;52;19 Unknown But there's plenty of options out there. Let me pause right there, Chris. I know there was a lot on one take. Let me know what percentiles I can try to address now. That's good. You just saved me a lot of words because you covered the things that that I was hoping we we could discuss. But going back to one of the options, because I'm curious when when you were thinking about getting out, did you know about skill bridge?

00;34;52;22 - 00;35;21;19 Unknown I did know about Skill Bridge, and I would definitely encourage veterans to definitely leverage that. For me, in terms of my billet, I wasn't really afforded the opportunity to have skill bridge, mainly because it's a high priority billet in terms of I was a part of. And so and it's a lot harder to transition overseas and that I say it's doable for I mean it's I'm sure it's doable for those overseas, but there's a lot more challenging to transition from overseas rather than back in Conus in the United States, continental U.S., actually U.S. soil.

00;35;21;24 - 00;35;43;27 Unknown I would definitely leverage skill bridge if possible, but I recognize that it's unit dependent. So whether you're a baton commander or there needs to be a unit, I mean, it's I'm content on their approval. But if you can, I would strongly, strongly advocate for all veterans, regardless of rank after enlisted to leverage that, because that's a great first taste, corporate sector and kind of the three things I talked about.

00;35;43;27 - 00;36;02;24 Unknown Right. This is a particular entry you want to be a part of. This is a it's a job function that you want to do. And it can be a potential source of employment. Yes. And you landed on the distinction as well as the benefit and that that's part of some of the challenges that service members face is being exposed to those opportunities.

00;36;02;24 - 00;36;23;15 Unknown So I'm very grateful you brought them up because it does matter. The most important component you talked about is when you start to identify your successes, you're going to be able to now relate to opportunities that can continue, that allow you to continue on your successes and that does include the research, the networking, the conversations you have with others so you can learn about those things that you weren't aware of.

00;36;23;15 - 00;36;44;21 Unknown And skill bridge sometimes seems to be something that not every person, every service member is made aware of because of one thing or the other. And so with this conversation and conversations like these, we hope to bring more awareness to those serving so they know what their options include. It's case they're not getting a complete download of of what's available to them.

00;36;44;28 - 00;37;05;28 Unknown So thanks for sharing those things. And how how did you end up hearing about Oracle Veteran Internship Program over it? It kind of goes back to number one and talked about earlier about your network and reaching out. So I went through LinkedIn and I just started looking at veterans in different parts of the industry. And at least in terms of defining my success, I knew I wanted to be in the industry of technology.

00;37;06;01 - 00;37;23;13 Unknown And so I started reaching out to different veterans on LinkedIn and just asking for, hey, whether they were in person, I would be for a cup of coffee, or whether it's just the nature of being so spread out across the states. She's asking for a 15 20 minute chats over zoom or whatever, and some would answer some or not respond.

00;37;23;13 - 00;37;48;07 Unknown You get a mixed bag of responses. But for those who did respond, there was one veteran who responded and he mentioned to me about open. And so I first heard about Covid, probably, ooh, I think that's the fall of 2023. That's when I first heard about that. I actually applied. And for the December winter cohort, I did not get accepted, but I was not deterred by that.

00;37;48;11 - 00;38;07;10 Unknown So I made a stronger application come the second round. And I was fortunate enough to get in. But it's a long way of me of saying I, through a LinkedIn outreach to another veteran, ever veteran, patient forward. That's how I was able to find that open. Yeah, no thanks for sharing that. And there's a couple anomalies inside that before we, transition to close, it's, calling out the distinction between a networking.

00;38;07;10 - 00;38;28;07 Unknown You know, you can get your networking game, improve your networking game, you know, if it's important. Networking and splitting hairs on this. Networking is networking where you're just reaching out and you're trying to establish a basis of connections. And I think that's the distinction. And if we kind of split hairs on words, what you really trying to do is make connections through networking.

00;38;28;10 - 00;38;54;11 Unknown Right? So networking is a process in my mind. Connections is the intended outcome. I want to connect with people that are in a space that I want to get to, or in this case, using a channel like LinkedIn or social media or some other avenue that's available to you, email, text buddies, you know, the buddy system. There's a pass through at some point to where a tool like in this case LinkedIn, becomes almost critical because not everybody uses it.

00;38;54;11 - 00;39;16;05 Unknown Some people will know to set it up, but they don't. As you may have experienced, some of those non-response is include people. Just don't look at it. It's not meaning they're ignoring the messages that come in, but, like anything else, they could also be overwhelmed with the number of questions they get. But it is important that we remember to reach out to those to give people an opportunity to pay it forward.

00;39;16;05 - 00;39;35;16 Unknown Because I love that you said that. Not everybody knows how. Like, what can I do? So as we transition and close out, what are some of the things that you want to leave with the listeners of, you know, not only what you going to do, but what what do you what advice do you give others to to help them understand what they can do to help?

00;39;35;21 - 00;39;56;09 Unknown Yeah, I mean, I think it's it's a good reminder to ourselves that just remember, like we used to be in those other people's shoes initially in terms of getting out sometimes, like whether you're a decade out in terms of the transition or maybe five years or maybe four, maybe just recently. Just remember, in terms of where the other people are coming from, in terms of whether it's a transition and they're going to ask questions.

00;39;56;12 - 00;40;13;02 Unknown And of course, you know, we may be a little impatient in terms of the way they ask questions, maybe a little too direct. There's a there's in the corporate past that we needed. But, you know, we need people where they are. And so I would encourage for folks just to continue to pay it forward, because I would like to think that for where we are today, it's a product.

00;40;13;02 - 00;40;26;18 Unknown We're a product of other people's input that are paying it forward are those who took the time to mentor us, but it's going to pay for, I mean, that's what we're here for. That's what you sign up for in terms of the services to, you know, so it's a is a community service and so committed to the team.

00;40;26;23 - 00;40;46;10 Unknown And so just because we need a uniform, yes. There's an element of we have left the service. But it doesn't really we don't really need it because intrinsically it's but if you've been a part of it, give up our last word. So if you do pay it forward for at least for those who got out, continue to pay it forward and then for those who are transitioning, yeah, I would say classically.

00;40;46;13 - 00;41;09;20 Unknown Yeah. Number one, define your success and be honest yourself. It's okay not to know. And the second thing, for those who are thinking about the practicality out number two is to talk with veterans and different in the transition, especially from. So that way you get a holistic approach of being informed of what it's actually like. So I would say those who recently got out, those were a few years out and those who got out like a ten, like a decade or so more.

00;41;09;20 - 00;41;29;16 Unknown So that way you can have a holistic approach. And the third aspect would just be continue to network and start with the concentric circle model of like start with the family, friends, your former teammates, college alumni that applies to you, and going through at least an outreach. So that way you can help validate, the industry and your own success from those conversations.

00;41;29;18 - 00;42;06;21 Unknown Yeah. It's solid, that sound I will sprinkle in. The three lessons learned also can be universally applicable to this, right? So trust but verify when people are coming to you and they're asking some things and hey, I did this. You trust that they they have because this leads to the next thing. It's okay to sometimes say no and push back on people to do a little bit more diligent effort into preparing, because if you don't do anything and you ask somebody for time, it can lead to being overwhelmed towards, that's maybe why you're not getting the help and support that you expect when people are capable of paying it forward, but sometimes give you the

00;42;06;21 - 00;42;26;10 Unknown impression that they're not because, you know, and that's the last thing is optimistic attitude you expressed that you talked about in 2023. You tried to apply or you applied. Try to get in through all of it because you were wanting to now experience what it was going to be able to provide, and you didn't get the results that you had hoped for.

00;42;26;10 - 00;42;43;19 Unknown So you get back at it and you came back, and now here you are. So great lessons to be learned, great advice, how that you're given. Thank you so much for making time today. Appreciate. You know thank you Chris. And yeah, for those I mean I'm not sure everyone dropped my LinkedIn when I happy to connect with other veterans in thermite LinkedIn and more than happy to help out.

00;42;43;21 - 00;42;58;16 Unknown Okay. Got it. Yeah. So, how we how he's information contact details will be in the podcast description. All right. Howie, appreciate you. Thank you so much. Thanks, Chris. Cardi one keep moving forward.

After serving 36 years in the US Army from 1966 to 2004, with a two-year break in between, SMA Tilley shares invaluable insights into how his military service shaped his life, allowed him to care for others, and inspired his ongoing mission of service through business and nonprofit organizations. He emphasizes the importance of bringing people together and discusses his deep passion for addressing one of our community's most pressing challenges—mental health. SMA Tilley shares a heartfelt story about the power of supporting one another and the impact of collective action the role hope plays in driving meaningful change. From stories that bring smiles to discussions on the traits of effective leaders, the value of teamwork, and the importance of planning and transition, it was an honor to hear from SMA Tilley. It is a rare opportunity to hear experiences of history through a personal perspective and we're grateful for the time SMA Tilley shared with us. https://www.linkedin.com/in/12thsma-jack-tilley/ American Freedom Foundation - https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-freedom-foundation/posts/?feedView=all American Freedom Foundation - https://americanfreedomfoundation.org/ Your Next Mission Podcast - https://www.linkedin.com/company/your-next-mission/posts/?feedView=all Your Next Mission Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/6j5iMzkVBDX4XjgTVQiXOu?si=3168463fdc764529 ------------------------------------------------------------- Podcast Transcript:

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;42;27 Unknown You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by retired 12 Sergeant Major of the Army Jack Tilley. After serving 36 years in the US Army from 1966 to 2004, with a two year break in between Saar Major till, he shares invaluable insights into how his military service shaped his life, allowed him to care for others and inspired his ongoing mission of service through business and nonprofit organizations.

00;00;43;00 - 00;01;03;01 Unknown He emphasizes the importance of bringing people together, and discusses his deep passion for addressing one of our community's most pressing challenges mental health. Sergeant Major Tilley shares a heartfelt story about the power of supporting one another and the impact of collective action and the role hope plays in driving meaningful change. From stories that bring smiles to discussions on the traits of effective leaders.

00;01;03;07 - 00;01;21;06 Unknown The value of teamwork and the importance of planning and transition. It was an honor to hear from Sergeant Major Tilley. It is a rare opportunity to hear experiences of history through a personal perspective, and we're grateful for the time, Sergeant Major Tilley shared with us. We have all we need to become the person we want to be. Let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent.

00;01;21;07 - 00;01;35;14 Unknown As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and please remember to check in on your buddies and family Sergeant Major till these contact details are in the podcast description, and you can always find me on LinkedIn.

00;01;35;16 - 00;01;59;02 Unknown SA major. How are you? Hey! I'm so pumped up here today. I'm excited. Yeah. For all those out there listening, we we almost forgot to hit record. We were going on a good path. Just what we were talking about already. So both of us enthusiastic about being here in the presence of each other to talk about some of the some of the things that are important today and always have been and kind of being transformative and thinking about the future and what we can do to work together.

00;01;59;05 - 00;02;16;07 Unknown So, so our major, you, 30 plus years in the service and you just got done talking about why you join, if you wouldn't mind just going back and rehashing that? Sure. Absolutely. Well, you know, I spent 36 years in the service. People say. They say over 30 years. No, no, I want to make sure you're missing 36 years of service.

00;02;16;09 - 00;02;34;24 Unknown Yeah, I, yeah, I, I wasn't planning on joining the military. In fact, I was, I always tell people I was a terrible kid. I had no direction in life. And I remember when I. When I graduate, I. And I did pretty good. I graduated 117, but I was sitting on the Columbia River and we was all talking about, you know, different things.

00;02;34;24 - 00;02;56;16 Unknown And I was drinking the Olympia Beer Day and somebody said, hey, what are you going to do with your life? I said, well, I don't know. And the guy says, hey, you want to go to college? And I said, hey, guys like me don't go to college. Low self-esteem. Nothing's going right. No direction of life. And then the next guy that it was, I think it was Prentiss Boykin, unfortunately got killed in Vietnam.

00;02;56;16 - 00;03;12;21 Unknown But he said, let's join the military. And I said, sure. Why not? I had no idea that was fighting a war. And so I went basic. I did jump school. And then six months from joining the military, I was, fighting in the streets of, of Vietnam. And in fact, I was in the Tet Offensive in 68.

00;03;12;21 - 00;03;31;15 Unknown That's another story back, back a long time ago. But the big, big change in my life real quick. Oh, I bet. And quick to when we had first talked on your next mission podcast with when you and I were talking about that, you had talked about getting in and then you had gone to Vietnam and you'd come back and you'd gotten out for a short stint.

00;03;31;19 - 00;03;55;01 Unknown What was the decision behind that? Well, a couple of things. One is that, I had a commander that really made me mad, angry, and sometimes in life you let people affect your performance. You know, you said, well, despite you, I'm going to quit this job. Dumbest decision I ever, ever made. So I had a commander that, I didn't like, and I thought I could never deal with a guys like, in the military.

00;03;55;02 - 00;04;15;14 Unknown I said, that's it. I got out and I stayed out about two years, and when I was out, I never really fit in. I mean, I always missed the military. I had a great time in the military. Military was good to me. And so I stayed out about two years and, and I used in fact, I actually drew up the I drove up to Fort Lewis one time on, I was going to, Seattle.

00;04;15;14 - 00;04;34;12 Unknown So I stopped at Fort Lewis and watched these guys train and and do all that stuff, and, you know, and I went back home and I told my wife, I said, jeez. You know, I wouldn't mind going back in service. I mean, it was good for me. And so I went and seen a recruiter and he said, hey, look, you know, you can come back any time you want to do that.

00;04;34;16 - 00;04;53;28 Unknown As a staff sergeant, I got to be a staff sergeant about two and a half years in the military. And so I talked to him, and I left at about, I think it was about 2 or 3 weeks later, he called me on the phone. He said, hey, look, if you come back and within the next 30 days or when you are, if you decide to come back after that, you'll come back in as he want.

00;04;54;00 - 00;05;09;20 Unknown I said, what he said the policy. I said, what do you mean to say right now? You can come back to your, you know, the rank you got lose all your time of grade. But, but if you wait that one month, you come back as a private. I'll start all over again. I said, okay, and about three days later, I was down there at the recruiting station.

00;05;09;26 - 00;05;32;23 Unknown I went over to maps, you know, signed back and did all the testing in and then, you know, got my date to go back into the military. So I came back in. Is this I gotta tell you one funny story. So I got to Fort Jackson, and, and I just fell in with all the privates. And so we're March around doing all the stuff, and then with the, clothing, got my clothing issues, got my uniforms and all that stuff.

00;05;32;23 - 00;05;52;02 Unknown And I was a staff sergeant and a rank on. And so I think it was right after I got my, on my, fatigues at the time, I, first started calling. It's our winner. Is is Tilley. I see us first. Are aren't you a staff sergeant? I said, yeah, he said, then put your rank on. Put the rank up there.

00;05;52;02 - 00;06;10;14 Unknown I said, okay, so I put my rank on, fell back into the formation and there's one private looked at me, says, how did you get to be a staff? Well, that drill sergeant said I was marching real good. And so he promoted. Yeah. Oh yeah. But I had a great time there. So yeah, it's good one. The,

00;06;10;16 - 00;06;27;03 Unknown Well, I have to believe because I, when I went through basic not to reminisce too much about this stuff because it's not where we're going. But there was a, there was a, a man that came in, he was a specialist, and we didn't understand it. And we we kind of figured it out later on how to how to use that.

00;06;27;03 - 00;06;53;29 Unknown So did that how did that affect how everybody else was learning around you at that point? Well, it, you know, I tell you, I didn't have much to do with him. You know, I marched from point A to point B and process. And so they didn't really and I started pulling, CQ at the time, but I didn't they asked me a lot of questions, and I tried to do all I could to help as much as I could, but, you know, that was, you know, you've seen in the first week or so, I think it was a week and a half that you stayed there and then you process out.

00;06;54;06 - 00;07;14;09 Unknown So not, not really, not a whole lot. Yeah. For that time, I didn't have a lot, a lot of interaction with those guys. Okay. Yeah. I was just curious that that kind of had some, some connection later down the road. On how rank helps or hurts learning or, you know, this is probably no one's going to believe me.

00;07;14;10 - 00;07;36;13 Unknown I was never worried about being promoted. I just thought, you are what you are. And everybody, I always tell people you everybody climbs a ladder, and you just get off at different rings in the ladder. And, if I got out of the Army's a staff sergeant, I'd be. I've been content if I got out of the Army as a sergeant first class, I'd have been content, but I never really,

00;07;36;15 - 00;07;59;14 Unknown I just always wanted to do my job and work as hard as I could with the people around. You know, I told people that before, and they probably saying that now. That's baloney. You probably a politician or something. I'm the farthest thing away from a politician. But I just always wanted to work hard because the army, the army, quite frankly, changed my life and allowed me to grow up and develop and see so many things and so many different people I've met throughout my life.

00;07;59;14 - 00;08;15;10 Unknown I, I always used, I told people, even I wrote a book, but in the book I said I went from Vietnam. When I went to Vietnam, I went from 18 to 55. And I grew that much during during war. And, so, you know, the Army was good to me, and I just wanted to do the best I could.

00;08;15;11 - 00;08;32;00 Unknown In fact, we can talk about this later. I never wanted to be the sergeant. I did the Army. I just wanted to be. I was going to get out work for USA because I was working on finding me a job right there, but, yeah, I never, I think people that, people are that, you know, you everybody wants to be promoted.

00;08;32;00 - 00;08;58;16 Unknown And I understand that too. But I think sometimes people get so, so motivated about, hey, I want to move to the next level that they're not very good at the level they're at, if that makes sense, because I'm concerned about, hey, I want to be the boss. Well, to be the boss or to be in charge, you got to do your job the you know better than anybody else, or work with the team and show people that you can develop and motivate and get people to do the best they can within their organization.

00;08;58;18 - 00;09;18;21 Unknown And the ones that the people at throughout my military and in civilian life, the one the people that I run into that are more concerned about promotions or advancement aren't necessarily good leaders. I think sometimes. So you mentioned that and I just I hadn't planned on this. It spurred a thought in my head on focus, focusing on the present.

00;09;18;21 - 00;09;43;20 Unknown Become the master of your craft, what you're doing now and then, things will take care of themselves is kind of how I'm oversimplifying what you're saying. That's exactly what I mean. Just to stay focused in your life, I, I've talked to a lot of people, about this. Stay in your lane of responsibility. And as you get, as you move up in whatever organization is, your lane will open up a little bit more, you'll have more responsibility, and you can help more people.

00;09;43;22 - 00;10;03;28 Unknown But the key to success in, any job that you're doing is people. How do you help the people that are around you? How do you make how do you make them successful? My job as a as a leader or a small business owner or even just outside the army? It's not about me. It's about how do I make the people that I'm working with more successful so they can take my job?

00;10;04;01 - 00;10;22;23 Unknown You know, they sort of push me out, you know? So it's about it's about people and their families and and treating them with dignity, respect and, and just getting the best at them. And another thing I, I like the dog. You see this. But the other thing is how do you motivate people that are around you to get the best out of them?

00;10;22;26 - 00;10;42;08 Unknown You know what? Everybody is motivated by something different. You know, some people you can pat on the back, some people got a kick in the backside. But how do you get the best out of those people? And and as a leader, you've got to look at those people, see where they fit. You know, where, you know, I may not be the best mechanic, but I'm a good cook, you know what I mean?

00;10;42;08 - 00;11;07;08 Unknown I might not be the best salesman, but I'm the best. Whatever. But you can find out where they fit in in life and and, you know, sort of pat them on the back and push them up and, and stand them up and make them feel good about yourself. No, I like that. And thank you for that because you're however however that came to you, it's still how it is today for many of us, if not all of us, that they they kind of split up to two different types of people.

00;11;07;08 - 00;11;33;26 Unknown You got some that believe that and understand that to be for what it is. And they they wholeheartedly invested in that mindset of understanding that so much that they it's they embody it. And then you have ones that have more of a theoretical understanding on what that means. And then it's awkward. Sometimes it's clumsy as a leader to be able to try to do those things, which is that reciprocating lesson that's learned is I'm learning how to become a good leader by having been put in a position to lead you.

00;11;33;28 - 00;11;51;16 Unknown And so we're going to make mistakes together, and then we're going to just kind of reciprocate that effort to to learn. Either way. How does that how does that look in today's world when we're thinking about the first thing that you had mentioned, we're we're conditioned to focus on where we are so we can be mission ready, paying attention to what's going on.

00;11;51;18 - 00;12;12;19 Unknown But then as we get near transition and I'm we're going to jump around a little bit, we're going to when we get near near transition, we still embody that same mindset. We're not looking ahead to prepare for that next step, which is the hardest. Yeah. Well the problem is and I'm glad you're talking about transition. The problem in transition is, is you don't want to pull away.

00;12;12;21 - 00;12;26;05 Unknown You want to keep doing your job. And you say, man, they can't they can't do that job without me. And I've got to be there every day. In reality, that you're going to, you know, a lot of I can't remember the actual number, you know, a couple hundred thousand, I guess, get out of the military every year.

00;12;26;08 - 00;12;42;03 Unknown But, what you've got to do is you you need to start that transition process about two years out. And I think what happens is people don't do that. So what do you do in that two years out? Well, finish up your degree. If you got an associate's get a bachelors. If you got a bachelors, get a master's.

00;12;42;08 - 00;13;04;02 Unknown So focus on all that stuff and make sure that if you have any bills, pay all your bills, put money aside, know where you want to live, you know, start, have a good resume. There's so many things that you ought to do. I think the people that, that don't transition very well is the ones that wait until the last 30 days or the last 60 days, to get out of the service.

00;13;04;02 - 00;13;24;03 Unknown And they're scrambling, don't know what they're going to do, and they're confused. And I'm going to say one more thing, too, is, is that, I've talked a lot about on my show, on a podcast about the fact that we have about 200,000 people incarcerated that are veterans, and about 86,000 are homeless, but more than 125,000 and probably that number is a little larger now.

00;13;24;06 - 00;13;47;14 Unknown But more than 125,000 and taken a life by suicide. And you go back and start thinking about transition. Why do they do those kind of things? It's because they don't fit back into society and they're struggling and there's nobody to talk to. And, for the people a little less than a day, there's a lot of veterans out there that, that are your friend or your brother or your sister that'll listen to you and try to help you out as much as you can.

00;13;47;14 - 00;14;08;15 Unknown So talk to them. You're not alone. Everybody goes through struggles. You, me and everybody else. Reach out to somebody and talk to them about whatever those issues are. Special on that transition. And then the last thing I just say about transition, I, I was very lucky because I retired as a sergeant major of the Army. And so I know there's a lot of doors open for me that there may not be open for a lot of people.

00;14;08;16 - 00;14;35;26 Unknown I understand that because I'm certainly not going to be anybody else. But the fact of the matter is, I used to look for companies that had, leadership that are veterans, maybe an owner of a company or an a senior leadership within that organization. And if you can find those, even Google those on the, on the website, say, you know, veteran owned companies or people who had a veteran lead or whatever, reach out to those guys and, and make sure you reach out and tell them about your military service and charm you.

00;14;35;26 - 00;14;56;07 Unknown 214 and have a resume and and, and they'll help you out as much as they can. But you may not. Again, going back to where you fit, you may not be a good fit for that organization, but I guarantee you they'll probably help you go somewhere else. I'm going to kind of just unload the list of things in my head at this point that hopefully we can touch on is, how do you determine the fit?

00;14;56;09 - 00;15;11;20 Unknown A lot of the struggle is is deciding that what I did is what I need to do in the future. And we we know differently. We know that you don't have to do that. You can go ahead and figure out how to do something different, what you want to do. It's an opportunity to recreate who you want to be, what you want to do.

00;15;11;22 - 00;15;40;16 Unknown And then you talked about big picture early on in the conversation. You're talking about those that can understand the big picture. That's an acquired skill set that is done through connecting with others by having the mentors, which we talked about before. So on those two topics themselves, when you're saying two years out, how do you learn about what you yourself is going to need if if you think that you don't need it, hopefully that translates.

00;15;40;19 - 00;15;56;23 Unknown No, no. I said, well, I think the key to success, I think that, yeah, but we talked about a minute ago, we talked about before too, is you gotta have a mentor. So I tell you, I always said you need to have 2 or 3 mentors. So I have somebody that's already been in the service that got out of the service that you can reach out and talk to about.

00;15;56;23 - 00;16;18;06 Unknown Hey, look, I'm thinking about doing this or I'm thinking to do that and just sort of talk about those kind of things, before you get out of the service. But. And then the other thing I do is, I talk to my wife a lot. I've been married. I'm married a long time anyway. But I talk to my wife about what we need to do as a family because, you know, you had a team in the military of all these people around you.

00;16;18;06 - 00;16;35;13 Unknown But when you get out of the team that you have is your family to. And you got to make sure they're involved in that discussion. And then the other thing is, is, a lot of people set expectation expectations, I think just a little bit too, you know, they want to get out, make, 2 or $300,000.

00;16;35;15 - 00;16;53;19 Unknown Again, it goes back to where do you fit in? How do you grow? How do you develop? How are you preparing yourself for success? Just because you, as a senior NCO in the Army or in the military, Navy, Marine Corps, whatever. But, senior is your senior officer doesn't mean that you're going to have the ideal job when you get out of the military.

00;16;53;23 - 00;17;14;20 Unknown You have to go back and and prove yourself again that you have those qualifications. So, yeah, it's there's a it's it's, because of what the military teaches you, you have a lot of leadership, a lot of a lot of things that you can share with any organization. So I think that's a that's a strength for, all the people that served in the military.

00;17;14;22 - 00;17;40;14 Unknown Yeah. Thanks for that. And congratulations. Is it 58 years? 55. It was five years this year. But who's counting? The 709 58. Congratulation. You may be out of here now. You know, I, I tell you what, I tell people this all the time, too. Is that, nobody is successful by themselves. I have came home so many times and told my wife, you know, I can't believe what this guy did today.

00;17;40;17 - 00;18;03;09 Unknown And she'd say, well, Jack, I thought you did that once. And I'd say, well, wait a minute, that was different. Well, the answer is you need somebody that gives you checks and balances. You know, you get. I used to tell people all the time that every time you're promoted, your head swells a little bit, you know, in your head gets and you think you're smarter and smarter and smarter.

00;18;03;12 - 00;18;19;19 Unknown And the answer is you're no different than you was yesterday. You just got a different job. I get it. I'll tell you another funny story. I was, down at Fort Knox when I was, competing for to start my the Army and I. And I was a Centcom sergeant major, so I was working at a four star level there.

00;18;19;22 - 00;18;38;18 Unknown And, I went into this conference, and they had my seat all the way down at the end of the table. Not you, I don't care. And so I bring up, talking points and things I think you ought to do is the armored community and that sort of. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's good. Yeah. That's good. That just, you know, that sort of was nice to me and all that stuff.

00;18;38;20 - 00;18;56;14 Unknown Well, that evening they announced that I was a sergeant major in the Army, and I was the next election to start major. So the next day I came to the conference. My chair was right dead in the center. And everything I said was the smartest guy in the world. The answer was I hadn't changed from yesterday. All right.

00;18;56;19 - 00;19;13;03 Unknown So, the if you want to be a good leader, be a good listener and be a good communicator and be able to say, hey, I was wrong about this is probably a better way to do it. And when somebody comes up with a good idea and it's not your idea, give him credit for. Hey, that's a great idea.

00;19;13;03 - 00;19;31;22 Unknown Let's do that. She's okay. Let's go. Let's move out. Don't be afraid. I mean, again, we're successful because all the people around us, you know, use their brains, you know, use their ideas in your thought. And if you do that, then you'll grow as a team and you'll develop, and it'll get better and better and better and better all the way through there.

00;19;31;22 - 00;19;50;13 Unknown So I've always I was, when I first got to be to start, maybe there's two things I really wanted to work on real quickly. One was, I wanted to bring all senior in sales to one location, at down at Fort Bliss. And I said, hey, we're going to have a conference are meeting, and somebody says, who's going to pay for it?

00;19;50;13 - 00;20;12;17 Unknown I said, well, I don't care. And then the second thing I want to do is start a NCO and soldier of the year program for the United States Army, for the Army bring Army. And I was able to accomplish that. The first year or so in the Army. But, I put all those senior and chosen together in one location, and it was just, one star and above, but all in one location.

00;20;12;17 - 00;20;30;15 Unknown And they asked a guard reserve and all the rest of them, and I did that. So, so we could build a team, a stronger team. And we we did a golf ID event. We went out to dinner and we did. We got stronger and stronger as we went along and we really worked with each other. So I thought it it and they're still doing that now or continuing to do it.

00;20;30;15 - 00;20;58;22 Unknown So I think it builds a stronger team anyway. It does. And it was obviously I think you and I are similar in that sense. The value of bringing people together is sometimes uncomfortable. It may be, when when you are indicated like what you said, if you find yourself without saying it, but doing it is to be the most humble person in the room where you can hear feedback and you can see that other people have great ideas and you're willing to share that credit or give that credit instead of taking it, then it becomes simpler.

00;20;58;27 - 00;21;17;17 Unknown The further the further you get away from actually have to decide or do things, because the team around you is is activating its where everything gets set as the example of what you want to achieve as a leader, I would imagine. Yeah, yeah. No I'm sorry. The I think the other thing is that they have to trust you.

00;21;17;19 - 00;21;30;19 Unknown If they don't trust you, then they're not going to support you. And they got to believe that, you know, if I say something as a leader, if I say something, I'm going to do it. If I say, hey, I'm going to be here at 8:00, a little small thing about 8:00, I'm going to be there at 750, probably.

00;21;30;21 - 00;21;49;26 Unknown Right? Yeah. But if you put the word out, if you say something, do it. And if you can't do it, go back and tell them, hey, look, I tried to do this, I couldn't accomplishment, and this is the reason why we can go with a different route. But here's where I am right now. And I think a lot of people, just listen.

00;21;50;03 - 00;22;03;05 Unknown Yeah, I got it and then move out. I used to, when I used to travel, I used to have a couple of trip coordinators. They'd be with you and they'd take notes. Everything that anybody put out. And when we got back, I'd say, okay, what's, you know, what's what do we have to do? What do we have to accomplish?

00;22;03;12 - 00;22;22;04 Unknown And I'll be damned, they they better get every one of those accomplished. At least go back and say, look, we're working on this is where we're at. Here's what we're going to do. And somebody called, the officer said, I have a problem this summer. I wouldn't just drop it. I'd get them to the right location and then, write it down, somebody to go back, say, hey, if we accomplish this, you know what?

00;22;22;04 - 00;22;42;01 Unknown It's finished. Come back and tell me what's going on. And I think a lot of times somebody will have an issue and they'll put it out there and they'll just sort of say, okay, that's your issue. I'm done. You're not done. You're not done until it's accomplished. Even though you gave it to somebody else. Reminds me of the story that I think I shared with you because of what you just said.

00;22;42;08 - 00;23;01;06 Unknown You know, you're going to if you're going to be the good listener and you're going to take in the input, you better act on it. So they see that it's actually, so in the early early 90s, I was in Korea and I was doing the, the soldier of the quarter, soldiers of the month, been going all the way up to the, you know, company, battalion, brigade, so on and so forth.

00;23;01;06 - 00;23;21;19 Unknown While I earned, earned a spot to have dinner with Sergeant Major, Army kid. Oh, yeah. You get squared away guy. Yeah. So it and, you know, I was allowed to bring two soldiers with me. So I found, you know, the two that that I wanted to bring with me. And they shut down the dining facility after hours where it was, me sergeant made an Army kid.

00;23;21;26 - 00;23;43;13 Unknown So major mixology and, I was just playing golf with him. Great. Go away. Yeah, just play golf for the last week, I was. It's amazing. I'll. I'll send you a picture if you'll take it. I'll send you a picture of us together. Back in 1999. Sure. Yeah, that'd be great. So we were sitting there and he asked the question, you know, so what?

00;23;43;16 - 00;24;01;09 Unknown What can I do for you? Some along the lines. What can I do for you? Or, you know, what's on your mind? Something like that. And the short story is, you know, the camp that we were on had a real small, fitness facility. Jim had 1 or 2 things that had the universal weights, you know, the stuff that you saw in high school back in those days.

00;24;01;09 - 00;24;17;27 Unknown Well, I asked, you have free weights if we can get some dumbbells, that would be great. And I compared it to the camp that was next to us, who's obviously had more budget, whatever. So he listen, I gave the example and I'm not going to tell you what the example is because I don't want to embarrass myself. But, you know, he they were confused.

00;24;17;27 - 00;24;33;24 Unknown They scoffed at it. I could tell now. I could tell what they were. What they heard was ridiculous. But the next day, the lieutenant or, XO come over and or the platoon leader came over and and called me out of formation. So I came over to him, says, let's go. Getting the Humvees is, where are we going, sir?

00;24;33;24 - 00;24;51;03 Unknown And he says, we're going to get your weights. And he said it in such a way that I, I didn't see it as the thing that I had hoped to happen coming, come to fruition. So, so as we're driving, we're going downtown Korea to try to find a place to buy the dumbbells. And I asked him, I said, so how many we get?

00;24;51;03 - 00;25;11;10 Unknown And he goes, well, we have $50. That's like, okay, all right. So we ended up being able to afford one dumbbell, which we ended up bringing back. And we kind of it didn't serve its purpose, but it was the running joke as to, you know, careful what you say. Prepare the UN, but also know that somebody worth their salt is going to follow through on that commitment.

00;25;11;10 - 00;25;27;27 Unknown So the thing that I learned is he felt he followed through well, the thing about it, the other thing is, is take good notes. Could have been when you go back to their ask those questions. Hey, last time I was here, you had, this, this and this, and. Hey, what's the status of that now? Yeah, the,

00;25;27;29 - 00;25;48;26 Unknown Yeah, I used to follow that people to go wild. And how do you remember that? Well, you know, we keep notes and stuff. So when I come back, I'm going to make sure I ask those questions. So. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sergeant major, I got to tell you funny story about him when he was, he come to Germany when I was a division soccer major and we hosted him, and, so we took him around and showed him the division, did all that stuff.

00;25;48;26 - 00;26;08;29 Unknown And so we got to, Graff and beer, gave him a briefing and all that stuff. He's. He's really a great guy. And, so we got ready to go that they had these green old German bus, vans. Most of the time they wouldn't run very good. So I say, Sergeant Major, I'll see you later. Got him in the van, closed the door, and drivers tried to start the vehicle.

00;26;08;29 - 00;26;25;02 Unknown I wouldn't start, so. Oh, I can't believe it. And so I said, hey, guys, Sergeant major, don't worry about it. We'll get you. Go. We'll push this van and get it going. So I had all the sergeant major back there pushing and we started pushing. And I looked at my left and there were Sergeant major. Can't push him wrong with me.

00;26;25;04 - 00;26;43;00 Unknown It's nice. And it started up. He jumped in. See you guys later, Dick. So yeah, he's quite a guy. He's really a good guy. Yeah, it was a good time. It's a good time. So since we're talking about it, maybe some folks listening aren't as familiar, but what what is the role? Or at least when you were disarming an army.

00;26;43;01 - 00;27;03;28 Unknown What what was the role and and what what did it serve for the community? Well, first of all, the sergeant, the army, it was the voice of the noncommissioned officer corps. So I routinely testified in front of Congress, usually once or twice a year. And when Congress were to have issues or concerns about stuff, he'd come down through my office and we'd, you know, check it out, see what the issues so that's the first thing.

00;27;04;03 - 00;27;24;27 Unknown And also inform the secretary of the Army, Secretary of Defense, the chief of staff, the Army, the division staff or the, the Pentagon staff there, or the Army staff about what's going on. And I traveled all the time, and I traveled, I think it was 800,000 miles and three and a half years. And what I do is I go to all these, installations and talk to not just senior NCO.

00;27;25;03 - 00;27;43;27 Unknown It's all soldiers and take good notes and find out what the concerns was within the army. And, that's what I did. I sort of flowed information back and forth, you know, what's the issues? And and it worked out pretty good. Biggest complaint is always the same thing. It hadn't changed a day. The biggest complaint was money.

00;27;43;29 - 00;28;04;25 Unknown Oh. At the time, an E9 would make, I think, I think base pay for an E9 was, $3,000 and $31 a month. That was his base pay. A captain made more than him. So during my period of time, I started by the Army. We went from, I think it was 3430 $400 to over $5,000, base pay.

00;28;04;25 - 00;28;22;20 Unknown So we got a pretty good chunk of rise. But it wasn't just them. We had, a targeted pay from E4 or five, six, seven, 8 or 9. And what I always thought was a buy went from 4 to 5. I should get 5 or 6. Seven or dollars, pay a 6 to 7, same thing. And so we worked real hard on pay and quality of life stuff.

00;28;22;20 - 00;28;50;19 Unknown That was really my focus in the time you were in. I mean, that's a significant timeline. So if we can talk about readiness and how significant events changed the trajectory of our readiness. So you were Saam rated Army from 2000 to 2004. So before before 2000, you stepped into the role. And then what occurred during that timeline, can you share with us the significance of what you now had to undertake?

00;28;50;22 - 00;29;14;12 Unknown Well, when I first got there, you know, I got into 2000, but, you know, of course 911 happened. That was, you know, when the plane hit the Pentagon and, we went to war. That was a, you know, one of the biggest things that happened to me, in fact, in fact, I'll never forget that day I was sitting in my office, and, David, Chad, which was the public affairs called me, says, you got to turn on the TV.

00;29;14;12 - 00;29;29;11 Unknown And I did, and I turned to watch the, plane hit up in New York, and I went out the office. I said, hey, look, this is not a mistake. Something's going on. I had to go to Fort Meyer to speak to somebody. And when I was going to Fort Myers and I finished talking, I was coming down the hill.

00;29;29;11 - 00;29;51;25 Unknown That plane actually hit. And then I went back over there, went back into the Pentagon, made sure all the everybody was out of their offices. And I went around to the front of the, of the building where the plane had hit. And I went back in with General and Austin. We sort of worked our way, to the, the wreckage there and probably about 30 or 40ft or so.

00;29;51;25 - 00;30;12;23 Unknown Smoke it. We couldn't go any farther because we want to see if we can get anybody out. And then of course, there was mass confusion. And then we we came back out and people were running everywhere. Anyway, it was just a terrible day for our country. You know what bothers me when I talk about 911? What bothers me is, is, how quickly we forgot about what happened on that day.

00;30;12;25 - 00;30;34;20 Unknown And, the lives are lost, not just, you know, Pennsylvania, New York and the Pentagon, but it's, you know, for 3 or 4 days in a life, we, the country, the country, I think, pulled together real close with everybody. And we all wanted to help each other out. And we're all Americans and all that stuff. And then after 3 or 4 days, we all sort of went our separate ways again.

00;30;34;23 - 00;30;51;21 Unknown And it was just again, it was just a tough time, not just 911, you know, we got an award we're deploying, you know, a lot of stuff. And so the rest of my time in the military is usually deployed in and going and checking on troops and see how everybody was doing over there. So I stay pretty active, like I said, traveled about 8 or 9000 miles.

00;30;51;21 - 00;31;21;28 Unknown But it was a blast. Half of my time in Sergeant Major, I was a little rough. Yeah, I can imagine. And thanks for your leadership before, after and during. Of course, because it I think when I had first met you, you know, it hit me because I, you know, after being out for as long as I have there's a, there is a, a point to which you, you feel disconnected on certain things, reminding you of what you used to do and who used to do it with, and those types of things.

00;31;21;28 - 00;31;51;07 Unknown And the subtle reminder, especially generational. So in my era, getting out in the 90s, you know, it's it becomes more challenging to be more connected to where, where things are today and things like that. And so it served as a subtle reminder of connection on the level of difficulty of what you and many others had experienced during that time line, but how it shifted the attention to to be more prepared and, and then focus on the things that we had learned through those last 15 to 20 years to transform and become the force that we, we, we want to be.

00;31;51;08 - 00;32;15;23 Unknown We need to be and then take it into transition. So as you've now been out a couple of decades, taking that, taking that lesson in those lessons and what you're doing now, let's let's talk about that. On how how it drives you to continue to want to do what you do. Well, the, well, I, I don't know, I, I love the Army.

00;32;15;23 - 00;32;40;28 Unknown And I think, again, I said before the Army changed my life and helped me so much. And it's all part of my family will always be part of my family. And so I want to do all I can to help veterans and families as much as I can till the day I die. And there's a lot of people just out there struggling, and they just don't, sometimes they sometimes they struggle and they don't know why, and they don't know why they don't fit in.

00;32;41;00 - 00;32;58;05 Unknown And, they don't know who to talk to about whatever the issues are. So from my little perspective, you know, doing our podcast or doing our hiring events or whatever, I just want to do all I can to help the veteran community. And I said it already, we as a veteran community, we need to pull together and put our arms together.

00;32;58;05 - 00;33;14;03 Unknown Whether or not you spent three years or are 36 years in the military, put our arms together and sort of talk to each other and help each other out as much as we can, because I know I get it. I tell people all the time, I'll help you with everything. You know, everything, anything, anything I can help you with, I'll certainly.

00;33;14;03 - 00;33;30;14 Unknown I'll be out. Don't think I won't do it. Gives me a bunch of money. I'll only give it to my grandkids and stuff. There. There's nothing wrong with that money now, but, But I just. I just think we gotta work together as a team, and I think we're missing the bullets sometimes. I came back backing up here a little bit.

00;33;30;16 - 00;33;50;03 Unknown I came back out of Vietnam, and I had anger issues for about 5 or 6 years where I struggled just fitting in. And it wouldn't take much to do, to set me off about stuff. And so that was me. And I know there's a lot of men and women that get out that just struggle and just try to find the right space where they fit in.

00;33;50;03 - 00;34;14;07 Unknown And, and I just sometimes I worry that we're just not doing enough, but we're not doing enough because we won't pull together. We just got to pull together a lot more. Yeah, and thanks for that. And that. And you're right. And then when you look at some of the I mean, the statistics help support, I guess putting something in a perspective that allows us it's tangible, right?

00;34;14;07 - 00;34;36;01 Unknown When we have a number and something hard to look at, it's the intangible things that are very challenging, you know, with over 47,000 organizations focused on a military affiliated community, what are your thoughts on how to bring people together when there's so many choices out there for, I mean, how would a service member that isn't doesn't have a mentor or hasn't thought about these things?

00;34;36;01 - 00;34;58;16 Unknown Maybe it's early career young enlisted junior junior officers, whoever. How do we make a decision or determine where to go first? With so many options? Yeah, that that really makes it tough. You got to do what's right for you. However, I think, somebody like me go to your next mission podcast on me, follow me on podcast, listen to the podcast, do whatever.

00;34;58;18 - 00;35;14;13 Unknown We're we're growing every day. We're growing. We probably get it. We probably get 100 followers a week or something like that. But, we're growing every day, and I guarantee you, if we can get. You know, I've always said to everybody, if we can get a million or a couple million people, that that'll follow us. Numbers count.

00;35;14;14 - 00;35;30;29 Unknown People listen to numbers. And if you got those numbers, then you can you can enforce a lot of stuff. That's what we got to do. Whether or not you're fallen AUSA or NCUA or whatever organization want to follow, that's fine. That's great. But we have to have one spot, one sweet spot for all of us to pull together.

00;35;30;29 - 00;35;53;00 Unknown I don't think we've I don't think we've found that sweet spot. Yeah. You're right. And so you have the American Freedom Foundation. Talk about that a little bit and then see if we can't get you to that million followers. Yeah. Well we, we, we start off by doing, we start off by doing concerts with me and Ted and, you know, we did a concert for about ten years.

00;35;53;03 - 00;36;12;27 Unknown Alan Jackson trace action. James out of Martina McBride. Lee and and was able to give away about $13 million. You know what was doing that? But all the concerts and stuff like that. But, I don't know. I think there's just a lot of people that struggle, that just I, I just don't I just don't want to pull together.

00;36;12;27 - 00;36;28;20 Unknown I think they get out and they, they look at the bad stuff versus the positive things in life. You've got to look at the good stuff. Everybody's going to have a hiccup in life goes up and it comes down. Everybody's going to have problems. Everybody's going to have issues. But don't dwell on the it. Don't dwell on the bad things.

00;36;28;21 - 00;36;50;22 Unknown Well, you know, think about the positive things and keep a positive attitude. I think as long as you do that, you certainly should be okay. I hope he is okay anyway. Yeah. Hope. Hope. Give people hope. Yeah. That being said, anything to close it out. So our amazing. Well, the, I think I told you on the I have to tell you about my son Brian, I think I did.

00;36;50;22 - 00;37;11;14 Unknown I told you, should I tell you about Brian? Briefly. But, if you could. Well, I tell you, I, I talk about, well, I, I don't think there's, I don't think there's a person I know that has went to war that doesn't get closer to God. And every time somebody struggles, or something's gone wrong, they get the, you know, they say a prayer.

00;37;11;14 - 00;37;32;19 Unknown And I'm no different than anybody else, you know, probably about the most religious person in the world. But I'll tell you a story, something to happen to me. I, I had my oldest son had pneumococcus meningitis, left him, temporarily blind, temporarily deaf, 20 to 30 convulsions a day. And, and quite frankly, it's hard for me to tell a story.

00;37;32;19 - 00;37;52;15 Unknown Usually I don't cry or tear up a little bit of struggle through it, but. But I always thought you'd die. By the time he was 7 or 8 years old, and, and my, my wife talked to, she said, just keep doing your job, stay focused in life. You know, it's about, it's about God. It's about believing.

00;37;52;15 - 00;38;19;07 Unknown It's about doing what's right for, you know, your fellow man and woman. And I remember I went to Fort Lewis was like, I was at Fort Lewis, and Brian was at the Madigan Hospital there was it, was in that community anyway. And, I went to tag gunner and my wife called me, says, now this is after you had meningitis, came holidays on like 4 or 5 different kinds of medication that control seizures and is here and was coming out left.

00;38;19;08 - 00;38;38;26 Unknown And seven years is trying to grow up again. And and my wife called me says Brian sick again and said, what's wrong? See what I know? And I said, well, let me, let me ask the first sergeant. So I'd come home. And so, of course, I hustle and home. I can't remember how far Jack Ma was, which is a few hours drive away.

00;38;38;28 - 00;38;58;06 Unknown And I went home and I went right to the Madigan Hospital, and I seen the doctor and I said, hey, doc, what's going to happen? And, you know, it's not you know, it's, now those are tough. I can't we're talking about struggle and and try to get through everything you're doing and being a soldier and taking care of your family and doing all those things.

00;38;58;06 - 00;39;33;03 Unknown And so, doc, what's going to happen? And he said, I don't know. And so I did what anybody else did. I went found me a chapel, a small annex at the Madigan Hospital. And I got down on my hands and knees and I said, God, either let him live or let him die. It's not fair that, that he's going through this, that again of the time he is having these, you know, 5 to 15 seizures a day and just a little small seizures and all that, all this medication and, and, and we don't know if he's going to make it.

00;39;33;06 - 00;39;43;05 Unknown And so I said a prayer, and the next day they got another order.

00;39;43;08 - 00;40;11;09 Unknown And so, I tell people all the time that, everybody struggles. But you got to believe. I believe in life, believe in God and believe in yourself. And it'll. And you can work through it. But, you just can't just can't quit. And that's, that's the thing that I tell everybody, just don't quit. Just keep keep moving forward.

00;40;11;09 - 00;40;31;18 Unknown And and if it would have turned out bad, okay, so be it. But but it didn't. It didn't. So believing in yourself, believing a lie, believing in God, believing that you can do anything that you want to do. But the only thing it stops you is, is you. You got to believe.

00;40;31;20 - 00;40;57;11 Unknown Thank you, Sergeant Major. Thank you for the story. Well, that's that's, that's that's being real open with everybody. And and you got to open with people and tell me how you feel. So, just, again, we all struggle. Everybody struggles, but but help each other out. That's the key to success in life. And we'll leave it there.

00;40;57;13 - 00;41;05;26 Unknown So our major thank you so much. Appreciate it. God bless and have a good one.

Get ready for an unforgettable journey as Matthew, a master storyteller, takes us through the pivotal moments in his life, revealing how his foundation shaped his choices and kept him grounded in treating others with respect. From life-changing turning points to moments that truly matter, Matthew opens up about how each experience led to incredible opportunities for growth. We dive into the life of a military family, where sacrifice goes far beyond the military. Sometimes, it's not the first bump in the road that wakes you up! Join us as Matthew brings us on a ride full of real, relatable moments that will resonate with many while putting a smile on your face. You won't want to miss this! And check out the links to watch Matthew in action in an Air Force Recruiting documentary. https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrricematthew/ Chapter Two: Shock and Awe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TUc9ZYWF9Y&t=2216s Chapter Three: Chow Runners Go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hwUq2RTrvo Chapter Four: The Weakness of One https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DAHXn1WL5w&t=2520s

Dante discusses how he recognized his unique ability to stand out early on and how he learned to use his skills and share those lessons to help others. With a strong sense of purpose and selflessness, Dante expresses his deep gratitude for the community who saw his potential and nurtured his talent and the mentors who guided him through his journey. We explore key topics such as mentorship, leadership, knowing your worth, and dive into the specifics of Skillbridge—a program designed to help service members transition to civilian careers. Dante shares invaluable insights on how to define your "why," plan effectively, and execute that plan when transitioning out of the military and beyond. https://www.linkedin.com/in/danteestwick/