Ben works with athletes including the Richmond Football Club and surfer Steph Gilmore in a counter-intuitive way. He helps them own their flaws, and find an intrinsic purpose so they can take both wins and losses in their stride. Ash Barty credits Ben with helping her become World Number 1

Ben is Ash’s ‘mindset coach’ and she credits him with helping her become World Number 1.

But the approach he brings is counter-intuitive, rather than telling these elite sportspeople they're the best, Ben encourages them to see themselves as vulnerable and in need of human connection.

To binge even more great episodes of the ‘Conversations podcast’ with Richard Fidler and Sarah Kanowski go the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts. There you’ll find hundreds of the best thought-provoking interviews with authors, writers, artists, politicians, singers, psychologists, musicians, and celebrities.