In this episode, Shelby addresses the issue of mental health for entrepreneurs. Shelby is joined by Jenn Betts, Registered Psychologist, Founder, and CEO of the Calgary Institute of Counselling. Shelby and Jenn discuss the importance of addressing mental health in both our personal and professional lives; Jenn promotes the idea that we are not on this journey alone and that we thrive when we have the right team to support us on both a personal and professional level. 

Jenn discusses her profession as a psychologist and the belief that to serve their clients properly, psychologists need to find support and counselling to deal with their own mental health. She also discusses the difficulty female entrepreneurs experience, wearing multiple hats as mothers, wives, and business people. Through her own journey of entrepreneurship, which she started just before the pandemic, she learned that business owners need the support of a team to help them on their journey. While a business coach can help with professional growth, nurturing and caring for your own physical and mental health is key to success. 

Shelby and Jenn discuss mental health in the workplace and helpful steps to support employees at work. Betts suggests that while we are now openly talking about mental health, we are still a long way from implementing proper measures to promote it. She recommends providing employees with access to psychological support and offering long-term help when needed. Team-building exercises, company events, and even small gestures to acknowledge and show appreciation for employees can improve their mental health and boost morale, allowing them to live happier, more fulfilled lives.

About Jenn Betts 

Jenn Betts is the Founder and CEO of the Calgary Institute of Counselling. With over a decade of experience in counselling, she leads a team of psychologists who strive to bring impactful change to the lives of their clients. 

Jenn takes an empathetic and collaborative approach in her practice and creates a place of emotional safety for her clients. Her training includes Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, Emotion Focused Therapy, and Gottman Couples Counselling and she provides therapy for individuals as well as couples.

Jenn is passionate about moving mental health from simply a conversation to more concrete action to generate significant change in the wider community. She advocates for more mental support for society as a whole and consults with businesses, educational establishments, and faith organizations to incorporate mental health into their culture. 

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Contact Shelby Joines | Joines Administration: 

• Website: JoinesAdministration.ca
• LinkedIn: Joines Administration
• Instagram: @JoinesAdministration
• Facebook: @JoinesAdministration

Contact Jenn Betts | Calgary Institute of Counselling: 

• Website: counsellinginstitute.ca
• Instagram: @counsellinginstitute
• Facebook: @counsellinginstitute
• LinkedIn: Calgary Institute of Counselling

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Transcript

Shelby 00:07

Hello, and welcome back everybody to another amazing episode on she's got this a journey to success. Now this is a great and exciting episode today because we have a guest joining us. Jenn Betts with the Calgary Institute of Counseling will be coming on with us and sharing a whole bunch of insight about how having a solid support team behind you as an entrepreneur is crucial to keeping your mental health wellness in check. So don't go anywhere. We're going to start diving into all of this right now.

Shelby 00:46

Okay, we have our special guest Jenn Betts here today, I am so thrilled to have you as a guest on my podcast, “She's Got This: A Journey to Success” today. I have been a huge follower of you on Instagram and with the beauty of social media, we were able to connect and get an amazing episode together for our listeners and share some insanely beautiful and important knowledge when it comes to mental health and all things seeking that little bit of extra support outside of your business and bringing that in. So Jen, what can you tell me about yourself? Let's do a little bit of an introduction… how you started getting into this sphere of work… who you are, all the goodies. 

Jenn 01:38

Oh, thanks so much for having me, Shelby, I'm really happy to be here. I'm so happy to be talking about mental health today. My journey as a psychologist started many, many years ago. I took a BA in psychology and then was working with some clients and they were facing unplanned pregnancies. And I can clearly remember the moment when all of a sudden I felt stuck with these teenage girls that were getting pregnant, didn't know what to do, and I was like, giving them clothing, giving them food bank hampers… that is not going to help them in the long run. We need to figure out where all this is coming from, why are they getting pregnant at 13? What is happening here? And so then I realized I needed to go back and get my master's. So I went back, got my master's, then registered as a psychologist, worked at an agency as a contractor for six or seven years. Then I realized something in the mental health world needed to change. I myself have seen a lot of terrible psychologists out there. There's a problem in every field, right? Like there's… in hairdressing, as a lawyer, whatever it is, right? There's always those bad apples. And so I realized I needed to start an agency. I needed to train up strong and ethical psychologists. I was tired of hearing my clients saying I went to so and so psychologists, and they actually really hurt me. I was tired of psychologists saying to me, I don't know how to help you. Some other really frightening things that were said to me, and so I started up an agency. At our agency, we ensure training for all psychologists, we have team meetings, we have supervision for all because people need to follow their ethics, people need to be strong and competent in what they're doing, so we have a really high standard at our agency. And thankfully, everyone is up to that challenge of the high standard because there are things that need to change in this world when it comes to counseling. And I'm going to be that catalyst for change. 

Shelby 03:42

And that's so important. And I think that people also don't realize that, you know, sometimes the therapists, the psychologists, whatever kind of profession in that field, it may be, they also need to support in order to be the best that they can for their clients as well. I can only imagine, and kind of as you briefly mentioned before, the stories that they have to hear from their clients, the traumas that they help them kind of rebuild, and how that has a personal effect on them as well. And just even from my personal experience, having or finding that support in either a psychologist or a counselor or whatever it may be, can be one of the most difficult things that a person can do because, you know, depending on what you're needing that support with and then help with, it may be several sessions just to scrape the surface of why you're there, just to find out that they're not the right fit, and you have to go back to the drawing board, and kind of you're constantly reliving and just scraping that scab of traumas and things that are going on in your life and never really getting it fully healed and just letting it fester while you do your big journey but…

Jenn 05:02 

Exactly. Well, you're exactly right. At our agency, and most agencies, they do have 20-minute consults. But in those 20-minute consults, it's important to ask lots of questions, to ask what their training is, to ask what their background is, what their specialties are. I think it's also important to ask, because, like you were saying, ask a psychologist what they do for their mental health. My clinical director, Michelle, at the agency, she is big on teaching everyone that you, as a psychologist, you are the tool, like when you go to a hairdresser, the tool is the scissors, right? Yeah, but we are the tool. And we have our own traumas, we get into this because we are rescuers by nature, we want to help. But that hurt for a lot of psychologists. And so I strongly recommend, and I think most of my psychologists attend therapy themselves. We call it countertransference. And so we get triggered in session, if you're talking about your mom or your dad, I have stuff with my mom and dad, and then maybe I get triggered, right? And then I can't do as good of a job. So it's incredibly important that psychologists themselves go to a psychologist as well, because we can't solve our problems ourselves. I remember clients have laughed at me and said, why, it's like, you can't solve your problems yourself. No, I absolutely can't. No one can. And so I regularly see a psychologist, I have counselors here that also regularly see a psychologist. Because, yes, the load is very heavy. As you get more experienced in the field, you do learn to leave it all behind. It gets easier as time goes on. And I've gotten to that point that I can absolutely leave everything behind. But in the beginning, that's tough. But you also have to work on your own stuff. If what I say to my psychologists is, if you can't see it in yourself, your unhealthy coping mechanisms, or whatever it may be, you are never going to see that in a client, and you'll never be able to fix that in a client, if you can't see it in yourself. So I believe that all psychologists need to go to therapy, unfortunately, all don't. And to me, that seems a little hypocritical. But I believe it's incredibly important for people to take care of their own health, if they're working with the health of other people as well. 

Shelby 07:16

Absolutely, it's so important and like, kind of coming around full circle being in the profession, in general, your kind of calling in life is that support role you want to be there. So I am sure that there are a lot of psychologists and counselors and others in that field that are very empathetic by nature, and they kind of will bring in and hold on to that client energy and everybody needs that little bit of a safe space, or that third party that doesn't know all the details to just be able to put all that extra emotion from kind of pulling in from clients and their stories and being able to bottle that up and or not bottle it up, I guess but deal with it, manage it and you know, kind of be productive and healthy. In a sense, I feel like the mental health aspect is extremely overlooked, especially in the world of entrepreneurship, small businesses, owning, running, managing multiple streams of income, whatever it may be, we all think that we can take it all on, deal with it all ourselves, we're all kind of that focused on the money hungry and worried about the physical health of our business. And then the secondary health of ourselves. But that's from most of the people I talked to is very low on the list. And then the mental health aspect to it is even lower than that 90% of the time, if not more, but just the importance of having that. Not even like people have business coaches, right, they get those people to help them kind of guide through their business, what the plan is, how to set their goals realistically, and so on and so forth. But on top of that, a business coach can only take you so far. And they are focused mainly on the business, the financials, the numbers, the progress, where the entrepreneurs and the small business owners overlook the importance of actually having a psychologist or a counselor or somebody in the mental health field where they can actually discuss things a little more openly and freely without the judgment of their business reputation coming into play and leading into a whole new tailspin of anxieties and overwhelm that come from that. So yeah.

Jenn 09;37

Exactly. I have business coaches, and I think they are absolutely wonderful and they have helped me with my business. But nothing has helped me scale my business and getting my mental health in check. I opened this business January 2020. I was pregnant. The world shut down two months later, it was…

Shelby 09:56

Great time.

Jenn 09:57

The last few years have been pretty awful. I will be honest, being a business owner during a pandemic is not something you wish on your greatest enemy. My husband lost his job, we had a two-and-a-half-year-old who could not go to daycare anymore. My husband… long story short, couldn't do his job… like it was just impossible for him to do during the pandemic. So he took care of our daughter in the basement, and I worked my butt off to save our business up on the main floor, seeing as many clients as I could all that kind of stuff, had my baby in July 2020, took a month off, completely stepped away for the business for a month and then went right back into it in August, and it has been a tailspin, I'll be completely honest, the last few years, I… long story short, I9 found out my body doesn't actually produce vitamin B. So I'm getting my mental health in check and my naturopath has been my saving grace lately. But I've worked a lot on my inner game, I will call it a lot of business owners who want to scale and nothing will help you scale more than getting your emotional and mental health in check. My business is starting to scale more, because I'm getting my mental health and emotional health in check. I'm figuring everything out when it comes to an emotional standpoint of running a business, management, all of that. And because of that, my business is really starting to work. I forget what the quote is exactly, but it's like 90 - 95% of businesses fail in the first five years. And I completely understand why. But since I have got my emotional and mental health game in check, things have changed. And so in my opinion, you cannot be a healthy business owner, you cannot scale properly if you do not get your emotional and mental health in check. It just becomes a panic frantic rat race and it does not need to be that way. I have been there, 100% I have been there, but it does not need to be that way. 

Shelby 12:06

Exactly. And I think people are constantly looking when they're at that awkward moment of growth where they're like… I need to scale or I'm gonna fall down, like there is no in-between, that they only focus on the how do I get more clients? How do I gain more revenue coming in? How can I sell more products or my services, and they're looking at it through the eye of I guess, a corporate lens in a sense where it's all about the money, it's the numbers on the spreadsheet, it's the transactions, but they don't look at the inner work and the holistic work that needs to go into themselves to be able to have that clear vision and that healthy vision and just healthy internal processes that go along with it. I think the mental health and the mindset and the internal body work and mind work gets extremely overlooked in the entrepreneurial world. I know, a good portion of the entrepreneurs that I know today were once in a completely different area in the corporate sector, whether that was healthcare, oil and gas construction, trades work, anything along those lines, but they go into it with a mindset of it’s business, and they don't think that themselves as a person holistically have as big of an impact on their business as they do. 

Jenn 13:33

Yes, exactly. And just like Michelle, my clinical director says that, as a psychologist, you are the tool. That's the same thing with being an entrepreneur. You are the one that's doing the work. And it's going to catch up to you if you don't pay attention, if you don't take care of yourself. I had a pretty awful summer, I'm pretty open about my life. Like there there just doesn't need to be shame, like life is life, right? We all struggle but I was flat on my back most of the summer. Again, like I found out my body does not produce vitamin B correctly. So I'm getting adrenal shots because I've had everything from fatty liver disease, adrenal fatigue, low iron, low vitamin B, you name it. I've had all of that and literally I wasn't able to stay awake each day, and so I would nap each day. I'm finally feeling better. My naturopath again has been my saving grace. That's what entrepreneurs need is a team around them, and I will never ever let go of my team ever again. I will stay in therapy. I will stay in contact with my naturopath, all of that, but I can promise you it is not worth it. The money is not worth it. I have never been more thankful for my health and my family it scared me this summer because I pushed and pushed and pushed so hard and was anxious and needing to make sure I had the money, and needing to provide the best life for my family and all these things, right? But that is not what this is about. What they talk about nowadays for young entrepreneurs I’ll say, is it's not about money, so much as it is about time. Like, I get to pick up my daughter every day at school at 2.30, that is more of a blessing to me than having 1000s of dollars in my bank account, right, like time with my family, the ability to go to an appointment with my naturopath during the middle of the afternoon, or whatever it may be. That, to me is what matters. Yes, I absolutely want to create wealth for my family, and all of that, but if you do not take care of yourself, you're gonna end up flat on your face like I did. The only way to be successful is to take care of yourself, because you are the one that is in charge of everything, you're at the top of it all. And if you aren't healthy, your business won’t be healthy, and I've seen that clearly in my life. 

Shelby 16:04

And it's so true, like just kind of circling back to where we started with that when I kind of started this virtual administrative journey that I'm on now, I had finished, like 16 years in oil and gas, and you and I have kind of had a few conversations on Instagram and in meetings and stuff about this. But just being in such a wild and unpredictable environment for such a long time and really getting into supporting high-level executives right out of the gate after I'd finished my education and administration. Not setting healthy boundaries for myself and going right in as being like the yes man to everything and anything that people would ask of me, turning into like that 24/7 executive assistant that's working on salary and not going anywhere. But it too had led to a point where my health had taken like a huge turn before I'd gotten into this virtual reality of administration, pretty much. My kidneys were on the verge of shutting down, my liver, my cortisol levels were like off the charts. But like you, thank God for natural paths and being able to figure out that like, perfect little vitamin mixture that just replaced any type of prescriptions that I was taking at the time, and you feel so much better and healthier, but at the time, you don't realize people talk about burnout all the time. They talk about what the signs and the symptoms are, but when you get to a point of being so burnt out, you're just running on empty and fumes all the time it gets to be your blinders are on to your own well-being and mental health, and in the end, I too fell flat on my face for a couple months wondering if like, am I going back to school? Is this where I want to be? What do I wanna do with my life, and you just hit a hole, like a wall at a certain point in your life where you're like, I need to really switch gears here, or this path is just going to be a nasty couple of years coming up. But, I guess, yeah, it's wild. But with that, what are some things that female entrepreneurs or business owners just in general, can do to prioritize their mental health while trying to scale a successful business? Yeah, like I said, you have to have a team around you.

Jenn 18:33

Yeah, like I said, you have to have a team around you. I had a personal trainer for a while. That helped me lose a bunch of weight I had to lose. I lost about 20 pounds in order to fix my fatty liver because I emotionally ate for the last three years. I did not deal well with things. My psychologist was mainly online during the pandemic. And it just was not helpful. I couldn't get anything from online therapy, so I did not have a team around me. I'm now seeing a different psychologist because I'm dealing with like business and parenting and like all that kind of stuff. 

Shelby 19.10

Newer aspects with life too…

Jenn 19:18

Exactly and I see her regularly, and when I don't have a session booked with her, I can tell. And so I book regularly with her now, even if things are going well, because I need that constant support. I need to see my naturopath regularly. I also had cortisol levels that were through the frickin roof, like you name it I had it. And so if I don't have that team around me like a personal trainer, a naturopath, a psychologist, I am again going to fall flat on my face. I'm feeling great now. Things have changed pretty quickly, and in like about three months it took for things to go from not being able to stay awake during the day to feeling great. And yes, I understand that that takes money. I absolutely do. And like, that's the great thing about being an entrepreneur. But if you want more money, you have to take care of your health, you need to be able to talk about it, you need to be able to surround yourselves with like-minded people. I have a new friend that I've made recently, and she's an entrepreneur as well. And she has big ambitions like me, and I'm able to share all my fears, regardless of how silly they sound. I just text her everything that's in my brain. I don't even tell my husband everything that's in my brain because he doesn't get it. Not a mom. He's not a business owner, all those kinds of things, but this woman is a mom, she's a, she's a business owner, she's a high functioning entrepreneur, all these things. And so you have to have people in your corner, just like a boxer has people in their corner, they have, you know, the people that clean up their wounds, or give them water or coach, like they have all these people in their corner. Yeah. And they can’t fight if they don't have people in their corner. And so I think it's totally possible to scale and be that high-functioning executive. But you can't do it if you're not taking care of your health. Like I talked to the CEO of Calgary Counseling Center, the biggest agency here in Calgary that I'm modeling myself after a bit, and her exercises in the morning that she does on the treadmill, or whatever it may be is non-negotiable. She knows nobody can bump that for a meeting, no one can bother her during that time. And I for a while I was doing that exercising regularly that my health got so bad this summer, I couldn't do it. But there are things that need to be non-negotiable in your life, a healthy diet, whatever it may be, those things have to be non-negotiable in your life. Again, I very much understand that that takes money, but that is a perk of your business. And so you need to use your money wisely. If you are going to scale, you have to do it properly.

22:09 Shelby

Absolutely. It is so important. And I think like I mentioned several times, it's so overlooked by entrepreneurs. And really, I have a true, like, mantra that you know, it does take money to make money, and you need to know these areas of your business and your personal life and your personal health. And find these areas of non-negotiables like you were mentioning where you have to spend this money, invest in these personal development courses, invest in yourself and having a great journal that gets you excited to look at it's got a great texture, it's got a great feel it's got great prompts in it and actually gets you excited to do your morning journaling or your evening meditation before you go to bed. But being able to, you know, invest and actually plan out and find where those areas really need to be, have some plugs I guess put in where there may be some leaks and things, but it is so important to even schedule in like half an hour, 45 minutes out of your day where it is… your team knows that hey, I'm unavailable right now, this is when I do my meditation, my reflection, my weekly planning whatever it may be, but having that time and then staying consistent with it, which I know is one thing that we can all probably relate to, is just keeping consistent with these new things that we're trying to incorporate into our life to try and make things easier. I know I've been in several places where I'm like, okay, I'm on a really good journaling roll right now. It's been three weeks and then something sneaks its way into my calendar, and then everything kind of falls off the rails for a couple of months I'll say, I slowly realized that man, through those couple of months where I wasn't consistent with my journaling. I truly noticed a change in my mood, how my mind was organized during my days, how I was able to complete tasks on time, all the things, but it is one of those things you really have to prioritize that personal development, that personal growth and that personal just raw hell.

Jenn 24:27

Yes, and that's the thing like we are in, we're in charge of our calendar. Like that's what I've come to realize, is like, I'm in charge of my calendar; if I can't meet someone for another two weeks, because I have my naturopath appointment at that time that I can't move or whatever it may be, that's fine. We don't have to be like I think the entrepreneur world is very much known for being frantic, male or female. 

Shelby 24:51

Like have to say yes to every opportunity, right? Or you're gonna miss out.

Jenn 25:00

Yeah, and you don't need to say yes to every opportunity. I'm a big believer in like, the universe brings you things that are going to help. And you, you're not going to miss out on what the universe has for you, you can absolutely self-sabotage yourself and hurt yourself, but you're not going to miss out on what the universe has for you. I think trust is a big thing as a business owner, like, yes, you have to build your business strategically and I have very much built it in a strategic manner. I have people under me that take care of a lot of work that

I just frankly, don't have time for. There's too much else on my plate. But I think we need to change the belief, the mindset of like, go go, go and hustle and chase the sale and chase the dream. But I think if we just sit back and trust that everything will be okay, like I took two months off, I didn't talk really to any of my counselors this summer, and my business finally took off with me stepping back. And so I think that that was one of the most valuable lessons that I've ever learned as an entrepreneur, that we can trust that things are going to be okay. 

Shelby 26:09Yes. And I feel like we are so caught up in the anxiety and the overwhelm of if I step away, everything is going to crash and burn, and it's all going to fall apart. And me being on for two weeks is in three months of cleanup, just to get back to where I was. And really building that strong team, whether it's in kind of your personal self-care world, whether naturopaths, things like that, psychologists, or if it's in the business world, where you've got a virtual assistant, you've got project managers, in your case counselors and things, knowing that they've got their roles and responsibilities, everybody has their place what they need to do, and just really taking that almost leap of faith, I guess you could call it the first time around where it's like, I'm gonna step back, and I'm really gonna say, you're all educated, and we're all adults, and we know what we're doing, and I'm going to shut down for a few days, and I'll check back in when I'm back where I need to be. But we're so terrified that that is just an impossible dream that we can achieve as entrepreneurs, when really that's the whole point, most of the time on why we got started was to be able to grow to a point where we can step back and have things automate and run themselves while we can enjoy life a bit more. 

Jenn 27:35

Yep, exactly. Yeah, that's the goal. And if you don't do that, you're going to be forced to do that. That's what happened to me. 

Shelby 27:44

Yeah, exactly. So I know that you started off kind of seeing patients and clients and things like that in your world, and you're in the transformative period of stepping back a bit more and kind of doing more of the education on mental health, so what do you think are… what do you see as the benefits of providing more education on the mental health sphere, either in Alberta, or Canada and North America as a whole? 

Jenn 28:12

Yeah. I love seeing clients, and I still work with some of my long-term clients that I've been seeing for, oh, goodness, I can't even count now like eight, nine years, I've been seeing clients, right? Like, life happens, and we need to stick with someone that's supportive. But I think what's been interesting about the pandemic is it highlighted mental health. And so I think that that's a beautiful thing that we can see coming out of the pandemic… there was I’ll say some good that came out of the pandemic, but unfortunately, we have a mental health crisis. But right now we are okay, talking about mental health. That's what I find interesting is since the pandemic, they'll talk about mental health on the news now, they… people in conversation will talk about mental health. But people are still not taking action. 

Shelby 29.06

Yeah.

Jenn 29:08

That's what's frustrating. I'm very thankful that we can talk about it now that it is safe and normal in a sense, to talk about mental health, but people still aren't taking action. Like some of my friends are nervous about couples counseling, because doesn't that mean I'm going to get a divorce Jen? No, that doesn't mean you're gonna get a divorce. If you don't go to couples counseling, you are gonna get a divorce. And so there's still a lot of, I don't know what the word is, like stigma, stigma, I know… 

Shelby 29:41

…the taboo almost. 

Jenn 29:46

… but like, people are afraid to go to counseling, and I get it, I've been there… my first appointment like… I can still remember fighting and fighting and fighting the fact that I knew I had to go to therapy. I was in my early 20s and I knew I had to go, but I was scared. I knew I wanted to be a psychologist. But I was still scared, right? And I'm still trying to figure out what that change needs to be. I think we just need to talk more about it like, talk about like, going to see a psychologist is normal… we go to see our doctor, we go to see our naturopath… like a psychologist is no different part of the journey. And so that's why I'm wanting to step out into an education role, is we still need to talk more about it. It needs to be even more normalized. Yes, it became a more normalized thing to talk about during the pandemic, and afterward now. But I still see people that are not taking action, I still see my friends, I see relatives, whoever it may be, that are not taking action, that need to get themselves into therapy, that need to get their child into therapy, and are not doing so. It's okay to talk about their mental health, but it's still not okay to get into therapy, and so I'm really wanting to change that. I'm really wanting to change how we talk about it in the corporate world, I'm really wanting to get in with larger companies and talk about… you need to set aside, you know, benefits or money or whatever, so your staff can go to a psychologist or whatever it may be. I met with the NDP last summer, so 2022, to help them roll out their plan for universal mental health care for the election. Unfortunately, I found out a few weeks before the election, they weren't going to roll that out… that was a pretty devastating day for me because I thought finally change is gonna happen. But even the government isn't willing to go there quite yet. And I get that it's an expensive endeavor, but if anytime was right to roll out universal mental health care, it was after the pandemic, because there's such a crisis and such a need for it. And so I still don't know what it is, that is going to help people get in the door… we're now finally talking about it because so many people die from suicide, the divorce rate and infidelity rate we're seeing at the agency is through the roof… I've never seen anything like it. So yeah, I want to get into these businesses and start talking. I'm not sure what needs to change. But something needs to change. And we're gonna get to the bottom of it through education somehow. 

Shelby 32:16

And I love that and I feel like especially going into the corporate sphere of things and kind of getting those bigger companies that provide up to a certain amount, which is maybe enough to cover three sessions, maybe a bit more depending on what level of psychological support you may need. Obviously, sometimes, counselors can be more affordable than psychotherapists and different scales and models, but being able to provide a healthy amount of support where the employee doesn't have to feel like I have to squeeze 20 years of life traumas and difficulties into three sessions, and hope to god cross all my fingers that I'm going to get the either results I'm looking for, or at least a handful of tools that work, that I can utilize when I come into difficult situations. But it's never enough, and personally coming from corporate and being on the side of salaried employee and a contractor, it is never easy. Like I said, whatever salary benefits you do get are never enough to do anything of true value health-wise, whether it's vision, dental, prescription, mental health, chiro, physio, you name it. And then on the other hand, as entrepreneurs and small business owners, we are not salaried employees most of the time, we have to pay out of pocket, or if we've gotten to a successful place the business will pay for benefits or you can use that as an expense or whatnot but it's never enough, and that was always the struggle…is you get so excited, like yes, I've got benefits, but then you look into the fine print of everything and it's like you might as well just not have offered me benefits in the first place because you're paying more into them even if it's only 50% than what you'd actually get out of them. So yeah, I completely…  having those conversations is so important, and to be able to either boost up those or have companies be able to provide like mental health days for their workers that aren't like one or two a year which do nothing, or just any type of seminar support, or here we've got a psychologist is coming in for the day. Everybody gets an hour session or 45 minutes to chat with them real quick, and if you need additional support, we’ll help you out, but there's so much more that we can be doing in the corporate world, and I feel like corporate mental health is really undervalued, and people don't see, depending on the industry… what the struggles are and how many people are like doing self-medication outside of work, because it's so stressful, or they're leading into drinking problems or other addiction problems, and it just ends up snowballing to a point where that person gets to be unemployed, they're on short term disability, and that may turn to long term disability, and then they're just almost useless to the workforce at that point, and… which is just so unfortunate to see that there's not enough support to get people that additional help… like don't get me wrong, there's support but not the right and the right amount to be offered to people. 

Jenn 35:57

And that's exactly it. Like when you talk about the return on investment in the report I wrote for the NDP, if workers are taking care of, absenteeism goes down, sickness goes down, even hospitalization rates for like, cold and flu go down. Like it changes society. If people's mental health is taken care of, yes, it takes several years for us to see this change, but if people's mental health are taking care of the ROI is huge. And so it's just, it's fascinating to me that companies don't invest in that.

Shelby 36:35

I would see it that way. It's either they're not seeing it that way, or they haven't been shown it in that way. And I feel like you going into the more of the education field of mental health, that would be an amazing point to really bat home because really, the statistics are all there. I think every time there's some kind of a census that gets done either on the municipal, provincial, or federal level here, that it's always, uh, oh, workers are getting sicker, and like, companies are claiming bankruptcy, and there's just like that output/input isn't balanced. But if they do take care of not only the physical well-being… I know, there's companies out there who will give you like gym memberships, or you get discounts to do excursions and bam, for get outside, I know, NBC doctors are able to now prescribe National Park passes as like a prescription that you can use to get out in nature and kind of boost that mental health aspect, but things like that are great, but when it comes to that mental health side, too, it's just lacking. But really, if people are healthy, they've got that extra time even those four-hour workweeks that are starting to be implemented over in Europe and stuff… companies have been coming back saying we have doubled, tripled, our revenue in this year, and we have cut down the amount of working hours that we're doing because our employees and our contractors are excited to come to work. They're happy, they're energized, because they've gotten that six hours of family time instead of maybe the hour and a half at night that they get with their families, and being able to socialize with their friends and just have this better outlook on life. So one of my biggest things would be that would be great to have here. Yeah. 

Jenn 38:27

And entrepreneurs need to know that. Yes. Yeah. Like if entrepreneurs, I think figured that out, and I think I'm figuring that out, is, I need to invest financially in to buy psychologists, and so today we're having like just a connecting time where we're just hanging out I'm going to like… I found this new bakery here in Calgary, and it's like really fancy doughnuts. really fancy cookies… like it's just, it makes people feel good, right? So, I'm going to pick those up today and we're doing a team-building event. We're all going bowling at Banquet next Friday and like, we have team-building events every quarter… the more I invest into my psychologists, the greater the business grows. And so we have to invest in the care of our employees…it has to happen. 

Shelby 39:18

And I think that's one of the things too that gets overlooked a lot, is that okay, I've got this team now, I just have to manage them, and micromanage or run them, and filter everything through, but nobody sees like the personal relationship building that goes into building a business as well, and the impact that those little things, like even you know, the staff members birthdays this day, you send them a quick e-card or you get them like a little $5 Starbucks card, something… it doesn't have to be huge or expensive by any means. But even those little gestures just to show that hey, I appreciate you, and really showing that appreciation and compassion. Recognition for their work, and just bonding together on more of an emotional relationship personal level rather than it being constantly business. Like I'm sure when you have your team building exercises, there may be a little bit of shop talk, but for the most part, it's like, how's your family? How was your summer? How was so and so's wedding? What are you doing this weekend like, things like that, and I feel that's one of the biggest parts too that can just be something that the average person in the office can do to kind of boost somebody else's mental health, outside of any kind of additional supports, I feel that kindness gets kind of brushed under the rug a lot nowadays… we're such a fast-moving society. And we want instant gratification and instant results and like, go go go, and there's no time to stop and… taking that moment to just say… hey, thanks for doing that. Or, hey, I appreciate you getting this to me before our kind of scheduled deadline. You know, it doesn't have to be expensive gestures or support that you go through, but really kind words can make the world of a difference in somebody's day too.

Jenn 41:12

I think people want to be seen, right? And if you see them as a boss, as the entrepreneur, I think that goes a long way. 

Shelby 41:22

Yeah, exactly. You want to have that nice balance of leadership, I guess more so than that boss mentality. I think in just the world of business in the last probably 15/20 years, it has really shifted from being transactional, we're counting the number of sales, you know, if you don't hit this level, then you're kind of, you know, knocked down a couple of notches where now it's the building the relationships, getting to know people on those levels, really connecting and showing that appreciation and starting from that point of, I guess, compassionate selling or soul-selling as some people may like to call it, but it's taken a huge turn and just in the world of business, I think those appreciative… and they're free. Like, things that will make somebody's day that are free. You really can't beat that. So why not just sprinkle the free compliments everywhere? 

Jenn 42:27

Yeah, I would agree completely. 

Shelby 42:32

Oh, it has been so great chatting with you, Jen, I've got one last question that I'd actually like to ask you, but what advice would you give to female entrepreneurs or business owners who may be struggling with their mental health right now and are kind of on the fence about seeking help? 

Jenn 42:53

Mm hmm. I think it's sad that people in general, I'll say have a lot of shame about talking about their struggles. I think that women especially struggle with that. They carry all the hats. They're the mom, they're the wife, they're the house cleaner. They're the cooker, right? They're the boss, they have all the hats. And it is impossible to do all those things, well, no one can, and I think if you are going to try to do those all well and perfect, that again, you're going to fall flat on your face. And so what advice would I give that? It's such a hard question, because I'm so used to being a psychologist, right? That, for me psychology is just really, it's just such a normal thing. 

Shelby 43:41

You guys are on a different path. 

Jenn 43: 45

But there is no shame in asking for help. Life is hard enough, and we should never have to do life alone. I don't believe that the world was made so that we struggle alone. I am a huge believer in community. And community is what fills our cup, and in order for you to scale, you need that support. There is no shame in saying, I have a psychologist. I have a naturopath I have a business coach. Right? They're one in the same. I'm not sure where it went wrong that for some reason, it's okay to have a business coach but not a psychologist in your corner. They're one in the same. And so they're like, again, it comes back to there is no shame. No one is perfect. Everyone has weaknesses. And the more we talk about those weaknesses and bring them out to the light, the less shame that we will have. And so I think it's just about making that decision. You don't even have to tell anyone you're making that decision… that's between you and your counselor. And you just slowly start to seek support. It's going to radically change your life. I think it's completely okay to be anxious about it, but it's pushing through that fear. I told myself at the beginning, or I guess the end of last year, I'm going to walk towards anything that causes me fear, I'm not going to try to run from fear, like I've done in the past. And I think it's okay, even in the first session, lots of clients would say to me, like, I'm really scared to be here… I don't know what to talk about. And it's the job of the psychologist to lead the session, to figure out what's going on, and kind of pull those things together. It's not the client's job to figure it all out. That's why you're hiring a psychologist to do it. And so it's okay to put it all on the psychologists and say, I don't even know what to talk about today. I know I'm stressed out, but I don't know what is stressing me out. I'm scared to be here. Whatever it may be, I think it's okay to put that all on the psychologists for them to try and figure it out. You just need to show up and be your authentic self. And that's where change happens.

Shelby 45:50

That's absolutely beautiful. That resonated with me at the beginning, I started getting like goosebumps and stuff, and I'm like, don't tear up, don't tear up, don't tear up.

Jenn 46:02

But it's okay to tear up, right? We all grew up in life, I know. 

Shelby 46:07

But I was like, you know, what is a safe space, if I end up crying, oh, my podcast with a great psychologist and everything here. Then you know what… I'm doing alright, and the whole beauty of this is being vulnerable and really knowing that you're not alone in this venture, this journey, whatever you may want to call it, that there are countless people out there that are going through same or similar situations. As cliche as this sounds, as I'm actually talking about it now,but really, we're not alone, whether you think that you may be in the worst place of your life because you're hitting a bad time in your business, or you may be struggling with some family issues, or, you know, you're stuck in a housing crisis and trying to find out what your next move is, there is always somebody and there's always light at the tunnel to get out. There’s always dark moments, and you know, as entrepreneurs and business owners, we may think we're immune, we get on such an adrenaline rush when things are going great. We're making profits, we're selling services or products, we're doing all the things, and then we get that one thing that veers us right off in a different direction, and we think that our whole world is coming to an end… we start questioning why we did this, should we go insolvent, should we claim bankruptcy, all the things… I go from one extreme to the other in my head, and I know for a fact that I am probably not alone in the entrepreneurial world about that, where it's the complete overwhelm pendulum swing, but knowing that others…

Jenn 47:47

…but the more we care of our mental health and our emotional health in that, the less pendulum swing there will be…

Shelby 47:53

Yes, they get smaller, farther apart and the business will be more stable. Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah. And that is the beauty about this journey of entrepreneurship, you never know what's going to happen and just gotta learn… 

Jenn 48:11

…it's okay to cry your eyes out too every night. 

Shelby 48:18

Exactly, cry in the bathtub every night. Who knows?

Jenn 48:22

When they're done that, and that's okay. 

Shelby 48:25

I for one have been known to go to the mountains and hopefully find a nice quiet hike and just scream at the top of my lungs and hope to God nobody calls stars but… whatever.

Jenn 48:37

And that's a healthy choice to do. You have to get your emotions out. I think that's so helpful. 

Shelby 48:41

It is, and we all need to release those emotions every once in a while because you bottle those up for too long. Some people are really great at holding on to that bottle for a long time before it pops, others not so much… avoiding that.. being a huge explosion is the goal, and being able to even let off a little bit of steam every once in a while and just decompress that bottle a bit. It does wonders. But thank you so much Jenn, for being here today. This has been such a lovely conversation. I enjoy you thoroughly. As I mentioned before in some other messages, I will probably be coming to utilize your services and definitely have you and the Calgary Counseling Institute at the top of my mind for anybody who's seeking some additional support. But thank you so much for being here with me and for this lovely episode. I appreciate you so much. 

Jenn 48:40 

Thanks, Shelby. I appreciate it.

Shelby 50:00

What an amazing episode we had today and thank you again so much to Jenn Betts of the Calgary Institute of Counseling for joining us today and sharing all this great information regarding mental health and the entrepreneurship journey and how it is so important to take care of yourself first. Now, you can check out more information about Jenn at her website at counseling institute.ca and on her social media links that are listed down below. If you haven't already, everyone, I would greatly appreciate it if you liked, subscribed, and followed “She's Got This: A Journey to Success” on all of the major platforms such as Google podcasts, Apple podcasts, Amazon music, and Spotify. Thank you again so much for being here and we'll see you next time.