Michael Davern talks with Jason Barnard about end-to-end AI marketing enablement.

Michael Davern, CEO and Co-Founder of Incept, talks with Jason Barnard about how AI becomes exponentially more valuable with training, the shift from time-based billing to outcome-focused work, and why reps—just like in marketing—are key to getting reliable results.

Michael shares how Incept uses AI to speed up research, streamline client deliverables, and enable teams to focus on the 20% of work they truly excel at. He compares AI to an intern that, when trained well, becomes a high-performing digital team member capable of scaling capacity without hiring new full-time staff.

Michael Davern and Jason Barnard also discuss the risk of relying blindly on automation, the importance of internal policy and oversight, and the human-centered future of work. For Michael, AI does not replace people—it empowers them to be more creative, strategic, and human.

What you’ll learn from Michael Davern

00:00 Michael Davern and Jason Barnard

03:04 Why is the Brand SERP Result for Michael Davern Not Showing up in Google According to Jason Barnard?

03:19 Why, According to Jason Barnard, Does Google Think the Scientist is More Famous Than Michael Davern?

03:42 What Did Jason Barnard Do to Make the Name Michael Davern Appear in the Search Results?

03:52 What Does Michael Davern Need to Make Himself Appear as a Super Expert in AI Marketing?

04:18 What Does AI Marketing Mean?

04:55 What Qualifies as AI Versus Simple Automation or Workflow?

05:29 Why Did the Tech World Used to Be Strict About Distinguishing AI, Machine Learning, and Automation?

05:56 What Should a Business Leader Do When They Do Not Have Time to Implement Marketing Tasks Themselves?

06:17 Where Should a Business Leader Start to Guide Their Team Toward Strategies That Help the Business?

06:29 What Role Can AI Play in Helping Users Improve Workflows?

06:56 Why is it Helpful to Regularly Explore and Experiment With Evolving AI Tools?

07:16 What Tasks Cannot Be Automated but Could Be Handled by an Intern or Entry-Level Employee?

07:37 What is the First Step in Training Your AI Assistant to Handle Entry-Level Tasks Effectively?

07:45 Why is Research a Good Starting Point When Delegating Tasks to Your AI Assistant?

07:54 What is a Smart Way for CEOs to Begin Integrating AI Into Their Team Workflow?

08:10 What Makes Comparing AI to an Entry-Level Intern a Helpful Mindset for Business Leaders Adopting AI?

08:30 Why Do Many Businesses Hesitate to Adopt AI Despite Its Long-Standing Presence in Everyday Life?

08:59 What Can Business Leaders Learn by Creating a Custom GPT?

09:26 What Happens When You Customize AI Settings to Match Your Communication Style?

09:47 How Do AI Interactions Improve Over Time as the Agent Learns Your Preferences?

10:22 Why is it Easier to Accept Criticism From a Machine Than From a Person?

11:20 What Are Some Practical Ways to Start Using AI in Marketing?

12:20 What Does Effective Research Look Like When Working With AI Tools?

13:13 What Happens When You Interact With AI in a More Conversational Way?

14:30 What Are the Different Ways to Use AI for Research and Competitive Analysis in Business Strategy?

15:31 Why is AI Considered a Time-Saver in Fast-Paced Business Environments?

16:11 How Can You Make AI-Generated Results More Reliable?

17:27 What Steps Are Involved in Effectively Training an AI Model to Deliver Helpful Results?

18:14 What Are the Risks of Relying Entirely on AI Without Incorporating Human Input?

19:01 Why Might There Be Pushback on AI From People Who Fear Losing Their Jobs?

21:13 How is AI Enabling Businesses to Shift From Hourly Billing to Outcome-Based Pricing Models?

This episode was recorded live on video May 27th 2025

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29F5ooFZ_3Y

Links to pieces of content relevant to this topic:Michael Davern

Transcript from Michael Davern with Jason Barnard on Fastlane Founders And Legacy. End-to-End AI Marketing Enablement

[00:00:00] Jason Barnard: There may be pushback on AI because people are frightened of losing their jobs because they don't see that as an option. They think if I automate all of this with AI, I lose my job. 

[00:00:14] Michael Davern: And some people will. There's just some things that happen that are going to be automated to a point where it's done as well or better than a person can do it.

[00:00:23] Michael Davern: I think I might have already mentioned, like what I told you yesterday is different than an hour. So we've gotta make sure we're on top of that as well. But that is more about still the 80 20 rule. and one of our core values is always be on the better side of 20. So it's really easy for me to talk in those 80 20, but if 20% of your job is what you love doing, and a lot of it, the rest of it is either monotonous or just something I have to do well, you don't have to do that.

[00:00:49] Michael Davern: There's automation. There's AI learning that's going to get better. And better for us to be able to have that more monotonous part of your position, not be something you have to do, and it's going help us scale 

[00:00:59] Narrator: Fastlane Founders and Legacy with Jason Barnard. Each week, Jason sits down with successful entrepreneurs, CEOs and executives, and get them to share how they mastered the delicate balance between rapid growth and enduring success in the business world.

[00:01:16] Narrator: How can we quickly build a profitable business that stands the test of time and becomes their legacy? A legacy we're proud of. Fastlane Founders and Legacy with Jason Barnard. 

[00:01:28] Jason Barnard: Hi everybody, and welcome to another edition of Fastlane Founders and Legacy. I'm Jason Barnard, and a quick hello and we're good to go.

[00:01:37] Jason Barnard: Welcome to the show, Michael Davern.

[00:01:43] Michael Davern: Thank you, Jason. I can promise you this is the first time I've ever been serenaded as an intro into a podcast. 

[00:01:50] Jason Barnard: Yeah. I think that a lot of people say that to me. And the nice thing is that I started doing this in 2019, so that's six years I've been singing the intro and I recently became the lead singer in a band, and I've got better at singing.

[00:02:05] Jason Barnard: So if anybody listens to the very first episode and then this one, even in that short piece of singing, I think I've got better. 

[00:02:13] Michael Davern: So we don't need to go into chat and start a custom GPT for voice coaching. 

[00:02:17] Jason Barnard: No thank you. 

[00:02:18] Michael Davern: Okay. Okay. 

[00:02:19] Jason Barnard: I hope not, but some people may disagree. They might say, actually you sing in tune, but, ah, I don't like the style and I could learn some style.

[00:02:28] Jason Barnard: But that's not the point of the show today. The point of the show is end-to-end AI marketing enablement. How to use AI for your marketing efforts within your company. And Michael, you were saying that you use your own AI on your own company and then help your clients with that. So this is processes that you've created, that work. And it's what we do at Kalicube is that we apply to ourselves what we're advising our clients to do. So when we're optimizing a brand for Google and AI, it's things that we've done either for myself, Jason Barnard, or the company Kalicube. But before we get into that, I'll show you some Brand SERP.

[00:03:06] Jason Barnard: This is your Brand SERP. When we search Michael Davern in Google you don't come up. 

[00:03:14] Michael Davern: No, there's far more important people with the same name out there, man. 

[00:03:19] Jason Barnard: That's it. The guy who does come up as a public figure is a scientist of some sort. So he's on Google Scholar. That's very powerful. Relatively speaking, Google is going to think he's more famous than you are out of the box because he's on Google Scholar and it isn't that he is more famous, it's that Google understands him better, recognized in his field. And so I then added your company name, Incept. And there I get you. And I think that's what people do is if I don't get you the first time, I'll add your company name if I know it, and then I do get the result.

[00:03:52] Jason Barnard: But if I may, I really think you need a Knowledge Panel there on the right hand side to make yourself look the way you deserve, which is a super expert in AI marketing. 

[00:04:03] Michael Davern: I don't disagree with you at all, Jason. 

[00:04:07] Jason Barnard: So we're going to pick your brains on AI marketing. The first thing is, what do you mean by AI marketing?

[00:04:12] Jason Barnard: Because my initial research, I actually misunderstood, so please go ahead. Define yourself.

[00:04:17] Michael Davern: It goes everything from process to all the way, from automating tasks that we no longer should be worrying about to really going through getting deeper into insight, research, building strategy, content planning, supporting tactics, execution optimization, measurement, reporting, all the things we do in marketing. But where can we get some enablement to help us along. That's really where it is. It's to help us along. There's a lot of back and forth on the AI piece that, especially since we were allowed to talk about it officially, what was it, last? January? January one of 24. Suddenly we got to talk AI, we didn't have to say automation or machine learning.

[00:05:09] Michael Davern: We could start saying, oh yeah, we've been doing this forever and this was an automated task that we could take care of. And that's I think going back what's AI and what's not automation and workflow is not necessarily AI. You can add AI elements into the mix. 

[00:05:26] Jason Barnard: Right. No. We'd stop there so everyone can breathe.