We’re joined by Michael McAfee, President and CEO of PolicyLink, for a wide-ranging conversation on what it means to lead and carry out work that is in service to all people. We discuss the tension between individual worldviews and what evidence shows, especially when pursuing social change that is enduring, scalable, and genuinely centers people most in need. We also explore what McAfee calls a “hierarchy of human value” operating system, how to marry idealism with practicality as a leader, and what it will take to create a thriving democracy that recognizes our shared humanity.

To learn more about Evidence In Action and the Urban Institute please visit Urban.org/evidence-action-podcast.