This episode was originally recorded as part of an obscure Estonian podcast (May 2024) and became a pilot for what would become our international spin-off, SAVING & SAVORING.

We talked a bit about Mike's book The Ritual Effect, his famous research on the IKEA effect, and the relationship between money and happiness. But we also dedicated quite some time to discussing retirement savings' behaviour, trying to create a link with Mike's research.

PS Heidi was a bit starstruck and even forgot to choose the right microphone on the Zoom call. So you might hear some anxious tremble in her voice and a slight echo. But the conversation was great :)